PDA

View Full Version : Canada Post and Canada Border Services Agency



NorthOf60
04-12-2008, 01:42 AM
I just found this information and it is very interesting.

"CBSA officers may open and inspect all incoming mail, except letters weighing less than 30 g, without permission from either the sender or the addressee.

Ports of Importation for postal items are located in the following cities:

* Montréal QC
* Toronto ON
* Vancouver BC"

http://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGcustoms-e.asp#1373264

So if what it says is correct is you get any letter shipped and make sure it is less than 30g and they won't be able to touch it. This is very good info for powders, IMO. 10g of Powder in a bag in an envelope and away you go, see you no problem at all no matter where in the world it is and customs won't touch it. Sweet.

NorthOf60
04-12-2008, 02:03 AM
Found this as well on the CBSA site

"http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d5-eng.html"

Download this PDF "Canada Border Services Agency International Mail Processing System" page 6 number 30

"CBSA Mail opening policy requires the weight of the external shipping packaging be considered when determining the total weight of the mail item in order to arrive at the 30-gram limit."

So if I understand this correct the weight of the shipping container is not a part of the 30g.

Sound real good for small amounts of pills and amps. Just get your supplier to break up the packages more, probably cost more shipping but who cares. They can't open the package without your permission. If they were to open a letter that ways less then 30g not including packaging means you have a nice lawsuit. Means no problem using tracked shipping as well.

bigZ241
04-12-2008, 04:29 PM
To me I read the word "letter" and think it's not the word "package," or "parcel." Just sounds like some silly loophole so that the CBSA can search your shit.

I mean a CD with kiddy porn coming from China needs to have some method for being caught, a CD is less than 30g. I would assume this 30g rule is for a standard envelope. I may just not know my mail jargon though. would a bubble wrap envelope count as a letter or a package, how about a small cardboard box? does this difference matter?

canadianmuscle0803
05-12-2008, 12:12 PM
so Canada Post can open large parcels even if they are domestic? is that correct?

Seth
05-12-2008, 12:24 PM
They're not supposed to do that without a warrant. But anything coming from outcanada is fair game (except for those <30g envelopes apparently

canadianmuscle0803
05-12-2008, 12:30 PM
They're not supposed to do that without a warrant. But anything coming from outcanada is fair game (except for those <30g envelopes apparently

what do you mean coming from outcanada? you mean overseas?

Seth
05-12-2008, 12:47 PM
yeah, anything that passes the border is subject to inspection. So overseas, USA.. etc

canadianmuscle0803
05-12-2008, 03:36 PM
yeah, anything that passes the border is subject to inspection. So overseas, USA.. etc

ok well this isn't anything new.. i was thinking that they could open domestic packages, i was about to shit myself.

Seth
05-12-2008, 05:17 PM
the 30g thing is interesting, but I'm pretty sure 10g of test powder with its packaging in an envelope bust that 30g

srt8
06-12-2008, 06:27 AM
pretty sure labs are gonna need to import 1000 30g envelopes a month to keep operating lol

NorthOf60
09-12-2008, 03:31 PM
Found a little more information. From what I get from this is you get your stuff sent in a bubble envelope, just have them put it in a normal envelope inside. If the envelope inside weighs less then 30 grams then they can't open it without permission. Haven't found out what happens if you refuse though. Still trying to find this out.

http://www.privcom.gc.ca/information/ar/02_04_09_01_e.asp

"Opening mail - right to privacy must be first consideration

In March 2001, it was revealed that Canada Customs officials were opening mail coming into Canada and passing the information on to Citizenship and Immigration Canada. The sanctity of personal correspondence is a cornerstone of privacy, and Canadians do not expect that their letters sent through the mail will be opened by anyone except the intended recipient. We don't live in one of those countries where mail is routinely opened by the authorities-or so we thought. I immediately looked into this matter.

Many people were surprised to learn that the opening of mail by Customs is lawful, if the mail weighs over 30 grams. If it is less than 30 grams, the Customs Act prohibits opening it without either a search warrant or the addressee's consent. But as long as the mail, whether a package or personal correspondence, weighs more than 30 grams, Customs inspectors may open it if they believe that it contains contraband or false documents. Any mail considered suspicious from an immigration standpoint is turned over to immigration officials for examination and further action.

It is of great concern to me that this arbitrary and artificial weight distinction allows the opening of, not just packages, but private correspondence. Correspondence should be treated with the greatest possible respect for privacy. The weight of the correspondence should not make a difference. Sending a letter by any form of "priority post" requires placing it in a large and comparatively heavy outer envelope that by itself can often put the item in the "over 30 grams" category. A letter should not be considered any less "mail," and less deserving of privacy protection, simply because the sender wanted to ensure its timely and safe arrival, or for that matter because it's lengthy and therefore heavier.

I made these concerns known to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, and made the following recommendations

* Where Customs officials detect, in an envelope weighing more than 30 grams, a solid object that appears to be something other than correspondence, opening it would fall within the normal activities of the Customs process.
* Where no solid object is detected and an envelope is detained only on suspicion that it may contain fraudulent documents, Customs should pass the mail to Immigration unopened. Immigration could then obtain a warrant to open it if it had reasonable grounds to do so.

The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration rejected the recommendations, citing the apparent difficulty of detecting some solid objects like laminated cards in envelopes, and the great volume of mail passing through a postal facility. Essentially, she argued that implementing the recommendations would demand greatly increased resources.

Since I could not reach a consensus with the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, I turned my attention to the Minister responsible for the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency. My discussions with the Minister of National Revenue produced a resolution to this matter. Customs has modified its approach and now disregards the weight of courier-type envelopes in determining whether a mailing weighs more or less than 30 grams. Letters within such courier packages are treated as personal mail and not opened if the letters themselves are under 30 grams. I very much appreciate the National Revenue Minister's assistance in resolving this matter."

BDH
09-12-2008, 05:24 PM
Geez, I thought this woulda been common knowledge by now...

Not saying anyone is dumb, just that I heard about this many years ago and Im not exactly in the loop around here...

Benny62
09-12-2008, 05:28 PM
so the relative density (or for you old schoolers specific gravity) of 1ml vegtable/seed oil is .903 to .922 and 1 ml of pure water = 1gram .........



good info on this thanks!

gordon_18
11-12-2008, 04:40 PM
i was about to shit myself.

I already have, let it go and join me

Staffie111
11-12-2008, 04:58 PM
I just weighed some 10ml vials from different labs and they are full with caps on, they ranged from 22grms - 27grms. So if you only get 1 vial at a time youd be alright.lol So I think you could get 10grms of powder through no prob!

bluenoser
16-09-2011, 07:55 AM
I received a letter the other day from Canadian Border Services, Stating that they have a package addressed to me weighing less than 30g and require my permission to open it. If I do not reply within 30 days the will turn it over to Canada Post who will deal with it according to the Canadian Postal Regulations. So what does this mean for me? Will I be flagged for postal deliveries and searched every time I cross the border?

YYZgeddylee
16-09-2011, 03:27 PM
Send them a short notice with some legal speak in it

*Do not give permission.
"I do not consent to search, seizure or similar actions "

*Give them a direct order.
"Forward all property of BLUE NOSER without delay to 123 xyz St....."
"Failure of Canada Border Services Agency to comply with this order
will be considered malfeasance in accord with the Customs Act"

There's a reason they call them public servants. Tell them what to do.


....the name and addy are probably toast but not likely to affect border crossing.

bluenoser
17-09-2011, 06:05 AM
What happens if I just ignore the letter and wright the package off. Is there further action by Canada Post etc..

rob66679
17-09-2011, 06:17 PM
What happens if I just ignore the letter and wright the package off. Is there further action by Canada Post etc..

I don't know about further action, because I don't know anybody who's got a letter like this..... I know a few who have gotten letters asking the person on the address to sign for the package/letter and pay a "handling" fee to Border Services.... The guy ignored it, package was gone, and that was the end of it.
If I was in your situation I'd probably write it off as lost and cut my losses.

RagingRandy
17-09-2011, 09:40 PM
It seems odd to me that they would ask for permission. I believe they have the authority to inspect anything coming into Canada.

lv 426
20-09-2011, 09:47 AM
I received one othe these letters a few yrs back (anyone remember "gotwood"). I didn't reply. Never heard anything from it.

moh2010
20-09-2011, 03:26 PM
It seems odd to me that they would ask for permission. I believe they have the authority to inspect anything coming into Canada.

not under 30g. Over 30g+, they can inspect anything.

bluenoser
21-09-2011, 09:46 AM
I think I will just ignore it and see how it pans out.

JMP
21-09-2011, 10:30 AM
CBSA can inspect anything , dont be fooled .

RagingRandy
21-09-2011, 04:21 PM
I was stopped at the airport once and they demanded to see the pics on my camera. I think those would be under 30g.

JMP
21-09-2011, 04:40 PM
I used to work for a customs broker at YVR , and we inspected express mail and mail from all over the world , TRUST me when i tell you there is NOTHING they wont go through !

tony_canuck
26-09-2011, 08:55 PM
yea this sounds kinda weird, I mean if they're asking you why would anyone say yes?

and how can we change this from 30g to a minimum of 10lbs LOL

BlueSteel29
12-12-2011, 05:24 PM
I ordered from **** back in August. Half the Shipment Came but the second half was nabbed by CBSA

I got the "Envelope Less than 30 Grms"

Titled: "Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is currently in possession of a mail item addressed to you, the contents of which are unknown. "

It states: "We wish to examine the item, but the Customs Act prohibits us from opening mail items weighing thirty (30) grams or less without your permission"

it goes on: "Permission to open the item is given when you sign the bottom of this letter. After you have signed it, please fax or return this letter to the address below. If we do not recieve your permission to open the item within 30 days from the date of this letter, the mail item will be forwarded to Canada Post to be dealt with in accordance with the Regulations."

Question - Preferably people with legal experience answer.

The 30 day date has come and gone - still no package. What should I do at this point? Also - I have a planned trip out of Country in March... Does this mean I'm going to get stressed at the Border? Any Idea what I should expect? Should I even cross the Border now? Should I seek out a Lawyer as well?

Feedback Appreciated.

BD

cog
12-12-2011, 06:54 PM
Expect some attention at the border.

Mr Ontario
13-12-2011, 04:32 PM
I would not worry about it.


I ordered from **** back in August. Half the Shipment Came but the second half was nabbed by CBSA

I got the "Envelope Less than 30 Grms"

Titled: "Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is currently in possession of a mail item addressed to you, the contents of which are unknown. "

It states: "We wish to examine the item, but the Customs Act prohibits us from opening mail items weighing thirty (30) grams or less without your permission"

it goes on: "Permission to open the item is given when you sign the bottom of this letter. After you have signed it, please fax or return this letter to the address below. If we do not recieve your permission to open the item within 30 days from the date of this letter, the mail item will be forwarded to Canada Post to be dealt with in accordance with the Regulations."

Question - Preferably people with legal experience answer.

The 30 day date has come and gone - still no package. What should I do at this point? Also - I have a planned trip out of Country in March... Does this mean I'm going to get stressed at the Border? Any Idea what I should expect? Should I even cross the Border now? Should I seek out a Lawyer as well?

Feedback Appreciated.

BD

BlueSteel29
13-12-2011, 05:07 PM
Anyone Else Have experience with this? Anyone gone through the Border following one of these letters??

*bump*

Talos
13-12-2011, 05:22 PM
I got one of these today. All i ordered was some caber... dont know what i should do

theboss
13-12-2011, 08:19 PM
domestic service just seems like a way better option to me.

cog
13-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Why does anybody order from outside the country?Not worth it.

BlueSteel29
14-12-2011, 08:36 PM
I ordered from **** back in August. Half the Shipment Came but the second half was nabbed by CBSA

I got the "Envelope Less than 30 Grms"

Titled: "Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is currently in possession of a mail item addressed to you, the contents of which are unknown. "

It states: "We wish to examine the item, but the Customs Act prohibits us from opening mail items weighing thirty (30) grams or less without your permission"

it goes on: "Permission to open the item is given when you sign the bottom of this letter. After you have signed it, please fax or return this letter to the address below. If we do not recieve your permission to open the item within 30 days from the date of this letter, the mail item will be forwarded to Canada Post to be dealt with in accordance with the Regulations."

Question - Preferably people with legal experience answer.

The 30 day date has come and gone - still no package. What should I do at this point? Also - I have a planned trip out of Country in March... Does this mean I'm going to get stressed at the Border? Any Idea what I should expect? Should I even cross the Border now? Should I seek out a Lawyer as well?

Feedback Appreciated.

BD

*Bump* Anyone Else? Really just curious about the Border Situation... Want to go on VACA soon (Feb) and now I gotta deal with those guys...

cog
15-12-2011, 05:43 AM
Make sure your butt is lubed.

Talos
16-12-2011, 12:03 AM
did you order research chems or a certain other 'thing'?

Talo
16-12-2011, 09:32 AM
Who is this guy / girl ^^ ha-ha Talos ?

cog
16-12-2011, 09:58 AM
Don't order from outside the country and then ask what might happen after you get caught.Yes he could get ****ed around at the border.

cog
16-12-2011, 11:21 AM
Who is this guy / girl ^^ ha-ha Talos ?

Must be the effects of that stupid diet you're on.

Talo
16-12-2011, 01:31 PM
You think so ?

Personally I never think education or testing is stupid - :)

cog
16-12-2011, 02:09 PM
You think so ?

Personally I never think education or testing is stupid - :)

Sorry,MY ****ING MISTAKE...that's my diet and a little tren.....more coffee

Talos
16-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Must be the effects of that stupid diet you're on.

thats funny.

signed up after finding his post. going thru the same thing

Talo
16-12-2011, 04:26 PM
Sorry,MY ****ING MISTAKE...that's my diet and a little tren.....more coffee

Wow - easy big guy