Bench Press Questions

[Josh]

Hi everyone,

I really want to improve my bench press to try to get up to pressing my own bodyweight (I weigh 145 lb, btw.) I was doing chest once per week, and was doing about 4 sets of 5 reps.

A couple weeks ago, I was doing this with 130 lb, and the 5th (and sometimes the 4th) rep in my sets was really hard (to the point where I knew if I brought the bar back down for another rep, I'd be in danger of it coming right back down on me.)

Last week, I figured I'd try doing chest twice per week instead of just once since I wanted to to get a little closer to my deadlift weight (which was 185 last week.) Both days, I tried a high rep with lower weight routine that my room mate / training partner suggested. At 115 lb, I was able to do a set of 12 and another set of 10. Then did a couple lighter sets of inclines and declines also suggested by him. I only did 2 sets of flat because he had read that after you do 2 sets, any sets after that do so little for you that there really isn't any point in doing them at all. I think he may have read that on exrx.net, but I'm not sure.

About a month ago, I read this http://askthetrainer.com/how-to-bench-press-more.html and this http://askthetrainer.com/bench-press-charts.html and thought it might be something I should try. You'll see though that it recommends about 3 warmup sets, then 4 real sets.

So my questions are:
1. Is there any truth to this "more than 2 sets is pointless" thing?
2. If yes to 1, then how does that fit in with the info from the AskTheTrainer links regarding 1RM?
3. Still on the AskTheTrainer info: Why so many warmup sets? Is that actually good for preparation, or should I just jump right into the first "real" set after 1 warmup set with the bar? Will those warmup sets with weight hinder my performance on the real sets?
4. For chest building, is it better to do high reps with lower weight or low reps (5 or 6) with more weight?

I'm really looking forward to reading what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks,
Josh

[Gib]

Wow you are asking a lot there........theres a lot of theory behind the questions.

Ill say this: If you were making strength gains from the original program you were doing (before your buddy had you change it up) then i see no reason to make changes.

As for whats better in rep schemes, its generally accepted that high weight and low reps focuses on strength development. Id say stick to benching heavy so that you are building strength because the size WILL follow. Also, your goal is to bench your body weight - since you havent hit that yet, keep on lifting for strength!

Now for the big thing: DIET! If you arent eating right, you are SERIOUSLY handicapping your potential and WILL NOT get the results from the hard work you are doing.

BTW, there are some REALLY strong ****ers on this board, so dont let anyone tell you that you should 'only' be benching your body weight. Truth is something like only 10% of north american men can bench press their body weight, so its a damn good goal to hit!

I should be studying, so ill le the other guys on the board chime in

[O-Train]

Stick with the 4 sets of 5 reps. It's almost a 5x5 program which is great for strength gains. Ignore your roomate, ignore "ask the trainer". Three warmup sets then four working sets for bench is bad advice imo. More than 2 sets is pointless?...No. You do need to warm up though.

Eating a lot of food would do you more good than anything you could ever do in the gym. Also, your bench press should not be comparable to your deadlift. Work on your deadlift.

The best advice I could give you is that when you lift think to yourself: "Am I in control." Is the weight doing exactly what I want it to and do I feel the muscles I am trying to work. Could I stop the bar from moving down and hold it there. Go slow during the eccentric phase, fast but controlled during concentric. Unless you are a powerlifter the amount of weight you lift is not nearly as important as the way you lift it.

[Felinecougar]

All the above and..

Skip the trainer, skip the room mate and GET a spotter. Not a training partner, just some LIGHT assistance for that last set. You can't fear the poundage.

So alone you didn't work through that heavier weight? You didn't push hard because you feared being trapped under it? Why? No spotter giving you a bit of light assistance...with a spotter you could have that last rep and maybe need his help again, but the next week it would be all you.

I walk around they gym, I find a young man I trust and ask em to spot me..."I want 8...but will be happy with 10!" I lay it out what I want...your goal is 5-6 reps not like my 8-10.

As for lifting your weight...
It's not about how strong you are, but how STRONG you look outside the gym.

[Rhinobolt10]

well, from your post it sounds like you're chasing a strength goal over a hypertrophy goal... if that's the case here's my advice.
1- learn how to arch. If you don't know what this is, look up Metal Militia bench training, or read some bench articles from Dave Tate. A good arch can easily put 20-40lbs on your bench once you learn the ins and outs.
2- every time you press off your chest drive your feet into the ground, to the point where you could lift your ass off the bench, but don't.
3- I love wrist wraps,
4- train the hell out of your triceps after you bench. Actually just read a Westside barbell article on bench training. just don't listen to the part about tucking your elbows... that's a specific thing they do for the bench shirts they wear.

A good plan would be to spend 2 months working on strength gains, lower reps, then spend some time after that with higher reps to increase muscle size. But, if you want to only chase strength, find some powerlifters and go train with them, I cannot tell you how much training with actual powerlifters can improve your performance.

Good luck dude.

[Josh]

Thanks for all the advice so far!

[AlladdinSane]

Listen to Larry. (Except for #3 and #3 is a preference anyways.)

[AlbertaBeef]

This is all great advice and I would like to add one more tip that has worked for me just recently and it is frequency. As a rule you train chest once or twice a week however what I was doing was everyday I trained I would set up my 1 rep max or close to it and in between sets go and push one out for a total of 3 to 4 times during my training. The key is not to exhaust yourself as you will be doing this everyday then on chest day you will start to see the difference.

[Praetorian]

This is all great advice and I would like to add one more tip that has worked for me just recently and it is frequency. As a rule you train chest once or twice a week however what I was doing was everyday I trained I would set up my 1 rep max or close to it and in between sets go and push one out for a total of 3 to 4 times during my training. The key is not to exhaust yourself as you will be doing this everyday then on chest day you will start to see the difference.

Do you mean do a one rep max 3-4 times during each training session not just chest?
P

[Praetorian]

Learn this and your bench will rock.
P

12 Steps to a Bigger Bench by dave Tate

1 - Train the Triceps

Years ago, if you had asked Larry Pacifico how to get a big bench, he'd
have told you to train the triceps. This same advice applies today. This
doesn't mean doing set after set of pushdowns, kickbacks, and other
so-called "shaping" exercises. Training your triceps for a big bench has
to involve heavy extensions and close-grip pressing movements such as
close-grip flat and incline bench presses, close-grip board presses, and
JM presses.

Various barbell and dumbbell extensions should also be staples of your
training program. Don't let anyone try to tell you the bench press is
about pec strength. These people don't know the correct way to bench and
are setting you up for a short pressing career with sub-par weights. I
just read an article in one of the major muscle magazines by one of
these authors on how to increase your bench press. The advice given was
to train your pecs with crossovers and flies and your bench will go up!
This, along with many other points, made me wonder how this article ever
got published or better yet, how much the author himself could bench.

I believe articles should go under a peer review board before they get
printed. I'd like many of my peers to review these authors in the gym or
better yet on the bench to see how much they really know. Bottom line:
Train the triceps!

2 - Keep your shoulder blades pulled together and tight.

This is a very important and often overlooked aspect of great bench
pressing. While pressing you have to create the most stable environment
possible. This can't be done if most of your shoulder blades are off the
bench. The bench is only so wide and we can't change this, but we can
change how we position ourselves on the bench.

When you pull your shoulder blades together you're creating a tighter,
more stable surface from which to press. This is because more of your
body is in contact with the bench. The tightness of your upper back also
contributes. These techniques also change the distance the bar will have
to travel. The key to pressing big weight is to press the shortest
distance possible.

[b]3 - Keep the pressure on your upper back and traps.

This is another misunderstood aspect of pressing. You want the pressure
around the supporting muscles. This is accomplished by driving your feet
into the floor, thereby driving your body into the bench. Try this: Lie
on the bench and line up so your eyes are four inches in front of the
bar (toward your feet). Now using your legs, drive yourself into the
bench to put pressure on the upper back and traps. Your eyes should now
be even with the bar. This is the same pressure that needs to be applied
while pushing the barbell.

4 - Push the bar in a straight line.

Try to push the bar toward your feet. The shortest distance between two
points is a straight line, right? Then why in the world would some
coaches advocate pressing in a "J" line toward the rack? If I were to
bench the way most trainers are advocating (with my elbows out, bringing
the bar down to the chest and pressing toward the rack) my barbell
travel distance would be 16 inches. Now, if I pull my shoulder blades
together, tuck my chin and elbows, and bring the bar to my upper
abdominals or lower chest, then my pressing distance is only 6.5 inches.
Now which would you prefer? If you want to push up a bar-bending load of
plates, you'd choose the shorter distance.

Here's another important aspect of pressing in this style. By keeping
your shoulder blades together and your chin and elbows tucked, you'll
have less shoulder rotation when compared to the J-line method of
pressing. This is easy to see by watching how low the elbows drop in the
bottom part of the press when the barbell is on the chest. With the
elbows out, most everyone's elbows are far lower than the bench. This
creates a tremendous amount of shoulder rotation and strain.

Now try the same thing with the elbows tucked and shoulder blades
together while bringing the barbell to your upper abdominals. For most
people, the elbows are usually no lower than the bench. Less shoulder
rotation equals less strain on the shoulder joint. This means pressing
bigger weights for many more years. I've always been amazed at trainers
that suggest only doing the top half of the bench press, i.e. stopping
when the upper arms are parallel to the floor. This is done to avoid the
excess shoulder rotation. All they have to do is teach their clients the
proper way to bench in the first place!

5 - Keep the elbows tucked and the bar directly over the wrists and
elbows.

This is probably the most important aspect of great pressing technique.
The elbows must remain tucked to keep the bar in a straight line as
explained above. Keeping the elbows tucked will also allow lifters to
use their lats to drive the bar off the chest. Football players are
taught to drive their opponents with their elbows tucked, then explode
through. This is the same for bench pressing. Bench pressing is all
about generating force. You can generate far more force with your elbows
in a tucked position compared to an "elbows out" position.

The most important aspect of this is to keep the barbell in a direct
line with the elbow. If the barbell is behind the elbow toward the head,
then the arm position becomes similar to an extension, not a press.

6 - Bring the bar low on your chest or upper abdominals.

This is the only way you can maintain the "barbell to elbow" position as
described above. You may have heard the advice, "Bring it low" at almost
every powerlifting competition. This is the reason why. Once again, the
barbell must travel in a straight line.

7 - Fill your belly with air and hold it.

For maximum attempts and sets under three reps, you must try to hold
your air. Everyone must learn to breathe from their bellies and not
their chests. If you stand in front of the mirror and take a deep
breath, your shoulders shouldn't rise. If they do you're breathing the
air into your chest, not your belly. Greater stability can be achieved
in all the lifts when you learn how to pull air into the belly. Try to
expand and fill the belly with as much air as possible and hold it. If
you breathe out during a maximum attempt, the body structure will change
slightly, thus changing the groove in which the barbell is traveling.

8 - Train with compensatory acceleration.

Push the bar with maximal force. Whatever weight you're trying to push,
be it 40% or 100% of your max, you must learn to apply 100% of the force
to the barbell. If you can bench 500 pounds and are training with 300
pounds, you must then apply 500 pounds of force to the 300-pound
barbell. This is known as compensatory acceleration and it can help you
break through sticking points.

These sticking points are known as your "mini maxes," or the points at
which you miss the lift or the barbell begins to slip out of the groove.
Many times I'm asked what to do if the barbell gets stuck four to five
inches off the chest. Everybody wants to know what exercise will help
them strengthen this area or what body part is holding them back. Many
times it isn't what you do to strengthen the area where it sticks, but
what you can do to build more acceleration in the area before the mini
max. If you can get the bar moving with more force then there won't be a
sticking point. Instead, you'll blast right through it. Compensatory
acceleration will help you do this.

9 - Squeeze the barbell and try to pull the bar apart!

Regardless of the lift, you have to keep your body as tight as Monica
Brant's behind. You'll never lift big weights if you're in a relaxed
physical state while under the barbell. The best way to get the body
tight is by squeezing the bar. We've also found that if you try to pull
the bar apart or "break the bar," the triceps seem to become more
activated.

10 - Devote one day per week to dynamic-effort training.

According to Vladimir Zatsiorsinsky in his text Science and Practice of
Strength Training, there are three ways to increase muscle tension.
These three methods include the dynamic-effort method, the
maximal-effort method, and the repetition method. Most training programs
being practiced in the US today only utilize one or two of these
methods. It's important, however, to use all three.

The bench press should be trained using the dynamic-effort method. This
method is best defined as training with sub-maximal weights (45 to 60%)
at maximal velocities. The key to this method is bar speed. Percentage
training can be very deceiving. The reason for this is because lifters
at higher levels have better motor control and recruit more muscle than
a less experienced lifter.

For example, the maximal amount of muscle you could possibility recruit
is 100%. Now, the advanced lifter _ after years of teaching his nervous
system to be efficient _ may be able to recruit 70 to 80% of muscle
fibers, while the intermediate might be able to recruit only 50%. Thus,
the advanced lifter would need less percent weight than the
intermediate. This is one of the reasons why an advanced lifter
squatting 80% of his max for 10 reps would kill himself while a beginner
could do it all day long.

If you base the training on bar speed, then the percentages are no
longer an issue, only a guideline. So how do you know where to start? If
you're an intermediate lifter, I suggest you start at 50% of maximal and
see how fast you can make it move for three reps. If you can move 20
more pounds with the same speed then use the heavier weight.

Based on years of experience and Primlin's charts for optimal percent
training, we've found the best range to be eight sets of three reps.
Based on Primlin's research, the optimal range for 70% and less is 12 to
24 repetitions.

We've also found it very beneficial to train the bench using three
different grips, all of which are performed within the rings. This may
break down into two sets with the pinky fingers on the rings, three sets
with three fingers from the smooth area of the bar and three sets with
one finger from the smooth area.


11 - Devote one day per week to maximal-effort training.

For the second bench day of the week (72 hours after the dynamic day)
you should concentrate on the maximal-effort method. This is best
defined as lifting maximal weights (90% to 100%) for one to three reps.
This is one of the best methods to develop maximal strength. The key
here is to strain. The downfall is you can't train above 90% for longer
than three weeks without having adverse effects.

Try performing a max bench press every week for four or five weeks.
You'll see you may progress for the first two, maybe three weeks, then
your progress will halt and begin to work its way backward. We've
combated this by switching up the maximal-effort exercises. We rotate
maximal-effort movements such as the close-grip incline press, board
press, floor press, and close-grip flat press. These exercises are all
specific to bench pressing and all have a very high carryover value.

12 - Train the lats on the same plane as the bench.

I'm talking about the horizontal plane here. In other words, you must
perform rows, rows, and more rows. "If you want to bench big then you
need to train the lats." I've heard both George Hilbert and Kenny
Patterson say this for years when asked about increasing the bench
press. When you bench you're on a horizontal plane. So would it make
sense from a balance perspective to train the lats with pulldowns, which
are on a vertical plane? Nope. Stick to the barbell row if you want a
big bench.

[Josh]

Thanks for that huge post, Praetorian. Unfortunately, I didn't read it until I got back from the gym.

I have good news though!

Thanks to the advice from everyone else earlier, I made huge progress today. I warmed up with the bar, and then with 95 (including the bar.) After that, I did a set at 125, then 130, then 135 (finally hit full plates!,) and then 2 more sets at 140! Some of the earlier sets were 6 reps, but the heavier ones were 5. After that, I squeezed in a couple decline sets: 6 reps at 135, then 5 reps at 140.

Time was short today, so I didn't have much room for chest after that. I got a couple sets of dumbbell flyes, and a set of cable crossovers. Then went on to a few triceps exercises.

All in all, I couldn't be happier, and I just want to thank everyone again for all the helpful suggestions. :) I am almost there, and then I'll have to set a new goal, haha.

[Amoral]

Congrats bro! Depending on your progress in the next few weeks, maybe you can gauge out a weekly goal. Or at least everytime you workout chest, try adding 5-10lbs onto your routine. And make double sure you have the mentality of NOT LEAVING THE GYM UNTIL YOU HAVE MADE THAT WEIGHT. Constantly thinking about it (even a week in advance) will pump you up so much that your mental game will help you push through any tough spots. Keep it up brother and don't ever stop!

[Rhinobolt10]

Congrats dude, now that you have the plates on the next big goal will be the 45's and 25's... that's always been my driver, just to see how cool it looks on the bar.

Keep up the good work man.

[Felinecougar]

Josh....130 lbs! Great:greet

[Rhinobolt10]

Listen to Larry. (Except for #3 and #3 is a preference anyways.)

Yeah, I've personally always loved wrist wraps as I've had a problem with letting my wrist bend back so they've really helped me out. I'm a powerlifter though, so if it adds more weight to the bar I'm all for it. lol.

AlladdinSane, your gym sounds absolutely amazing man, if I am ever in Calgary I am coming by.

[AlladdinSane]

That's cool. When I was PLing, the guys I was training with pushed them on me (peer pressure, lol!) and they actually made my wrists weaker and chronically sore :( No good. I know lots of guys that get a lot out of them, though, so rock on!

I'd LOVE it if you dropped by sometime if you happen to be in the area. (I have bands...)

[tiramisu]

read rippetoe's "starting strength" and/or bill starr's "only the strong will survive".

[Rhinobolt10]

That's cool. When I was PLing, the guys I was training with pushed them on me (peer pressure, lol!) and they actually made my wrists weaker and chronically sore :( No good. I know lots of guys that get a lot out of them, though, so rock on!

I'd LOVE it if you dropped by sometime if you happen to be in the area. (I have bands...)

That's kind of interesting as i've been having retarded forearm pain that I thought was from squating and shirt work... I think I'm definately going to add in some direct forearm after my next meet to see if I can get past it.

[AlladdinSane]

That's kind of interesting as i've been having retarded forearm pain that I thought was from squating and shirt work... I think I'm definately going to add in some direct forearm after my next meet to see if I can get past it.

I also get forearm/elbow pain from squatting. It blows much ass.