Do AI's or SERM's reduce or even halt the gains from an AAS cycle?

[#8]

This is a debate that has been going on for a long time and I sort of already know the answer. I'm just curious as to why so many people back the idea that taking an AI or SERM [B]DURING[B] your cycle will reduce or even halt your gains. I recently added 1.25mg of Letro EOD as my nipples were getting sensitive and I wanted to stop the gyno before it got worse. A friend told me that "I may as well stop my cycle because the Letro will kill my gains". I realize this is not true and the test is still working, but why do so many people believe this is true? Is there any truth to this age old debate?

8

[Seth]

My understanding is that because it reduces the bloat, some people think they lost weight or are gaining less.

[The Terminator]

Estrogen is an important part in the recovery process, and can help in muscular gains. Too much estrogen causes side effects, but not enough estrogen limits muscular gains. Hence why I'm not a fan of SERM's on cycle, but using AI's to ensure that Test->Estrogen Conversion is not too high, but still allows for Estrogen to be there. With SERM's a low dose can be fine, but we do still need to have estrogen present for an optimal cycle.

Matt

[#8]

thats what i figured, i just dont know why some people who consider themselves "in the know" of cycling still continue to believe this...?

[chan_ho_nam]

Estrogen is an important part in the recovery process, and can help in muscular gains. Too much estrogen causes side effects, but not enough estrogen limits muscular gains. Hence why I'm not a fan of SERM's on cycle, but using AI's to ensure that Test->Estrogen Conversion is not too high, but still allows for Estrogen to be there. With SERM's a low dose can be fine, but we do still need to have estrogen present for an optimal cycle.

Matt

Aren't SERMS what allow estrogen to be present while not bonding to their receptors, and AIs specifically, suicide inhibitors that ones that kill test conversion to estrogen?

[gustavo77]

Aren't SERMS what allow estrogen to be present while not bonding to their receptors, and AIs specifically, suicide inhibitors that ones that kill test conversion to estrogen?

This is correct.

To the original poster, yes lowering estrogen kills gains. Water weight gains....lol.

Taking an AI on cycle at a moderate dose will only bring elevated estrogen levels back down to normal range. This will not effect lean tissue gains whatsoever.

[ironwill]

Estrogen is required to produce igf-1, a very powerful anabolic, if you are getting such bad sides as you need to take an AI, lower your dose.....
AIs can be hard on liver values, cholesterol etc....Be reasonable with doseages first and foremost...
Then experiment with estrogen inhibitors.....
It is very hard to measure yourself to know when your estrogen levels are at a good reading to know if you have to much or to little,,,,your body produces more estrogen when sensing more test trying to maintain homeostasis...
use lower doses while keeping your SHBG in check for best and safest gains IMO...
its all about the SHBG....and torque...

[t-bone]

i know scott abel advises against using nolva or letro as he believes estrogen increases gains

[azian257]

repeating what was said; one of the by products of estrogen is water retention, thus increasing muscle mass which would lead to strength gains.

I personally would recommend not using novla/letro unless really high dose cycle, your really susceptible to gyno or contest prep.

[#8]

I was experiencing gyno symptoms as early as a couple weeks into my run @ only 250 mg a week. So ya I would say I am VERY prone to getting it, and I didnt have a choice, I had to hop on. Since ive been on it though (almost 2 weeks) ive noticed it has started to clear up a bit of gyno ive had since puberty. Pretty cool :)

[Big D]

i find arimidex helps alot I would run a 1g+ of test a week, with 1 mg arimi E3D and I never had any estro sides. for my new cycle i'm going to try out aromasin see how that stuff works.