Clomid or nolva...or both ?

[z83]

Hey,

What's best for PCT ? Opinoins are different on every forums. Some says Clomid + Nolva, others clomid only or nolva only (apparently less sides)

I have both in good qty. Did last injection of Test C thursday. It was my first cycle. I planned a 10 weeks @ 500mg/w but it ended as a 20 weeks @ 500 to 1g sometimes. (I know it's a lot but gains were great)

My plans were to run 4 weeks PCT

Clomid 100-50-50-50
Nolva 40-40-20-20

Discuss

Thanks

[Seth]

Personally I fear the emotional side effects of clomid too much to try it

[xxSCHiSMxx]

I always did just fine w/nolva alone. Had friends that had blurred vision while using clomid. I just don't wanna chance it.

[nisser]

Run 1 or the other imo, not both. Pick one and then see you deal with it.

[ZeOne]

Clomid brings back some bad memories.


You truly do NOT know how women feel or why they are always so emotional...until you try a good week on Clomid.

[Amoral]

Clomid brings back some bad memories.


You truly do NOT know how women feel or why they are always so emotional...until you try a good week on Clomid.

So, if you run both will it negate some of these emotional feelings?

[BAM]

Take clomid right before bed.. 50mg day is all that is needed imo

[z83]

thanks for the replies

what I want is the fastest recovery

I would like to start an other cycle mid january (after blood work)

[Avitoholis]

I have used both consecutively for my last 3-4 cycles and its worked great I also plan on starting the same PCT in two weeks.

[Michael 2009]

For my part,I`m on the last days of my PCT and take only Clomid and no side effects.

[L3]

clomid made me cry @ 150mgs

it also ****ed with my eyes at night which was kind of cool

[gustavo77]

Side effects of clomid are dose related. All that is needed is 50mg/day for three weeks. At this dose, the sides should be minimal at worst.

Regarding nolva, i am not a big fan. Nolva has been shown in numerous studies to decrease IGF-1 and GH levels. Not something you want when you are trying to recover from a heavy cycle.

[z83]

Side effects of clomid are dose related. All that is needed is 50mg/day for three weeks. At this dose, the sides should be minimal at worst.

Regarding nolva, i am not a big fan. Nolva has been shown in numerous studies to decrease IGF-1 and GH levels. Not something you want when you are trying to recover from a heavy cycle.

you think clomid as low as 50mg/w for 3 weeks is fine ?

[BAM]

you think clomid as low as 50mg/w for 3 weeks is fine ?

yes

I usually go sightly beyond that.. 25 days or so

[gustavo77]

you think clomid as low as 50mg/w for 3 weeks is fine ?

Yup thats i what do, along with Aromasin though...i run the Aromasin @25mg/day for 35-40 days....no problems recovering with that protocol, even after lonnngg cycles.. I should say though that i run HCG during all my cycles, so my boys never stop working and are ready to respond when i start pct.

[gustavo77]

clomid made me cry @ 150mgs

it also ****ed with my eyes at night which was kind of cool

No wonder...150mg/day is overkill.

Check this out...

Clomiphene Citrate Effects on Testosterone/Estrogen Ratio in Male Hypogonadism
J Sex Med 2005;2:716–721.

ABSTRACT

"Aim. Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testostosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.

Methods. Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

Results. The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 ± 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 ± 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4–6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 ± 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

Conclusions. Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estadiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway."

[L3]

No wonder...150mg/day is overkill.



yeah for sure gus i def lowred the dose to 50mgs after the first week (like you advised), i was just putting in my experience with a high dose for the thread

[420]

I start 3 weeks of clomid tomorrow for the first time. Hope I don't get all emotional..

[newbie]

Can someone mention witch online pharmacy will deliver clomid to Canada. I've looked at a few and they don't deliver here. If you don't want to post it here, then please pm me. I am going to run some prohormones in the new year and need something for a pct.

Thanks
Marco

[Amoral]

Can someone mention witch online pharmacy will deliver clomid to Canada. I've looked at a few and they don't deliver here. If you don't want to post it here, then please pm me. I am going to run some prohormones in the new year and need something for a pct.

Thanks
Marco

Welcome to CBB, post an intro in the intro section first to INTROduce yourself brotha and kindly 'mention' which jurisdiction do you belong...

[gustavo77]

Can someone mention witch online pharmacy will deliver clomid to Canada. I've looked at a few and they don't deliver here. If you don't want to post it here, then please pm me. I am going to run some prohormones in the new year and need something for a pct.

Thanks
Marco

Sorry bud, asking for a source for a controlled substance is against the rules, not to mention AGAINST THE LAW!!

[newbie]

No wonder...150mg/day is overkill.

Check this out...

Clomiphene Citrate Effects on Testosterone/Estrogen Ratio in Male Hypogonadism
J Sex Med 2005;2:716–721.

ABSTRACT

"Aim. Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testostosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio.

Methods. Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL. Each patient was treated with a daily dose of 25 mg clomiphene citrate and followed prospectively. Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed.

Results. The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 ± 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 ± 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4–6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 ± 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.

Conclusions. Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estadiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway."




Has anyone on here try clomid on it's own? How did it work out? When I say on it's own I mean without a cycle.

[Bigr]

I’ve run both and recovered fine from both. Best PCT protocol I ran was when both were run at the same time. I had no sides from either and kept nearly all my gains. I should note that this was a cutting cycle so there wasn’t any water bloat to piss out at the end. I wonder if some of the emotion people experience is just a natural part of rapid androgen decline from ending a cycle, and not a result of the clomid itself… just a thought.

[L3]

Has anyone on here try clomid on it's own? How did it work out? When I say on it's own I mean without a cycle.

i took 150mgs 1hr before working out ( a few times), well after pct was done... notcied SLIGHT increase in strenght, and tracers in my vision at night.. didnt notice any change in mood

[buffdaddy]

I've used Nolva/Clomid proticol previously and i got really bad sides from clomid. Terrible acne and I was a miserable ****er, I'm usually a happy guy, really.

For my last cycle I started the first few days of clomid at 100mg and Nolva at 40mg and then dropped down to 50mg Clomid and 40mg nolva. By the second week i was starting to lose it so i dropped the clomid altogether and just ran 40 mg Nolva for 3 weeks and dropped 20mg for the fourth. I seem to have bouced back ok so far. i hate PCT.