Rubber Stopper Pinning Techniques

[ZeOne]

This is a subject I haven't seen discussed at all in any of the forums I visit.

I always use a lower gauge pin to draw the AAS from the vial. The problem I always have is that there is small flakes of rubber that get torn from the stopper and find their way into the vial.

So thinking about it a bit more, any gauge of pin could potentially tear off a rubber fragment since what the pin is basically doing is creating a hole by displacing a small amount of rubber. I am quite sure that a lot of us and a lot pf people that get shots at hospitals have un-intentionally been injected these morceaux into muscles...and nobody is dead yet because of that specific issue.

So I was wondering about how to go on minimizing the occurrence of these fragments (besides a higher gauge needle), and I noticed that in my case, I am always trying to hit the rubber at the exact same spot all the time, which I think is creating a stress point in the rubber and making it go loose earlier.

How do you guys pin the stopper? at the same spot all the time? different spot everytime?




-Z-

[pinhead]

I usually use a 22G and poke it at different places. Once in awhile I get a piece that falls out but rare.

[tums1000]

i have used 18g every time and never had a issue with damage to the stopper .

[RagingRandy]

I use an 18ga to draw and a 25ga to pin. I highly doubt that even if something were to get drawn up into the syringe that it would get pushed out the 25ga pin. I had the same fear with amps as I always get fragments falling in when I snap the top off. I even use a proper opener.

[ZeOne]

i have used 18g every time and never had a issue with damage to the stopper .

You never noticed any small dark gray spots in the vial?

How do you pin the stopper? different place every time? sample place all the time?

[ZeOne]

I use an 18ga to draw and a 25ga to pin. I highly doubt that even if something were to get drawn up into the syringe that it would get pushed out the 25ga pin. I had the same fear with amps as I always get fragments falling in when I snap the top off. I even use a proper opener.

RR,

I thought exactly the same thing. But then I actually did the experiment, and the fragment of rubber I had, passed through the 25g with no much force. But my fragment was caused by a 20g this time. Hence my concerns.

[RagingRandy]

RR,

I thought exactly the same thing. But then I actually did the experiment, and the fragment of rubber I had, passed through the 25g with no much force. But my fragment was caused by a 20g this time. Hence my concerns.

Hmmm, I wonder how much glass has accumulated in my quads? I guess short of drawing it up through a filter I am not sure what else can be done.

[ZeOne]

Hmmm, I wonder how much glass has accumulated in my quads? I guess short of drawing it up through a filter I am not sure what else can be done.

I think glass though due to it's rigidity, might be less prone to fit in the syringe than a small and flexible piece of rubber.

[AlbertaBeef]

I tryed using 18g to draw but it murdered the stopper no matter how careful I was so there must be an art to it. It also bothers me when I draw from a vile and I can see bubbles coming in to displace the gear I'm drawing thinking that it isn't sterile. I do like to err on the side of caution but I will confess I'm a big germ-a-phobe and I also have the assurance that after reading many posts over the years I don't hear about problems or abscesses from this continually.

[Monka]

Man, i don't get it, for at least almost 20yrs, i've mostly used a 18ga to 20ga and not once did i ever notice damage. Now i don't look at stopper to find same area, just stick in any where. Just never noticed ever any stopper pieces. Not saying it can't happen, but i thought with a normal 10ml bottle, it's only like drawing say 5 times if your doing 2cc's per. Even with 1cc per, never noticed , any damage. Maybe it's the brand ? i dunno, just a thought.
Like way i know of is: put about 2cc air in syringe, then poke bottle, push in air (to presurise) then oil just pours into syringe when drawing out. Take out and draw back more air and switch tips and then get ALL air out, flick syringe if bubbles, and then clean site and bam done after you stick in.

[bear]

I tryed using 18g to draw but it murdered the stopper no matter how careful I was so there must be an art to it. It also bothers me when I draw from a vile and I can see bubbles coming in to displace the gear I'm drawing thinking that it isn't sterile. I do like to err on the side of caution but I will confess I'm a big germ-a-phobe and I also have the assurance that after reading many posts over the years I don't hear about problems or abscesses from this continually.

you're getting air bubbles because of the negative presure in the bottle. What you need to do is aspirate whatever amount your going to take out of the vial.

I find the new soft rubber stopper more prone to breaking of small peices. Doesn't happen to me verry often though...

[ZeOne]

Man, i don't get it, for at least almost 20yrs, i've mostly used a 18ga to 20ga and not once did i ever notice damage. Now i don't look at stopper to find same area, just stick in any where. Just never noticed ever any stopper pieces. Not saying it can't happen, but i thought with a normal 10ml bottle, it's only like drawing say 5 times if your doing 2cc's per. Even with 1cc per, never noticed , any damage. Maybe it's the brand ? i dunno, just a thought.
Like way i know of is: put about 2cc air in syringe, then poke bottle, push in air (to presurise) then oil just pours into syringe when drawing out. Take out and draw back more air and switch tips and then get ALL air out, flick syringe if bubbles, and then clean site and bam done after you stick in.

Hey Monka,

I, for roughly 50% of the time, end up with a fragment of rubber in the vial, no matter the brand.

But I am guessing it is due to the fact that I pin the rubber stopper at the same location every time.

I am trying now to pin a different spot on the stopper and will post my results.

[Monka]

Hey Monka,

I, for roughly 50% of the time, end up with a fragment of rubber in the vial, no matter the brand.

But I am guessing it is due to the fact that I pin the rubber stopper at the same location every time.

I am trying now to pin a different spot on the stopper and will post my results.I think MAYBE your focousing on the location, like i never look and lol just stick, but ya to date, i've not noticed anything, but now i'm not looking, very well could be but nothing i've ever noticed....MAYBE, has to do with same location, not sure.. try to do diffrent spot and see., but never have i noticed anything... lol been at this a while to.

[Mr Ontario]

I think your in to much of a hurry to inject all the time lol slow down :)


Hey Monka,

I, for roughly 50% of the time, end up with a fragment of rubber in the vial, no matter the brand.

But I am guessing it is due to the fact that I pin the rubber stopper at the same location every time.

I am trying now to pin a different spot on the stopper and will post my results.

[nisser]

I really don't think it's an issue unless you're using 20+ml vials and plan to poke through many times. I still use 22/23g needle to withdraw as I have the same concerns as you, even though it's mostly paranoia.

[Monka]

Perhaps thinking your making air holes? and poking the lid like 100 X so can breath...lol... or thinking your shanking someone? hahaha

[#8]

Not sure if this is on topic but Im using a steak knife to open my amps and then I just snap off the tops. It did occur to me that tiny pieces of glass might be ending up inside the amp when I snap the top off, but like someone said I was just hoping it wasnt gonna fit in the 25g that I am drawing with....

[nisser]

lmao man, we gave you some good suggestions on MN a while back. Best to use is a bic pen top or just snap it off with a paper towel. How exactly are you doing it with a steak knife anyway lol?

[#8]

lol ya, i just score with a steak knife and snap it off with my fingers. my buddy showed me how to do it, all im doing is subbing the steak knife for a glass cutter.

[Average 270lb Guy]

I have done anywhere from 1 to 3 cycles per year for the last 13 years using both crack-tops and stoppers. Not once have I ever seen any rubber flaoting in my bottle from damage. Yes, the stopper itself does get a little beat up, but typically a 10cc bottle only gets poked 5-7 times by me. As for the crack-tops, the chance of a shard of glass being present is there but I think the chances of it getting through a 22 or smaller is pretty slim...

[#8]

I have done anywhere from 1 to 3 cycles per year for the last 13 years using both crack-tops and stoppers. Not once have I ever seen any rubber flaoting in my bottle from damage. Yes, the stopper itself does get a little beat up, but typically a 10cc bottle only gets poked 5-7 times by me. As for the crack-tops, the chance of a shard of glass being present is there but I think the chances of it getting through a 22 or smaller is pretty slim...

good to know for peace of mind :) thanks bro