How many meals are you eating and why?

[5151]

Got some good discussion brewing on this site lately. A topic that has been on my mind lately especially with the rising popularity of intermittent fasting. Please include the WHY aspect.

[gordi]

I go for 5-6 feedings a day, and I try to get some protein and some fruit, veggies, or greens powder in every meal except my bedtime shake.

I believe that more frequent meals let me assimilate more nutrients over the course of the day while also keeping my metabolism boosted.

[WORLD]

About 6 because I want to be HEEUUUGE!

I eat fairly large meals that fill me up. I don't think I could eat less frequently than that simply because I wouldn't be able to consume enough calories by the end of the day. I didn't include my pre-workout shake either. Some people include that as a meal.

[Amoral]

I've found that aiming for 300 calories an hour works for me @ 200 lbs. Thinking average 16hr days eating no less than every two hours. However this is equivalent to many smaller meals compared to 6 big ones like WORLD. Stomach just doesn't seem big enough sometimes!

[Ritch]

Right now I`m having 5 food portions a day. I used to eat 6 but opt for more sleep and eat 5. Plus I`m not stressed about eating every 3 hours fearing that I`ll loose muscle mass. The main why is it`s just working better. If I were cutting, I`d go for 6 and would eat more whole foods.

What`s this intermittent fasting you talk about 5151? Is that like the warrior diet where you eat all your calories during the post workout period?

[spankmonkey]

6-7 meals per day, off season right now so am only really concerned with getting in the calories to gain more weight.
why 6-7?
couple reasons;
1) stimulates and helps maintain higher metabolism
2) maintains positive nitrogen balance
3) allows me to get in required cals without feeling bloated

[Felinecougar]

I aim for 5 meals at 300-400 each. I'm a light wt women.

[Rhinobolt10]

umm... I'm probably going to get shit for this, but i probably eat 4 times a day on average, sometimes more sometimes less, I also eat pretty shitty... I'm a powerlifter... I can say that eating like shit is cheaper... and lately I seem to be getting leaner and more muscular ever day... I don't always eat this way, but right now I am because I'm bulking and I don't really give a crap.

[faller]

I eat when i'm hungry and stop when i'm full. Some days it would be 2 meals (not often) and other days 5-6 ( more often)..





I also am wandering what intermitent fasting is

[oharad]

I'm dieting for vacation right now and my diet looks like this:

meal 1 1cup frozen fruit 45g of whey

Meal 2 1cup of rice and ground Xtra lean chicken

Meal 3 6oz chicken breast 3 quaker rice cakes

meal 4 4.5 oz round steak 1 potato

Meal 5 6oz chicken breast or Turkey breast 3/4 c yams

*** 2 cheat meals a week***

started at 188.... down to 169 now..... prolly drop another 4-5 pounds.... abs are already showign good... I got decent seperations.... but what the hell lets see where I can take this hahaah

[420]

umm... I'm probably going to get shit for this, but i probably eat 4 times a day on average, sometimes more sometimes less, I also eat pretty shitty... I'm a powerlifter... I can say that eating like shit is cheaper... and lately I seem to be getting leaner and more muscular ever day... I don't always eat this way, but right now I am because I'm bulking and I don't really give a crap.


Ya i eat about 4 times a day right now as well, also bulking. Ill up it to 7 when i start cutting, because as soon as i up it my metabolism starts burning fat like crazy.

I was reading on BB.com forums on Serge Nubret's Pro BB thread. He said if you wanna gain weight, make your metabolism slow and just eat when you are hungry.

[gordi]

umm... I'm probably going to get shit for this, but i probably eat 4 times a day on average, sometimes more sometimes less, I also eat pretty shitty... I'm a powerlifter... I can say that eating like shit is cheaper... and lately I seem to be getting leaner and more muscular ever day... I don't always eat this way, but right now I am because I'm bulking and I don't really give a crap.


I don't want to give you shit for how you eat. It's your body, and you can treat it however you want. I also tend to agree with 420/Serge's idea that if eating frequently revs up your metabolism, then fewer meals might be better for bulking (on the other hand, you can probably assimilate more calories with more meals... there's always something).

I do, however, want to post these links to the "Dave Tate Project" articles on John Berardi's site. They were a huge inspiration when it came to getting me to accept that I needed to start eating better (and I'm not even a powerlifter).

Here's an excerpt:

"JB, I want your opinion on something. Here's the deal: Right now I'm about 290 pounds and my ortho tells me that I have to lose some weight. My shoulder is ****ed and will need reconstruction if I don't lose about 40 pounds. Also, with high cholesterol, high blood sugar, high liver enzymes, and a mess of other problems, it's about time I took care of this shit. But here's the problem... "

This is where Tate lowered his voice a bit, chuckled, then said:

"I can't eat clean."

"Pardon," I said. "You can't eat clean?"

"Seriously, the last four times I tried to eat clean, I ended up throwing up multiple times by lunch."

Now I was chuckling. "What do you mean, Dave?"

"Each time I try to clean my diet up and eat like a bodybuilder, it only lasts about half a day. I'll eat the egg whites and oatmeal for breakfast, and I'll have a protein shake a few hours later. For lunch I'll eat chicken breasts and a salad.

But I'm not kidding when I say that by 1:00 I'm puking my ass off, not to mention that I've been shitting all morning. Wanna laugh your ass off? Picture this: One day I actually strained a trap puking my guts up. By 2:00 PM I was sitting on the couch with an ice pack on my neck, my asshole on fire from shitting a half dozen times that morning, and puke stains on my shirt."

Now I was cracking up. And trying desperately to close my mind's eye.

"So what should I do, JB? Seriously, it seems like my body rejects anything healthy I try to do."

"So, just how bad are things?" I asked.

"Well," Dave said, "I haven't eaten a vegetable in years. I eat very little protein. Most of my meals come from McDonalds. Really, I'm like that guy from Supersize Me."

"It can't be that bad, Dave."

Famous last words. Little did I know what I was in for...


And here are the links to the whole thing:

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/dave_tate_1.htm

http://www.johnberardi.com/images/dave8.png

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/dave_tate_2.htm

http://www.johnberardi.com/images/dave16.jpg

[ironwill]

My meal frequency varies....I only eat when im hungry...580+ calories per meal and usually around 6 per day...
It is something ive been doing as per my trainer, and damn do i feel great doing this...If you cant get enough calories in, you need to stimulate your appetite more so you are burning and needing more...harder more intense workouts, eat better food that digests better for you...if you are plugged up so to speak, or bloated then maybe you need to switch to a food that doesnt do that so much...like when i eat steak 3 times a day, my digestion slows down and i eat less, because it digests slower, so i dont feel as hungry and wont get in enough calories, so i substitute a couple steak meals for chicken, or burger, or fish, then im hungrier more often, as my digestion is quicker and food moves through faster and i get more protein or whatever im looking for down in a day...more shakes or lbas throughout the day keeps my protein intake up and dumps through my digestive tract quick...however if you are taking an inferior quality shake, it also will bloat you and make you feel full to long, so be careful..
theres a lot more to it, but eating when hungry makes sense...why stuff more crap into yourself if you arent even finished with last food digestion yet...Just figure out the calorie load you can handle each meal that keeps you anabolic without getting to fat and work from there..
i find a 50p/50c/20f works well for me..

[AlladdinSane]

Thanks gordi. Good links

[natenator]

My meal frequency varies....I only eat when im hungry...580+ calories per meal and usually around 6 per day...
It is something ive been doing as per my trainer, and damn do i feel great doing this...If you cant get enough calories in, you need to stimulate your appetite more so you are burning and needing more...harder more intense workouts, eat better food that digests better for you...if you are plugged up so to speak, or bloated then maybe you need to switch to a food that doesnt do that so much...like when i eat steak 3 times a day, my digestion slows down and i eat less, because it digests slower, so i dont feel as hungry and wont get in enough calories, so i substitute a couple steak meals for chicken, or burger, or fish, then im hungrier more often, as my digestion is quicker and food moves through faster and i get more protein or whatever im looking for down in a day...more shakes or lbas throughout the day keeps my protein intake up and dumps through my digestive tract quick...however if you are taking an inferior quality shake, it also will bloat you and make you feel full to long, so be careful..
theres a lot more to it, but eating when hungry makes sense...why stuff more crap into yourself if you arent even finished with last food digestion yet...Just figure out the calorie load you can handle each meal that keeps you anabolic without getting to fat and work from there..
i find a 50p/50c/20f works well for me..
50/50/20?

that's 120%??? lol

[Ritch]

What about you 5151?

[kloan]

50/50/20?

that's 120%??? lol

grams.. (per meal)?

[Ritch]

grams.. (per meal)?

I think he`s talking about % of protein, carbs, and fats in relation to total calories.

[AlladdinSane]

Nah. IW is referring to 50 grams pro, 50 grams CHO, 20 grams fat = 580 cals.

[ironwill]

Nah. IW is referring to 50 grams pro, 50 grams CHO, 20 grams fat = 580 cals.

Thanks aladdin.....:)

this is for my bodyweight of 250 lbs...fairly lean...
not the same numbers for everyone, you have to figure that part out...

[5151]

I'm loving the responses to this thread! I didn't realize there were that many out there reading this forum.

What about you 5151?

I've got to hit the gym and then am watching the world series with some ex coworkers. If I don't get back tonight I'll be in tomorrow for a reply. I'm sure you may have noticed I tend to be fairly lengthy in my replies :)

[5151]

I have been eating 6 meals a day since I got into this whole bodybuilding and muscle building culture. Now looking more at why we do the things we do I'm not so sold on it. I hope for this thread to be an ongoing discussion on meal frequency as clearly even the "experts" disagree.

6-7 meals per day, off season right now so am only really concerned with getting in the calories to gain more weight.
why 6-7?
couple reasons;
1) stimulates and helps maintain higher metabolism
2) maintains positive nitrogen balance
3) allows me to get in required cals without feeling bloated
1) do you have proof?
2) do you have proof?
3) Fair enough.

Right now I`m having 5 food portions a day. I used to eat 6 but opt for more sleep and eat 5. Plus I`m not stressed about eating every 3 hours fearing that I`ll loose muscle mass. The main why is it`s just working better. If I were cutting, I`d go for 6 and would eat more whole foods.

What`s this intermittent fasting you talk about 5151? Is that like the warrior diet where you eat all your calories during the post workout period?
Here's a good round table on IF: http://www.theiflife.com/2008/08/29/intermittent-fasting-roundtable-the-experts-talk-about-if-for-fat-loss-muscle-and-health/
My favoured form at present is 16 hour fast then 8 hour feast. I've seen the warrior diet but the 4 hour window is pretty small.

umm... I'm probably going to get shit for this, but i probably eat 4 times a day on average, sometimes more sometimes less, I also eat pretty shitty... I'm a powerlifter... I can say that eating like shit is cheaper... and lately I seem to be getting leaner and more muscular ever day... I don't always eat this way, but right now I am because I'm bulking and I don't really give a crap.
I believe the saying goes: "A powerlifter is just someone who is too fat to be a bodybuilder and a bodybuilder is just someone who is too weak to be a powerlifter" ;).
Eating four times daily doesn't really seem like it would inhibit you in anyway.

[5151]

My meal frequency varies....I only eat when im hungry...580+ calories per meal and usually around 6 per day...
It is something ive been doing as per my trainer, and damn do i feel great doing this...If you cant get enough calories in, you need to stimulate your appetite more so you are burning and needing more...harder more intense workouts, eat better food that digests better for you...if you are plugged up so to speak, or bloated then maybe you need to switch to a food that doesnt do that so much...like when i eat steak 3 times a day, my digestion slows down and i eat less, because it digests slower, so i dont feel as hungry and wont get in enough calories, so i substitute a couple steak meals for chicken, or burger, or fish, then im hungrier more often, as my digestion is quicker and food moves through faster and i get more protein or whatever im looking for down in a day...more shakes or lbas throughout the day keeps my protein intake up and dumps through my digestive tract quick...however if you are taking an inferior quality shake, it also will bloat you and make you feel full to long, so be careful..
theres a lot more to it, but eating when hungry makes sense...why stuff more crap into yourself if you arent even finished with last food digestion yet...Just figure out the calorie load you can handle each meal that keeps you anabolic without getting to fat and work from there..
i find a 50p/50c/20f works well for me..
A lot of what you said makes sense. Especially using foods that allow you to make your macro/calorie goals daily easier. I would say on a diet a shake like casein or milk protein isolate may be beneficial as it will leave you full longer and probably the opposite when bulking. It may not necessarily be the quality of the shake that keeps you feeling full for longer but rather the type of protein as well.

Ya i eat about 4 times a day right now as well, also bulking. Ill up it to 7 when i start cutting, because as soon as i up it my metabolism starts burning fat like crazy.

I was reading on BB.com forums on Serge Nubret's Pro BB thread. He said if you wanna gain weight, make your metabolism slow and just eat when you are hungry.

That makes sense from a common sense point of view but I'm not sure that's what research is really saying.

[5151]

In favour of fewer meals:


The effect of meal frequency on body composition during 12-weeks of strength training

Abstract
Background: Human trials on the effect of meal frequency on body composition are scarce. Short-term studies show increased rate of protein synthesis immediately after intake of amino acids (Rennie 2002), and frequent meals are shown to aid in the preservation of lean body mass when dieting (Iwao 1996). Consequently it could be hypothesised that in response to strength training interventions, more frequent meals will give larger muscle mass accumulation and lower fat mass than fewer meals.

Objective: The purpose of this study was to compare the effects of dividing the daily food intake in 3 versus 6 meals per day on changes in body composition in young men and women performing strength training over 12 weeks.
Design: Men (n=33) and women (n=15) aged 21 to 35 with at least one year of previous strength training experience were matched according to strength and gender and then randomly assigned to either a 6M group or a 3M group. The prescribed total dietary intake was equal between the groups and was calculated to give a positive energy balance of approximately 1200 KJ/day, a protein intake of 1.5-1.7 g/kg/day and a carbohydrate intake of 5-7 g/kg/day (Table 1). During the training period the dietary intake was controlled by repeated 24-hours recalls. All participants performed the same periodized 2-split strength-training programme, training four times per week, giving each muscle group one heavy session and one light session per week. In the heavy sessions, training intensity varied between 10 and 3 RM sets, and 3-6 sets were performed in each exercise. Project leaders, giving every participant the necessary assistance, supervised all heavy sessions. Determination of body composition was performed with DEXA at the beginning of, in the middle of and immediately after the trial.
Results: A total of 16 men and 11 women completed the project. The 3M group had a strong tendency towards greater gain in LBM than the 6M group after twelve weeks of strength training, 1.71% {-0.18, 3.59}, p=0,075. After linear regression analysis the difference was significant when adjusted for gender and energy intake (p=0.045), when adjusted for gender and protein intake (p=0.027), and when adjusted for gender, protein intake, carbohydrate intake and fat intake (p=0.011). There were no significant differences in change in fat mass between the groups, but a tendency towards a greater gain in the 3M group, 7.33% {-5.23, 19.90}, p=0.241. The 3M group had a 2.87% {0.62, 5.12} larger weight gain than the 6M group, p=0.014. Both groups had significant increases in strength in all test exercises. The 3M group had a larger strength gain in bench press, 10.85% {3.38, 18.32}, p=0.006 and triceps pushdown, 12.81%, {3.14, 22.47}, p=0.011 and a larger strength gain for the upper body, 8.37% {1.61, 15.13}, p=0.017 and total body, 6.28 {0.46, 12.09}, p=0.035 than the 6M group. The participants had a 2.31% {0.83, 3.79}, gain in bone mineral density of the spine during the twelve weeks of strength training, p=0.003, but there were no differences between the groups.

Conclusion: In this study, three meals per day resulted in larger muscle- and strength gain from strength training when in positive energy balance than six meals per day over a period of twelve weeks. The reason why we draw opposite conclusions from short-term studies needs further investigation. More long-term studies are needed to determine the optimal meal frequency for ultimate gain in LBM from strength training, and larger groups may be needed to determine an effect of meal frequency on fat mass. The changes in fat mass had large variations within and between the groups, making it difficult to draw any conclusions.

To all the people who are going to say they eat 6 meals daily to keep blood sugar levels stable and eating big meals will give you diabetes:


J Appl Physiol. 2005 Dec;99(6):2128-36. Epub 2005 Jul 28. Links
Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men.

* Halberg N,
* Henriksen M,
* Soderhamn N,
* Stallknecht B,
* Ploug T,
* Schjerling P,
* Dela F.

Dept. of Muscle Research Centre, The Panum Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark. nilsh@mfi.ku.dk

Insulin resistance is currently a major health problem. This may be because of a marked decrease in daily physical activity during recent decades combined with constant food abundance. This lifestyle collides with our genome, which was most likely selected in the late Paleolithic era (50,000-10,000 BC) by criteria that favored survival in an environment characterized by fluctuations between periods of feast and famine. The theory of thrifty genes states that these fluctuations are required for optimal metabolic function. We mimicked the fluctuations in eight healthy young men [25.0 +/- 0.1 yr (mean +/- SE); body mass index: 25.7 +/- 0.4 kg/m(2)] by subjecting them to intermittent fasting every second day for 20 h for 15 days. Euglycemic hyperinsulinemic (40 mU.min(-1).m(-2)) clamps were performed before and after the intervention period. Subjects maintained body weight (86.4 +/- 2.3 kg; coefficient of variation: 0.8 +/- 0.1%). Plasma free fatty acid and beta-hydroxybutyrate concentrations were 347 +/- 18 and 0.06 +/- 0.02 mM, respectively, after overnight fast but increased (P < 0.05) to 423 +/- 86 and 0.10 +/- 0.04 mM after 20-h fasting, confirming that the subjects were fasting. Insulin-mediated whole body glucose uptake rates increased from 6.3 +/- 0.6 to 7.3 +/- 0.3 mg.kg(-1).min(-1) (P = 0.03), and insulin-induced inhibition of adipose tissue lipolysis was more prominent after than before the intervention (P = 0.05). After the 20-h fasting periods, plasma adiponectin was increased compared with the basal levels before and after the intervention (5,922 +/- 991 vs. 3,860 +/- 784 ng/ml, P = 0.02). This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept.

[gordi]

Was there any info on the 3-meals vs. 6-meals study about the participants' body fat? I'm thinking that maybe 3 meals might be best for bulking but 6 for cutting.

[5151]

Was there any info on the 3-meals vs. 6-meals study about the participants' body fat? I'm thinking that maybe 3 meals might be best for bulking but 6 for cutting.

I don't have the full text. My biggest issue with that particular study is the small sample size. The abstract states that although there was no significant difference in bf change between the two groups there was a tendency for more bf gain in the 3 meal group.

[5151]

Layne Norton has been working on some research that fewer meals may be more justified in creating more MPS. I'll try to dig up some of his studies/articles that talk about this later today. But I posed the question to an endocrinologist who is certified by the ISSN and is also a supplement formulator. His response seemed to favour 6 meals regardless.

My background entails a more all-inclusive metabolic perspective. What I reminded Layne of at the ISSN Conference a while back was that body composition alteration consists of two VERY different components:

[1] MPS (his direct concern)

-and-

[2] Hypothalamic functioning (mine)


EVERYTHING in human metabolism discussion begins and ends with the hypothalamus, that piece of your brain that controls everything from whether or not you're hungry (satiety center) to how fast things traverse the gastrointestinal tract (what I dub, gastroneuronal communication). The moment we stop with consistent feedings, our body gets completely conservative and it is an adaptive downward spiral where your body will continue to become more and more metabolically-inefficient (see my article in Anabolic Xtreme's 1st edition of their magazine for more).

Let's look at basic pathways:

[1] Multiple small feedings q 2-3 hours ---> gastroneuronal communication senses consistent nutrient flow ---> increased GI transit to accomodate; allowance for greater metabolic efficiency

[2] Few feedings say q 6-8 hours (prototypical 3 square meals per day) ---> gastroneuronal communication senses pause in nutrient flow (essential "starvation mode" though this is an absolute terrible misnomer and one of my pet peeves when I see it referenced this way, because this isn't exactly what happens, but the true process is beyond the scope of this post) ---> decreased GI transit (slow progression through GI tract to allow for greater surface area contact with particulate manner for as best an absorption it can be offered, though highly inefficient.



When you approximate both hypothalamic functioning in with MPS, only then can you begin to truly understand the hows and whys of human metabolism. If considering only MPS, that would be like suggesting we are to remain anabolic all the day long which is not true. So, yes, contrary to popular thought, a controlled catabolic state is actualy a GOOD and oftentimes NEEDED thing. Never buy into supplement ads.

[5151]

Was there any info on the 3-meals vs. 6-meals study about the participants' body fat? I'm thinking that maybe 3 meals might be best for bulking but 6 for cutting.

This would make sense if metabolism was something that you could rev up and slow down however it seems that the thermic effect of food is based on intake not amount of times there is intake. For example eating 6 times would provide 6 small spikes and eating 3 times would provide 3 large spikes.

Here is Lyle McDonald post covering this topic
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/showpost.php?p=146310&postcount=4

[ironwill]

A lot of what you said makes sense. Especially using foods that allow you to make your macro/calorie goals daily easier. I would say on a diet a shake like casein or milk protein isolate may be beneficial as it will leave you full longer and probably the opposite when bulking. It may not necessarily be the quality of the shake that keeps you feeling full for longer but rather the type of protein as well.


That makes sense from a common sense point of view but I'm not sure that's what research is really saying.


Also i am big on enzymes as of late....Natural sources from fruits etc.as well as pill form if needed..I eat fruits now with all of my meat meals and it definitely without a doubt aids in quality of digestion....I have proof every morning, and late afternoon...lol..Big time loss of abdominal softness since as well..
also inferior quality protein does bloat me seriously, and gassy etc..
you have to keep the fuel filters clean folks...Thats where most problems begin...