ECA and CLEN

[macman1234]

A buddy of mine just asked me if it's OK to take ECA Plus Clen. I wasnt to sure. anyone know or know of a better combo.

[theslime]

A buddy of mine just asked me if it's OK to take ECA Plus Clen. I wasnt to sure. anyone know or know of a better combo.

I just take clen, start at 40 mcg and increase 20 mcg every two weeks until you reach 100-120 mcg. Stay at that dose for two weeks, then one week at 40 mcg before stopping cold turkey. Thats how I do it but i know others dont agree.

[Kiem]

Most people rotate between Clen and ECA every 2 weeks. They are not to be taken together. Clen is to be taken for 2 weeks, by pyramyding from 40-60mcg and increasing by 20mcg every 2-3 days until you reach 100-120mcg. Chart below is an example.

After 2 weeks Clen loses its effectiveness since your receptors are dowregulated. You can either stop for 2 weeks or jump onto ECA.


Day 1 60mcg
Day 2 60mcg
Day 3 60mcg
Day 4 80mcg
Day 5 80mcg
Day 6 80mcg
Day 7 100mcg
Day 8 100mcg
Day 9 100mcg
Day 10 120mcg
Day 11 120mcg
Day 12 120mcg
Day 13 120mcg
Day 14 120mcg

stop for 2 weeks or jump to ECA 25 mg of ephedrine, 200 mg of caffeine and 325 mg of Aspirin.

Edit: From what terminator said below, since eca and clen hit the same receptors. It may be wiser to use Ketofen or Benedryl every night on the 3rd week concurrently with Clen to keep the receptors functioning properly and to allow you to use clen for much longer period. Sorry for the confusion.

[RagingRandy]

I don't think I would mix. I have tried both and seem to get best results from just caffeine and Effies.

[The Terminator]

Most people rotate between Clen and ECA every 2 weeks. They are not to be taken together. Clen is to be taken for 2 weeks, by pyramyding from 40-60mcg and increasing by 20mcg every 2-3 days until you reach 100-120mcg. Chart below is an example.

After 2 weeks Clen loses its effectiveness since your receptors are dowregulated. You can either stop for 2 weeks or jump onto ECA.


Day 1 60mcg
Day 2 60mcg
Day 3 60mcg
Day 4 80mcg
Day 5 80mcg
Day 6 80mcg
Day 7 100mcg
Day 8 100mcg
Day 9 100mcg
Day 10 120mcg
Day 11 120mcg
Day 12 120mcg
Day 13 120mcg
Day 14 120mcg

stop for 2 weeks or jump to ECA 25 mg of ephedrine, 200 mg of caffeine and 325 mg of Aspirin.

Do not take this gent's advice, as it's not based on science at all.

A contradiction is present, and here's why. If the Beta2andrenergic receptors are down regulated from the Clen, when why would ECA work? It doesn't. You're basically setting yourself up for failure and not recovery from the Clen if you do this.

Unlike Clen, ECA is not a specific Beta antagonist. It is simply a Beta antagonist that acts on all Beta receptors, including 2 which humans possess, and 3 which humans possess little of.

You can use Clen and ECA together, but there's no real point. Just up the dose of Clen to no more that 200mcg (I keep to 150 and under), and take caffeine pills or black coffee. You're hitting the Beta2's which causes the metabolic shift towards fat burning.

Matt

[fathead]

Do not take this gent's advice, as it's not based on science at all.

A contradiction is present, and here's why. If the Beta2andrenergic receptors are down regulated from the Clen, when why would ECA work? It doesn't. You're basically setting yourself up for failure and not recovery from the Clen if you do this.

Unlike Clen, ECA is not a specific Beta antagonist. It is simply a Beta antagonist that acts on all Beta receptors, including 2 which humans possess, and 3 which humans possess little of.

You can use Clen and ECA together, but there's no real point. Just up the dose of Clen to no more that 200mcg (I keep to 150 and under), and take caffeine pills or black coffee. You're hitting the Beta2's which causes the metabolic shift towards fat burning.

Matt

correct-amundo
thats pretty much the same thing as saying "im gonna cycle off test enanthate and onto prop back and forth so i can recover".

i really advise everyone on these boards to be very careful of the information and advice they read... a lot of it is poor, or straight up WRONG

[The Terminator]

correct-amundo
thats pretty much the same thing as saying "im gonna cycle off test enanthate and onto prop back and forth so i can recover".

i really advise everyone on these boards to be very careful of the information and advice they read... a lot of it is poor, or straight up WRONG

Hence why we need to get our heads out of the gym in a lot of cases and into the Peer Reviewed Studies to get the information right, and not keep passing on the old "wives" tales that old school bodybuilders tend to tell.

"Deca and Dbol will get you huge!"

Sure, if you hate erections. :)

Matt

[fathead]

well be careful there bro. scientific studies and bodybuilding reality dont always go hand in hand. there are a lot of practices that work well in reality that on paper or in studies are poo poo.

almost every nutrition prof at a university will tell you that studies/data show that all you need to grow is like 60-90 grams of protein a day, even if youre an athlete and that science proves yada yada etc etc. get real.

deca and dbol works man. and a lot of old timers (and new comers) use it with success and without any problems. the "test is best" or "you cant have a cycle without test" or "test higher than deca/etc" is exactly one of the bodybuilding myths passed from guy to guy and regurgitated over and over again, its just more modern and for this day and age...

[Kiem]

Do not take this gent's advice, as it's not based on science at all.

A contradiction is present, and here's why. If the Beta2andrenergic receptors are down regulated from the Clen, when why would ECA work? It doesn't. You're basically setting yourself up for failure and not recovery from the Clen if you do this.

Unlike Clen, ECA is not a specific Beta antagonist. It is simply a Beta antagonist that acts on all Beta receptors, including 2 which humans possess, and 3 which humans possess little of.

You can use Clen and ECA together, but there's no real point. Just up the dose of Clen to no more that 200mcg (I keep to 150 and under), and take caffeine pills or black coffee. You're hitting the Beta2's which causes the metabolic shift towards fat burning.

Matt

He asked if ECA and Clen can be taken together and I gave him the simplest answer. If he has those 2 on hand he can do the cycle I stated or take 2 weeks off. Did I not say that? I know ECA and Clen hit the same recpetor but many swear that the Clen switch to ECA works so they don't have to take 2 weeks off. I myself use Clen for up to 5weeks straight but on the 3rd week I add antihistamine, every night for 1 week, to upregulate the receptors. :moon

[The Terminator]

He asked if ECA and Clen can be taken together and I gave him the simplest answer. If he has those 2 on hand he can do the cycle I stated or take 2 weeks off. Did I not say that? I know ECA and Clen hit the same recpetor but many swear that the Clen switch to ECA works so they don't have to take 2 weeks off. I myself use Clen for up to 5weeks straight but on the 3rd week I add antihistamine, every night for 1 week, to upregulate the receptors. :moon

No need to be an ass about it, I wasn't rude regarding your post. I merely pointed out it wasn't based on science. If you wish to take that as an insult, that's your choice.

Many might say that it works, but we're concentrating on the Beta2's, not Beta 1, 2, and 3. Fatloss mostly comes from the Beta2's, and a little from the Beta3's which humans really don't possess much of. Beta3's typically stimulate muscle growth, hence why it's usually given to cattle to make them larger.


Maybe some people's receptor's recover faster, that's a plausible fact. However, the use of clen downregulates the beta3's. How is a weaker Beta antagonist such as Ephedrine supposed to cause further saturation? It can't. Your friends, and the people you speak with are more likely seeing results from taking in caffeine at 200mg three times a day. That's not a normal intake for most people.

Out of curiosity, what antihistimine are you taking to upregulate? The only thing proven to work is ketotifen. Benedryl is reputed to work, even though none of the ingredients have been proven to work.

Matt

[Kiem]

correct-amundo
thats pretty much the same thing as saying "im gonna cycle off test enanthate and onto prop back and forth so i can recover".

i really advise everyone on these boards to be very careful of the information and advice they read... a lot of it is poor, or straight up WRONG

Did I not say take 2 weeks off or? I don't believe my answer was poor or dead wrong. I answered to the context of the question, which was "if it's OK to take ECA Plus Clen" I don't believe its a good idea to take them together so I advised him to rotate if he wants. Just like what you said about science, its not always true since alot of members here used Clen then switch to ECA with great success. Thankyou for your time.

[The Terminator]

Did I not say take 2 weeks off or? I don't believe my answer was poor or dead wrong. I answered to the context of the question, which was "if it's OK to take ECA Plus Clen" I don't believe its a good idea to take them together so I advised him to rotate if he wants. Just like what you said about science, its not always true since alot of members here used Clen then switch to ECA with great success. Thankyou for your time.


You can either stop for 2 weeks or jump onto ECA.


You sure did. However, I still don't think this is good advice, and I'm sure a lot of people will agree. Advising this is dangerous for people who are not experienced if they are reading it, and planning to use it for the first time. I politely disagree with your statements that it is ok to jump from Clen to ECA as this does not allow sufficient time for down regulation of the Beta2's.

Matt

[Kiem]

No need to be an ass about it, I wasn't rude regarding your post. I merely pointed out it wasn't based on science. If you wish to take that as an insult, that's your choice.

Many might say that it works, but we're concentrating on the Beta2's, not Beta 1, 2, and 3. Fatloss mostly comes from the Beta2's, and a little from the Beta3's which humans really don't possess much of. Beta3's typically stimulate muscle growth, hence why it's usually given to cattle to make them larger.


Maybe some people's receptor's recover faster, that's a plausible fact. However, the use of clen downregulates the beta3's. How is a weaker Beta antagonist such as Ephedrine supposed to cause further saturation? It can't. Your friends, and the people you speak with are more likely seeing results from taking in caffeine at 200mg three times a day. That's not a normal intake for most people.

Out of curiosity, what antihistimine are you taking to upregulate? The only thing proven to work is ketotifen. Benedryl is reputed to work, even though none of the ingredients have been proven to work.

Matt

Terminator, the shaking ass at the end was meant as a joke to lighten things up. From what I have read from you I can tell your a very smart dude with good advice and I respect you for that. I have taken ketotifen and Benydril and find that both works just as well. BTW if I sounded like and ass in anyway I am sorry. It was a crude response.

[The Terminator]

LOL, I think we both meant jokes. My "ass" comment was toward the 3 you were shaking at me. ;)

Good to know that you found Benedryl works, I'd personally still stick with keto just to be safe. Just a personal thing.

Matt

[Kiem]

LOL, I think we both meant jokes. My "ass" comment was toward the 3 you were shaking at me. ;)

Good to know that you found Benedryl works, I'd personally still stick with keto just to be safe. Just a personal thing.

Matt

Terminator, I do believe that Clen for 2 weeks then Keto and then back on Clen, would have been a better advice. Which I have given before on here, when someone asked which is a more effective combination. But I made the mistake by only answering the question and not offering a better alternative. I appreciate your gentle spanking. Man do you have soft hands.

[Kilburn]

im never taking either ever again. it makes me shake and gives me anxiety.

[The Terminator]

Terminator, I do believe that Clen for 2 weeks then Keto and then back on Clen, would have been a better advice. Which I have given before on here, when someone asked which is a more effective combination. But I made the mistake by only answering the question and not offering a better alternative. I appreciate your gentle spanking. Man do you have soft hands.

An even better option than that suggestion, which is a "PCT" for clen essentially, is to continue the fat loss and run clen continuously with keto in the evenings. It'll help a brother sleep and will allow the receptors to recover for the next days clen. 1 to 2 milligrams a night does it. ;)

However, keto can be run just fine in the second week of clen and then 2 weeks off. There's no need to run keto when not taking clen as the receptors upregulate in the second week of offtime. :)

Matt

PS - The soft hands are from all the errr...umm...extra Test I "had". :D

[fathead]

Did I not say take 2 weeks off or? I don't believe my answer was poor or dead wrong. I answered to the context of the question, which was "if it's OK to take ECA Plus Clen" I don't believe its a good idea to take them together so I advised him to rotate if he wants. Just like what you said about science, its not always true since alot of members here used Clen then switch to ECA with great success. Thankyou for your time.

saying "take 2 weeks of OR just jump into eca" means that youre suggesting there is nothing the matter with going from clen to eca and back again. just not a good practice. dont get defensive, it wasnt a shot at you, it was a warning to budday

[drdnj]

No need to be an ass about it, I wasn't rude regarding your post. I merely pointed out it wasn't based on science. If you wish to take that as an insult, that's your choice.

Many might say that it works, but we're concentrating on the Beta2's, not Beta 1, 2, and 3. Fatloss mostly comes from the Beta2's, and a little from the Beta3's which humans really don't possess much of. Beta3's typically stimulate muscle growth, hence why it's usually given to cattle to make them larger.


Maybe some people's receptor's recover faster, that's a plausible fact. However, the use of clen downregulates the beta3's. How is a weaker Beta antagonist such as Ephedrine supposed to cause further saturation? It can't. Your friends, and the people you speak with are more likely seeing results from taking in caffeine at 200mg three times a day. That's not a normal intake for most people.

Out of curiosity, what antihistimine are you taking to upregulate? The only thing proven to work is ketotifen. Benedryl is reputed to work, even though none of the ingredients have been proven to work.

Matt

Ahhh, the age old science vs. practice debate...
I have always thought it was strange how people take ephedrine in an effort to recover from clen to allow receptors to upregulate etc etc.)

Terminator, you are correct, there is no debate.... BETA receptor agonists will downregulate beta receptors (classic and WELL ESTABLISHED pharmacology).....point blank.....therefore, taking ephedrine in hopes to recover from clen is bunk.

my 2cc's worth ...