How did you guys get on HRT?

[ZeOne]

Hey guys,

I am going to see a private endocrinologist to change the type of insulin I take since my family doctor is only scheduling me in 4 months (and this is the earliest I could get).

I want to ask him if he can put me on HRT, but I have no idea on how to go about asking him or approaching him on that issue.

How did you guys approach your doctor so he put you on HRT? (HCG and Test)

[L3]

only catch is they will prescribe only replacement levels of test, so no more than 200mgs, if that

[ZeOne]

Yeah thanks legaliz3, that's is a limitation I am willing to live with for now.





-Z-

[RagingRandy]

You can find anything with google ;)

[ZeOne]

You can find anything with google ;)

lol,

Indeed. My real concern I guess is that the doc will have some prejudice against me because of my size.

[kloan]

Wear baggy clothes and slouch... try to look fat. Then you can blame the fat gain on low test.... :D

- fatigue
- lethargy
- low sex drive
- trouble sleeping
- losing muscle, gaining fat

Some key things to mention to the doc. Look up TRT on Google and make a note of the symptoms of low testosterone that qualify for TRT and tell the doc you're experiencing those symptoms. Depending on the doc though, you may still have to get bloodwork done to verify your hormone levels.

[gordi]

For me, it was after my doc and I had a serious talk about me needing to make changes in my diet and exercise to save my health. I made changes, and my health and appearance started to improve. I think that really created an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust between my doctor and I.

So, here's how I was feeling:

- I could still get it up for sex, but I was kind of losing interest and never initiated sex any more.

- I had lots of aches and pains that just weren't going away.

- I was lethargic a lot of the time.

- I wasn't too interested in getting work done.

- It was taking me a ridiculously long time to recover from exercise and from any minor injury.

- My sleep was poor.

- I was really moody.

- I was no longer terribly interested in having a social life outside of work and marriage.

- I had lost a lot of muscle and gained a lot of fat, and was finding it really hard to turn that around.


He had me getting some blood tests done, and I asked if he could get them to check my test levels while they were at it. Given my age (42 then, 43 now) and symptoms, and the trust and respect we had established, he agreed with no problem. The tests came back low.

He put me on undecanoate (Andriol) pills. I did some research. I found out that Andriol results are pretty mixed. I found out that some docs don't like to prescribe shots because many patients are afraid of needles. My wife is a nurse aid in Canada, and was an RN in Japan, she could give me my shots... so that wasn't going to be an issue with me. (I give myself the shots now without problems, but at first I would've been nervous about it). I discussed this with my doctor. I showed him some of the research I'd done (It was a lot of paper, so I highlighted some of the most relevant info in order to keep from burdening him with a ton of reading). He was interested. He was happy to change my prescription.

I got on the shots. Just 100mg of cyp per week. It's made a huge difference in my sex life, work life, body composition, self-esteem, social life, mood, sleep, and health. It's night and day.

I find I get a bit cranky 5 days after my shot. I'm going to ask if we can bump it up to 100mg every 5 days. I think that might be my sweet spot.

I really feel that, if you have low natural test, TRT can change your life. This is particularly true if you are willing to improve your diet, exercise, and sleep habits as well.

I think that, if you are just looking to get test legally... the doc isn't going to prescribe enough to make it worthwhile for bodybuilding purposes.

[ZeOne]

Wear baggy clothes and slouch... try to look fat :D

ROFL...I will also not sleep for the night in order to have baggy eyes and eat some garlic before to confuse him with my breath :D

[ZeOne]

For me, it was after my doc and I had a serious talk about me needing to make changes in my diet and exercise to save my health. I made changes, and my health and appearance started to improve. I think that really created an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust between my doctor and I.

So, here's how I was feeling:

- I could still get it up for sex, but I was kind of losing interest and never initiated sex any more.

- I had lots of aches and pains that just weren't going away.

- I was lethargic a lot of the time.

- I wasn't too interested in getting work done.

- It was taking me a ridiculously long time to recover from exercise and from any minor injury.

- My sleep was poor.

- I was really moody.

- I was no longer terribly interested in having a social life outside of work and marriage.

- I had lost a lot of muscle and gained a lot of fat, and was finding it really hard to turn that around.


He had me getting some blood tests done, and I asked if he could get them to check my test levels while they were at it. Given my age (42 then, 43 now) and symptoms, and the trust and respect we had established, he agreed with no problem. The tests came back low.

He put me on undecanoate (Andriol) pills. I did some research. I found out that Andriol results are pretty mixed. I found out that some docs don't like to prescribe shots because many patients are afraid of needles. My wife is a nurse aid in Canada, and was an RN in Japan. That wasn't going to be an issue with me. I discussed this with my doctor. I showed him some of the research I'd done (It was a lot of paper, so I highlighted some of the most relevant info in order to keep from burdening him with a ton of reading). He was interested. He was happy to change my prescription.

I got on the shots. Just 100mg of cyp per week. It's made a huge difference in my sex life, work life, body composition, self-esteem, social life, mood, sleep, and health. It's night and day.

I find I get a bit cranky 5 days after my shot. I'm going to ask if we can bump it up to 100mg every 5 days. I think that might be my sweet spot.

I really feel that, if you have low natural test, TRT can change your life. This is particularly true if you are willing to improve your diet, exercise, and sleep habits as well.

I think that, if you are just looking to get test legally... the doc isn't going to prescribe enough to make it worthwhile for bodybuilding purposes.

Thanks gordi,

Much appreciated.

Just for the record, I am not looking for a way to get legal testosterone. I do get some of the syndromes of low test and they subside when I start a test cycle, at least for the first few weeks.

So I know I am low on test naturally, and being diabetic doesn't help either.

My only problem is that right now, I am on a test cycle, so I have no issue per say, and if the doc decides to do blood work, he will see that my test is too high.

I though of telling the doc that when I am not on test I feel most of the classical low test effects, but right now I am on test and I don't feel them anymore. But I am not sure if I will lose credibility by doing so.

Maybe I should wait until after PCT to discuss the issue.


-Z-

[gordi]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were just out to get legal test. I meant it more as general info for anyone who might be reading.

Do you remember Tim Belknap? 5'4" 200lbs IFBB pro, and an insulin-dependent diabetic.

It must be difficult to balance a diabetes-control diet with a bodybuilding diet! If you don't mind me asking (and I'm sorry for taking the thread off topic); How do you do it? Also: Is there a way to take advantage of being insulin-dependent by injecting your insulin with timing that benefits your bodybuilding goals?

I'm really interested in this subject because the big conversation I had with my doc revolved around me being pre-diabetic. It looks like I'm out of danger for now, though. It was due mainly to bad habits and not genetics, in my case.

Here's a very interesting thread on the subject from T-Nation, by the way:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/diabetes_and_large_diets

Back on topic: I think that it depends on the relationship that you have with your doctor. In some cases, they would probably appreciate the honesty. I think that certainly there would be no risk that they'd call the cops on you. Sadly, even with doctors you're probably running the risk that they've bought into the media hysteria and will freak out that you are using dangerous drugs if you bring up aas use.

Anyway, I wish you the very best of luck and hope that it works out as well for you as it has for me (and gsxr, phats, and the others here who are on TRT).

[RagingRandy]

Here is a good video of what some men go through and the difference it can make in there life. It made a great difference in mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvpQoOxwVkg

[phatkid77]

come off the gear, get tested at the appropiate time...say

1. loss of interest in sex
2.. tired
3. loss of erection strenght
3. lose erections during sex

maybe even say, you have tried your own HRT at 150mg/wk and feel A HUGE difference....

also, note, since you are diabetic, the androgel WILL NOT be absorbed....

phats

[gsxr750]

Had all the symptoms at 25. My doc just wanted to have me eat high doses of Paxil for the rest of my life. Did not even do bloodwork.

I met a new doctor, did not even need bloodwork. Just goes by a questionairre, he said my score was very low, so low that he started me on HCG that day.

After a month, I was not happy with the improvements, so I was prescribed Test at that point, and remain on HCG in case I decide I want children. Bloodwork is done after a month or two to check everything and see your health. But again your treatment not based soley on bloodwork more how you're feeling. Every body is different, this we all know when it comes to drugs..

If you really need TRT just be honest. If you're just looking for a script, tell him the things that have been mentioned already,..

Poor sleep, loss of sexual interest ( going to lose your GF etc ), erection problems, fat gain..

I feel great now.

[big_luse]

^Gordi, Phats, GSXR ---> what kind of #s (Total T) did you guys have when your doc put you on?

BTW I havent used AAS. Im just wondering because twice now, I have scocred a 12 (10-30 is the normal). 2 years ago I beleive my levels were somewhere between 20-25 @ my physical ...

It could be stress I suppose, about every relative outside of my immdiate family has/is/almost is dying and its been a stressful ****ing year - but yeah, despite my asthetic appearence im a shell of what I was 2 years ago (Im only 22 btw).

[gsxr750]

I was on the 'low end of the range' and 'these are not optimal levels'.

So i'd guess I was between 10 and 20.

[Mr Ontario]

Some of those symptoms are low thyroid as well.


Wear baggy clothes and slouch... try to look fat. Then you can blame the fat gain on low test.... :D

- fatigue
- lethargy
- low sex drive
- trouble sleeping
- losing muscle, gaining fat

Some key things to mention to the doc. Look up TRT on Google and make a note of the symptoms of low testosterone that qualify for TRT and tell the doc you're experiencing those symptoms. Depending on the doc though, you may still have to get bloodwork done to verify your hormone levels.

oms

[phatkid77]

i have all my labs luse.. but yeah, 12 is low..for sure..age??

mine hovered between 10.4 and 11.4, when i was prescribed "i think" it spike to 12 something....

phats

[kloan]

Some of those symptoms are low thyroid as well.



oms
Interesting you should mention the thyroid, I was just talking with my dad about TRT and he suggested it could be thyroid related.

[Mr Ontario]

Where or how did you find out that the Androgel didn't or wont absorb if your diabetic?


come off the gear, get tested at the appropiate

time...say

1. loss of interest in sex
2.. tired
3. loss of erection strenght
3. lose erections during sex

maybe even say, you have tried your own HRT at 150mg/wk and feel A HUGE difference....

also, note, since you are diabetic, the androgel WILL NOT be absorbed....

phats

[gsxr750]

Think I remember my doc saying the same thing, don't remember explanation though.

[Bowlcut]

I got torsioned testicles that never recovered. 3 years of depression was enough for me to start my own HRT and I have been living large since.

Best thing to do is go get blood work when you are in PCT and there is "proof" your levels are low. That or be honest with the doc.

[phatkid77]

just know im right...google it if you want...haha

[Durk]

I have varacose veins around my left testicle. Even though I have never been tested my doc said it could cause low test and infertility. The funny thing is for me I am still horny and still get boners easy even when I am just starting pct. Dunno if symptoms very from person to person, but I thought it is sorta weird that I dont even experience some of the shit normal guys on gear do.

[GTZ3]

Liar. You've been on the pimp juice since you were 7. Just ask your Dad.. Blahahah!

hahaha

[big_luse]

Liar. You've been on the pimp juice since you were 7. Just ask your Dad.. Blahahah!

daddy always said the pentagon shaped pink ones were energy pills ... lol. They were driving creatine down my throat when it first came out though - in PeeWee I went from 114lbs start of season to 140lbs by the end of season, but as I do today on creatine I was bloated as a dead manatee washed up on shore.

[wrought]

i have all my labs luse.. but yeah, 12 is low..for sure..age??

mine hovered between 10.4 and 11.4, when i was prescribed "i think" it spike to 12 something....

phats

Mine came back at 36 on the new 31-94 range, basically around an 11 on the old scale and the urologist who had the testing done kicked me out of his office because I was within the "normal" range.

The moral of this story, some doctors are simply useless and you should be prepared to visit a bunch of them before you actually find somebody who isn't a complete tool.

[RagingRandy]

Mine came back at 36 on the new 31-94 range, basically around an 11 on the old scale and the urologist who had the testing done kicked me out of his office because I was within the "normal" range.

The moral of this story, some doctors are simply useless and you should be prepared to visit a bunch of them before you actually find somebody who isn't a complete tool.

The problem with that logic is that Test is at its highest in the morning. For that reason, that is when they will ask you to be tested. By the afternoon you will surely be in the low range. Next time you are asked to have a blood test, if they do not indicate what time, go as late as you can. Actually, even if they tell you to go in the morning go at night anyway.

[gsxr750]

Yea tell them you work late and your morning is actually late afternoon ;)

[ZeOne]

OK, came back from the doctor. What a huge difference between the public and the private health care!

I was offered coffee and some healthy biscuits while waiting for my appointment because I came in a bit early. At 4 exactly the doc called me in to his office.

I stayed there for 1 hour and a half, no rush, I asked him a lot of questions to which he answered with a great deal of knowledge.

Now concerning the test issue, I was somewhat honest with him. He asked me if I was taking AAS right now, I said no, but I did take it in the past, and it did help me a lot with my low test syndromes. So he said that I might need a HRT, but he would like to see my values via a blood work before, which makes sens.

So I will schedule some blood test to be done after PCT and see if he will recommend a TRT. He also talked to me about HCG and all that stuff and how it helps re-establish normal testosterone production, etc...

And now I am on an Ultra fast/ Ultra slow insulin combo which will work much better for me than my previous insulin type.


All in all, it was money well spent. My family doctor would not answer most of my questions and the earliest appointment I could get is in 4 month.

[RagingRandy]

OK, came back from the doctor. What a huge difference between the public and the private health care!


Agreed on the private care. The clinic I went to cost $150. It was the best $150 I have ever spent.

[ZeOne]

Agreed on the private care. The clinic I went to cost $150. It was the best $150 I have ever spent.

Yep, that is exactly what I paid.

[gsxr750]

Same here, wish I woulda spent that $150 5 years ago.

[phatkid77]

fack, i dont even see this guy, yet i feel i should get a kickback from my referrals...lol

[Mr Ontario]

Keeping telling people and he will catch on.......takes one dumb ass to ruin it for the rest of us. :)


fack, i dont even see this guy, yet i feel i should get a kickback from my referrals...lol

[RagingRandy]

I don't think you should be doing referrals. If guys are not smart enough to find a doc on their own they can not be trusted with this info.

[phatkid77]

not tellin anyone, only solid bros i know from here...and i agree, the clinic is not too hard to find if one really needs it

fack, i researched this shit for 2yrs until someone listened....
if one is looking for a legit script "just cause"
A. i think you are SOL
B. 100mg a week is not worth the hassle..

phats

[Mr Ontario]

I just think it's for the #3-4 guys on here who really need. Not for it to be abused.


I don't think you should be doing referrals. If guys are not smart enough to find a doc on their own they can not be trusted with this info.

[RagingRandy]

not tellin anyone, only solid bros i know from here...and i agree, the clinic is not too hard to find if one really needs it

fack, i researched this shit for 2yrs until someone listened....
if one is looking for a legit script "just cause"
A. i think you are SOL
B. 100mg a week is not worth the hassle..

phats

Agreed

[ZeOne]

fack, i dont even see this guy, yet i feel i should get a kickback from my referrals...lol

phat, I doubt we have the same doctor, mine is in Montreal :)

[phatkid77]

no, i dont even go to the one im talking about,, montreal eh...

hes one of 2 good ones there...ahah

phats

ps
like i said, i researched ALOT...

[wrought]

The problem with that logic is that Test is at its highest in the morning. For that reason, that is when they will ask you to be tested. By the afternoon you will surely be in the low range. Next time you are asked to have a blood test, if they do not indicate what time, go as late as you can. Actually, even if they tell you to go in the morning go at night anyway.

hehe, and you can also get it lower by fasting the day of the test, getting tanked the night before the test, even making sure that you get the blood taken the day after your heaviest training day can help.

I would say train legs the night before, then go out and get loaded but don't eat anything. The next day take a couple of advils for the hangover, don't eat anything at all and get the blood taken as late in the day as possible.

Unfortunately if you're going in to check bioavailable test they will make you get the blood drawn before 10am.

....AND for anybody who feels they need this, you should definitely just make an appointment at a private clinic. Like Randy said, it will be the best $$$ you ever spent, the level of service and lack of bullshit is worth every penny.

[tony_canuck]

congrats on finding doctors that are smart enough to realize the positive health benefits of hrt.....are these clinics available in most big cities? i know for a fact my doc wouldn't even consider helping me....

[phatkid77]

am i google king, or are people lazier than me.....lol...

phats

http://www.andropause.ca/en/resources/

http://www.cssam.com/index.htm

http://www.issam.ch/

http://www.agingmale2006.com/default.asp

http://www.kenes.com/aging/cssam2/topics.asp im interested in the GH talks....