View Full Version : Oral only cutting cycle for buddy
Amoral
08-10-2008, 05:40 PM
My buddy has cycled before, but wants to drop from 220 to 190 for his wedding next year. Doesn't wanna poke cause wifey will prolly find the pins. Therefore, he wants to use orals only.
Looking for input as I've never done a cutting cycle let alone all orals.
What should we be looking at here if he's dead set on cycling?
Primo/Var/Winny?
Any input appreciated.
If he wants to cut jump on T3 and Clen, lot easier and cheaper. Also fix his diet if he is really out of shape. He can lose all the weight he wanted and gain it back before the weddding if his diet is crap.
Amoral
08-10-2008, 06:05 PM
So, Clen and T3 will do the trick alone? Well, along with proper diet, etc...
Does he have muscle to preserve or is he really out of shape and mostly fat? Im asking because T3 is highly catabolic and can eat muscle along with fat. If he wants to preserve his muscle just add a mild dose of anavar.
Amoral
08-10-2008, 06:53 PM
He's got muscle to preserve. But more fat to lose than most gym goers.
ECA + VAR works wonders for stomach fat IMO. (if cost is not the issue)
50mgs ed winny or Var for 6 weeks... - take 25mgs proviron @ dinner time every night and your boy wont lose libido while one either.
TBH the use of HCG probably isnt neccesary and nice little serm based pct is probably all hed need to bounce back.
Recovery from DHT based compounds is a ****ing breeze because you dont have an assload of estrogen to contend with post cycle.
no need for any drugs IMO, just a ECA stack with proper diet and exercise will do....an oral only cycle for losing weight is a waste of time, money whatever it could do healthwise to your body
tiramisu
08-10-2008, 07:30 PM
How about a 500 calorie daily deficit with a little extra one day a week just to keep the body happy and cardio 3-5 per week.
A guy should be able to lose about 40 pounds in 20 weeks with that recipe.
no need for any drugs IMO, just a ECA stack with proper diet and exercise will do....an oral only cycle for losing weight is a waste of time, money whatever it could do healthwise to your body
I agree with you bro, but AAS and or ECA used properly with good diet will no doubt speed up fat loss, and lets face it, everyone wants to see results fast....
Amoral
08-10-2008, 07:50 PM
no need for any drugs IMO, just a ECA stack with proper diet and exercise will do....an oral only cycle for losing weight is a waste of time, money whatever it could do healthwise to your body
That's what I was thinking too, but he's pretty set on this and I'd at least like to give him some helpful pointers instead of letting him just go nuts
That's what I was thinking too, but he's pretty set on this and I'd at least like to give him some helpful pointers instead of letting him just go nuts
Your a good friend. Help him, lead him to the right track but make sure he does some research himself. You don't want to be blamed for anything.
go with var but run it for longer than 6 weeks at a lower dose...throw in some fenugreek and ECA and he wont even have to change his diet THAT much
sodium and carb deplete during the wedding and he'll have a nice skinny face for the millions of pictures about to be taken of him
Carbonbase
09-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Tell him to take all the money he would spend on drugs and have him see a professionnal BB that does diets. Messing arround with T3 and clen is dangerous. Most people looking for a quick fix will only get health issues by using those drugs. The best way to maintain health and loose weight is a good diet. ex, i lost 30 lbs and dropped from 21% to 11% in 8 weeks and only lost 1lbs of lean body mass. No drugs involved!
If he takes T3 and clen and continiues to eat like crap he will seriously **** up is health.
jethro1984
09-10-2008, 04:39 PM
Tell him to take all the money he would spend on drugs and have him see a professionnal BB that does diets. Messing arround with T3 and clen is dangerous. Most people looking for a quick fix will only get health issues by using those drugs. The best way to maintain health and loose weight is a good diet. ex, i lost 30 lbs and dropped from 21% to 11% in 8 weeks and only lost 1lbs of lean body mass. No drugs involved!
If he takes T3 and clen and continiues to eat like crap he will seriously **** up is health.
Ya I agree....for someone out of shape to be messing with T3 and clen, with no knowledge of it is asking for problems. He could permanantly **** his body up.
He has plenty of time to do it naturally with a good diet and workout program. repped for the little its worth lol
I've been getting good results the past few weeks just from proper diet and excersize without any drugs. That being said your friend would most likely see better results faster with the use of Anavar, Winny or even Dbol. Although some people may not think Dbol should be used while cutting. I think any steroid can be used to help preserve muscle while cutting even if you do gain water weight while your using it.
outshine
09-10-2008, 07:10 PM
clen/t3/winstrol. Its cheap and effective. The winstrol will drop a nice amount of water weight. But AAS doesn't burn fat, diet and cardio do.
Praetorian
09-10-2008, 10:15 PM
The most important factor is diet, cardio, and training. The other elements will only enhance the effect. ECA is not the wisest choice in fact it by now its probably so old school most guys in the know rarely use it. The rebound effect is terrible and CNS burnuout is not fun. The cortisol release associated with it will do more harm then any beneficial effects. Clebuterol is much safer the ECA and much more effective because it is a selective beta 2 agonist. The only issue with clen is the body attenuizes to it fairly quickly so if you plan on running it more than a few weeks ketotifen should be used concurrently. T3 works great in conjunction with Clen but will require an AAS to prevent muscle tissue loss. Never use T3 without either GH or AAS. The combo of T3 and clen as well as a decent oral (if he wont do injects...silly IMO) such as var, winny, dbol would be fine. All three are 17aa so 8 weeks should be about the max length cycle. Dbol is higher in androgens so will tend to be better for muscle retention but an anti e such as aromasin may be necessary to keep estro conversion minimized. Var and winny are great cosmetically due to their hardness effect on appearance but require a higher dosage. The best IMO would be Clen, T3, and some test prop...simple but very effective.
P
Amoral
09-10-2008, 11:43 PM
...silly IMO)
That's what I said lol. He's keen on the Winny, but I might recommend some Var instead and see what he says.
As for Aromasin...would Letro suffice? I've heard L is wayyyy better as an AI based on its gyno preventative effectiveness. Or is this complete and total BS
That's what I said lol. He's keen on the Winny, but I might recommend some Var instead and see what he says.
As for Aromasin...would Letro suffice? I've heard L is wayyyy better as an AI based on its gyno preventative effectiveness. Or is this complete and total BS
Letro is way too strong IMO, stick to arimidex or aromasin. If he is gonna use Var then nolva would be good enough.
big_luse
10-10-2008, 01:59 AM
^stay the **** away from Letrozole when approaching a wedding - it will ****ing demolish his sex drive. Aromasin would be a much better choice ... not only will your lipids not take a beating, but IGF1 levels actually will get a little boost.
Praetorian
10-10-2008, 09:38 AM
That's what I said lol. He's keen on the Winny, but I might recommend some Var instead and see what he says.
As for Aromasin...would Letro suffice? I've heard L is wayyyy better as an AI based on its gyno preventative effectiveness. Or is this complete and total BS
Letrozole (Femara) and Aromasin (Exemestane) are equally effective. One does not prevent gyno more than the other they both work on the same principle. They prevent the conversion of test to estrogen. The dosages are different as Letrozole comes in 2.5mg tabs and Aromasin comes in 25mg. Half a tab EOD is normally sufficient dosage to prevent any estro sides. Doing too much will drop tour estro too low and you will lose your sex drive and it also shunts gains on a gaining cycle. Avoid Arimidex as it does drive HDL down and can inhibit IGF-1 levels. Femara or Aromasin are fine.
P
Amoral
10-10-2008, 11:13 AM
Letrozole (Femara) and Aromasin (Exemestane) are equally effective. One does not prevent gyno more than the other they both work on the same principle. They prevent the conversion of test to estrogen. The dosages are different as Letrozole comes in 2.5mg tabs and Aromasin comes in 25mg. Half a tab EOD is normally sufficient dosage to prevent any estro sides. Doing too much will drop tour estro too low and you will lose your sex drive and it also shunts gains on a gaining cycle. Avoid Arimidex as it does drive HDL down and can inhibit IGF-1 levels. Femara or Aromasin are fine.
P
Yeah I was only under that assumption because so many guys swear by Letro. I've never used either, and still contemplating which one I'll go with, so might split a batch of A with buddy then. Thanks for all the help brotha
Tell him to take all the money he would spend on drugs and have him see a professionnal BB that does diets. Messing arround with T3 and clen is dangerous. Most people looking for a quick fix will only get health issues by using those drugs. The best way to maintain health and loose weight is a good diet. ex, i lost 30 lbs and dropped from 21% to 11% in 8 weeks and only lost 1lbs of lean body mass. No drugs involved!
If he takes T3 and clen and continiues to eat like crap he will seriously **** up is health.
You are dead on! T3 and Clen are way too dangerous for a novice to use, let alone someone with zero knowledge of AAS or Thermogenics and Thyroid drugs. There is absolutely no need for any harsh drugs like that. A very mild cycle of anavar is more than enough to speed up fat loss while building some muscle at the same time. He doesnt need any drugs at all to lose weight, but this thread was started to ask what orals will work best. The best oral IMO is still var, no side effects, good for stomach fat loss and very little if any rebound coming off. Listen to the guys warning you about those harsh compounds, they are compkletely unnecessary and bring too much risk.
GSNALTA
10-10-2008, 12:00 PM
I used winny 50mg/day and the eca stack 2X/day.I cut down on my carbs a little and it did the trick.I did var and 1 cycle i used 3 bottles,winny 1 bottle.$$$.Var is great but try the winny bro.
Amoral
10-10-2008, 07:41 PM
Anavar hands down the best oral only cutting cycle you can do.
50-60mg ED does wonders on BF.
Wicked, thanks meng. Getting pretty intriqued on this stuff myself now haha
td1111
12-10-2008, 07:34 PM
Nothing burns fat faster for me than daily cardio and a KETOGENIC diet, which is similar to the Palumbo diet. It really keeps hunger down and preserves muscle better than any other diet. Period.
Praetorian
13-10-2008, 03:13 PM
Letro is way too strong IMO, stick to arimidex or aromasin. If he is gonna use Var then nolva would be good enough.
Letro and exemestane are very similar compounds...the strength depends on the dosing and duration ...both work fine and are better than arimidex. He doesnt need an anti e unless hes using a high dose of test...if only var then they are unnecessary.
P
YThe best oral IMO is still var, no side effects, good for stomach fat loss and very little if any rebound coming off. Listen to the guys warning you about those harsh compounds, they are compkletely unnecessary and bring too much risk.
i have bloodwork that says var is harsh.....orals in general are harsh on the body......not only did it crush my hdl....but it elevated everything else as well......and i had bloodwork done a few days prior to taking the var when i just had test e. in my system and my bloodwork came back fine.....5 weeks later with the var in me.....everything was ****ed......man up and shoot some test......
BIGDADDY69
13-10-2008, 09:53 PM
simple, winny and anavar, CLen and T3...done deal
Praetorian
18-10-2008, 10:01 AM
i have bloodwork that says var is harsh.....orals in general are harsh on the body......not only did it crush my hdl....but it elevated everything else as well......and i had bloodwork done a few days prior to taking the var when i just had test e. in my system and my bloodwork came back fine.....5 weeks later with the var in me.....everything was ****ed......man up and shoot some test......
You are correct my friend. The notion that var is very safe is not correct. Var does not affect the HPTA much as opposed to higher androgenic compunds such as dbol, test etc. But it is still 17 alpha alkylated which means it is harsh on the liver hence your blood work. Novices are under the misconception that because the HPTA is not affected much the compund is perfectly safe...they are not correct.
P
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