Too much sets to failure ?

[TT Eric]

Hi Ted, I was wondering what is your thought on DY's BLood & guts training ? Only ONE working set per exercise after 1-2 warm-ups...

Actually doing ~16 out 16 workings sets to failure per training (+ the warm-ups), 4-5x per hard week and it seems to be taxing.

Yesterday I tried something similar to what DY's recommend in his videos and it felt good. I did 10 exercises, so 10 sets to failure with 1-2 warm-ups on each exercise before.

Eric

[Praetorian]

Most people dont realize or mistake DY training as one set to failure. This is far from the truth. Dorian himself has talked about how he did train with Mike Mentzer but he did not think his one set to failure was the answer. Dorian does 3-4 sets but only the last set is to failure and beyond, the previos sets still count as he is going close to failure but not failure itself. Most people jumped on the one set to failure bandwagon when Dorian was MR O as they misinterpreted what it was but it allowed them to be in and out of the gym quickly and thus making the training easier.

P

[TT Eric]

So I guess I got it right...

Out of curiosity, how many set do you do to failure per training ?

Eric

[Praetorian]

Not a whole lot at the moment. I tend to stop right before failure and use more volume and reps. As i get older I dont need to train as heavy and dont want to for risk of injury thus I use more volume, slightly higher reps and move my compound movements to the end of the workout. Sets per exercise are usually 4 working sets.

P

[TT Eric]

I see, thanks.

How much set to failure one should normally do ? Is going to failure on all sets on the hard week can be too much ?

My strength is continually fluctuating, but mostly going down since a year, especially on the bench. For example, my bench was at 275lbs last year, now I'm at ~225lbs, I'm lighter though. But what's weird is that a week I will lift a weight 7x for example and on the next training I can't do more then 4-5 reps, I've never experienced that much fluctuation. I thought that my CNS was drained, but if I take a break, like when going in vacation and not train for 10 days, I'm coming back even weaker. *

* Another example, is I took a 2 weeks off from squating (front squat), before I went to vacation I was able to do 245x2, 225x6, 205x10, 185x14, then after I came back, it dropped a lot, even after a month of training after the vacation I'm still far from I was squating, this week I was all in at 195x3, 175x8, 155x10... talk about a set back.

So I do not understand what happens... maybe I'm getting old and can't keep up.

Eric

[cog]

How old are you now?

[TT Eric]

44

Eric

[cog]

You're on the down slope.Things will get tougher yet.

[TT Eric]

Yeah I've notice, I thought I still had a couple of good years ahead, the thing is sometime I think I go too often to failure so I should back down... but when I do, my strength goes down even further. No sure what to do.

Eric

[cog]

Yeah I've notice, I thought I still had a couple of good years ahead, the thing is sometime I think I go too often to failure so I should back down... but when I do, my strength goes down even further. No sure what to do.

Eric

Upping your gh levels might help on their own,I noticed a difference back in 2009 without any added aas.

That would be the least disruptive to your system.

[TT Eric]

I'm natural. So no exo GH for me

Eric

[TT Eric]

I'm thinking about switching to 5/3/1. Training is only 4 times a week, only one set goes to failure, then you do ~10 working sets of ~10reps each on assistance movements like dips and chins, not sure if they are up to failure, but all in all it's what they call 'an economy training and training like that seems like a 'break' to me. I think I have floored the gas pedal a bit too much in the last years and need to back off a little. My only concern is I can't deadlift because of my back, maybe I can give a try again but with stiff legged DL starting at a higher level like just under the knees instead of trying to go very low and hurt myself.

Not sure what you guys think of Jim's method, someone had tried it for some time ?

Eric

[cog]

Is Wendler natty now?

[TT Eric]

Lol probably not, but I don't think it's reserve for gear only, also it looks like easier vs I actually do.

Eric

[Praetorian]

I'm thinking about switching to 5/3/1. Training is only 4 times a week, only one set goes to failure, then you do ~10 working sets of ~10reps each on assistance movements like dips and chins, not sure if they are up to failure, but all in all it's what they call 'an economy training and training like that seems like a 'break' to me. I think I have floored the gas pedal a bit too much in the last years and need to back off a little. My only concern is I can't deadlift because of my back, maybe I can give a try again but with stiff legged DL starting at a higher level like just under the knees instead of trying to go very low and hurt myself.

Not sure what you guys think of Jim's method, someone had tried it for some time ?

Eric


What I have learned over the years and years is that there is no special method. The program you use works if you put some thought and heart into it. I can take a guy and put him on the 5x5 method or the 5-3-1 method and his training will completely suck. Reason being there is no heart involved, no intensity, no drive beyond what most people think is drive. I havent used anyones method since day one of training. Ive looked at multiple ways to train ie Dorians, Mentzers, Girondas, Simmons, Tate, etc and taken bits from each and developed my own.

Currently at 47 I have revised my training to be joint friendly and very efficient. I train 4 days per week and rarely go to failure but use slightly more volume and reps. More unilateral training which really helps the joints and more pre-exhaust as well. I also limit compound movements to the end of my workout and i rarely squat or deadlift anymore. One guy I have followed who is in the same boat as me is John Meadows...he has some great training ideas to keep intensity up without having to do heavy compound movements. He also doesnt dead lift or squat anymore.

P

[TT Eric]

I've been doing quite a lot of reading this week-end and from I can see, I might have done way too much sets to failure, too much intensity, too much all-in. I was reading the article posted on T-nation by Sverre Diesen and basically he's proposing a program where you only go to failure once per 3 weeks on the bench press, remaining of the time are 5 rep sets with 50-70% of 1RM. Normally I would do a dozens set to failure on the bench in that period of time, without calculating the sets to failure on DB press, dips, etc.. Many guys I've been reading lately says most people do too much sets to failure, go nowhere and should back off. I realize it's probably my case.

I do also believe there is no special method, like 5/3/1 is not the miracle routine of course, but maybe an example for me to learn from, to restrain myself from doing too much.

Eric

[Praetorian]

What people need to realize is that training changes as you age. You cannot train as you did at 25 years old now that you are 40 etc. Training is an evolution so saying you should only train to failiure once every three weeks or every workout doesnt mean anything. You need to put that into context. Young guys starting out with less then 5 years of training can train to failure much more frequently and still recover fine. As you get stronger again your training changes because moving heavier weight in essence increases intensity. So one cannot say to train to failure x amount it must be used in conjunction with where you are in regards to training. I dont need to increase my strength any longer Ive already hit weights that are heavy enough to impart serious injury at my age so my training changes. When i was young i trained every set to failure, trained 6 days per week, 3 hours per workout and grew like a weed and hit a 2000lb total in the big three lifts all raw. But if I tried to train like that now I would be in the hospital. The body can only take so much as you get older and out years of training under your belt. It is about training smarter not necessarily harder.

P

[TT Eric]

Make sense, I'm guessing at this point, since you know your body, you have to be more intuitive and listen it.

Eric

[Praetorian]

Very true!

P