Torn triceps and torn lat !

[Hosehead]

So I had left elbow surgery yesterday to remove my bursa and while the surgeon was in there he discovered a torn distal tricep tendon. I did it performing heavy one arm db extensions about 3 months ago. When I initially saw him regarding the removal of the bursa he said i did not have a torn tricep based on a few pushing exercises and the fact that I had full ROM and little pain. Turns out he was wrong! I was stoned in the recovery room and didnt remember to ask him anything regarding rehab times . I also might have a torn right lat or a pinched nerve that is causing the lat to not flare . Strangely enough there is no pain or loss of function with the lat ! I have full strength except that i have difficulty lifting my right arm above my shoulder . Anyone have either of these injuries ? I'm getting chiropractic and ART for the lat issue but nothing for the tricep until I get the cast off next week. I am running 2iu GH and 20 IU IGF 1L3 currently. Gonna start swimming in a few weeks. If I didnt have a beautiful little 16 month old I'd take permanent swim.

[Praetorian]

You may want to get ultrasound or mri to check out the lat just to be sure. Did he fix the triceps?

P

[Hosehead]

yeah he did repair it. the post op report said the tear was a depth tear as opposed to a horizontal tear.

[Praetorian]

That should be a fairly quick rehab.

P

[Hosehead]

That should be a fairly quick rehab.

P

Think so ? He said it would likely be four months before it felt strong and I have no idea what strong means to him.The post op report also says that he shaved off bone spurs and trimmed some scar tissue out. So he did four things instead of the one the one thing he knew he'd do (bursectomy). What makes you think it should be a fairly quick rehab ? I am an eternal pessimist but am hoping that I can be back to 100% strength and function by May at the latest. I plan on running the GH for six months or more with the IGF . Should I take a break from the IGF or run it non stop ? Should I run any AAS once I start lifting again or is it pointless ? I dont want to get ahead of the strengthening of the tendon. Also , he said that the bursa will regenerate itself - will upping the GH do anything in that regard or keep it at 2IU ? Thanks Prae .

Edit - I heal very quickly . Apparently people of Mediterranean backgrounds are known for this but the medical community has no idea why.

[Praetorian]

Most surgeons are overly cautious and tend to give extended recovery periods. My proximal biceps rupture was repaired June 5 and by September i was training again, lightly but none the less. The surgeon suggested it would take 6 months but at the moment I can say it feels fully healed. Not saying you should rush it but take it slow and dont get discouraged. IGF should be run 4 weeks on 4 weeks off for 3-4 cycles then a few months off. Kep the gh at 2iu more is not necessarily better. I would stay off aas for now as that may just make you want to push more and cause issues. Try adding a good joint formula Glucosamin 2000mg, Chondroitin 2000mg, and MSM 2000mg twice daily.

P

[Primal]

So I had left elbow surgery yesterday to remove my bursa and while the surgeon was in there he discovered a torn distal tricep tendon. I did it performing heavy one arm db extensions about 3 months ago. When I initially saw him regarding the removal of the bursa he said i did not have a torn tricep based on a few pushing exercises and the fact that I had full ROM and little pain. Turns out he was wrong! I was stoned in the recovery room and didnt remember to ask him anything regarding rehab times . I also might have a torn right lat or a pinched nerve that is causing the lat to not flare . Strangely enough there is no pain or loss of function with the lat ! I have full strength except that i have difficulty lifting my right arm above my shoulder . Anyone have either of these injuries ? I'm getting chiropractic and ART for the lat issue but nothing for the tricep until I get the cast off next week. I am running 2iu GH and 20 IU IGF 1L3 currently. Gonna start swimming in a few weeks. If I didnt have a beautiful little 16 month old I'd take permanent swim.

Hey Hosehead, sorry to hear about the tricep but at least you got the spurrs off right? That should help with the pain hopefully! How you described your lat problem reminded me of a some stuff I learned about last year. It sorta sounds a bit like potential long thoracic nerve damage? The long thoracic nerve runs along the seratus and is very open to injury because of how long the nerve is and how close it rests to the skin. If you look it up, you'll see a lot of people with the winged scapula condition but I'm pretty sure you could tell if you had that. My anatomy prof actually injured it many years before and when she was teaching us she stopped and showed us her mobility of one of her arms. She physically could not get her arm past her shoulder level as well... just stopped dead there. Apparently there is no pain associated with it (for her at least) and mobility below the shoulder level is fine. If that nerve is pinched, maybe you could have decreased mobility in the flaring of your lats? Not saying it could be at all, but it does sound slightly familiar and it's something you could get just asked to get checked for easily I assume. Just my 2 cents... don't have to roll with it if you want.

Stay strong man! All the best for your recovery! :)

-Primal

[Hosehead]

Hey Hosehead, sorry to hear about the tricep but at least you got the spurrs off right? That should help with the pain hopefully! How you described your lat problem reminded me of a some stuff I learned about last year. It sorta sounds a bit like potential long thoracic nerve damage? The long thoracic nerve runs along the seratus and is very open to injury because of how long the nerve is and how close it rests to the skin. If you look it up, you'll see a lot of people with the winged scapula condition but I'm pretty sure you could tell if you had that. My anatomy prof actually injured it many years before and when she was teaching us she stopped and showed us her mobility of one of her arms. She physically could not get her arm past her shoulder level as well... just stopped dead there. Apparently there is no pain associated with it (for her at least) and mobility below the shoulder level is fine. If that nerve is pinched, maybe you could have decreased mobility in the flaring of your lats? Not saying it could be at all, but it does sound slightly familiar and it's something you could get just asked to get checked for easily I assume. Just my 2 cents... don't have to roll with it if you want.

Stay strong man! All the best for your recovery! :)

-Primal

I believe that is exactly what I have done !GOOD CALL !

[Primal]

Anything to help! :)

-Primal

[Hosehead]

Getting the cast off Friday. Going ****ing nuts. Losing size like crazy.

[Praetorian]

Relax you aren't losing size like you think...the psychological effect is generally worse then the physical.

P

[Hosehead]

Relax you aren't losing size like you think...the psychological effect is generally worse then the physical.

P

down from 230 the day of surgery to 220. Legs are still good lol. So the surgeon ended up drilling holes in the bone n order to anchor the tricep a little better given my activity level. Guess he figures I'll be harder on myself than non lifters. I have virtually no ROM in the arm yet, he's saying it may well be a full year before I'm 100%. I hope the gh and a good diet moves that number forward. They want no resistance exercise until 6 weeks post op.

[Praetorian]

I had absolutely no resistance exercise post op for 12 full weeks...the surgeon said my biceps looked like a frayed winch cable. Very light resistance after that for 4 more weeks...no weights just light bands. Light resistance with weights started late Sept,,,surgery was June 5. By End of November early December i was curling 50lb dumbbells and doing free bar incline presses the last exercise for chest at 315lbs for reps...feeling pretty good. Ypou should recover faster than I did.

P

[Hosehead]

I had absolutely no resistance exercise post op for 12 full weeks...the surgeon said my biceps looked like a frayed winch cable. Very light resistance after that for 4 more weeks...no weights just light bands. Light resistance with weights started late Sept,,,surgery was June 5. By End of November early December i was curling 50lb dumbbells and doing free bar incline presses the last exercise for chest at 315lbs for reps...feeling pretty good. Ypou should recover faster than I did.

P

Wouldn't I be at a disadvantage with the repair being triceps vs biceps ? Meaning the tris role in pushing ? I don't use 315 for bench anymore anyhow but I would think that it's easier on a bicep repair than a tricep and vice versa for me being able to train bis sooner than you ? Am I wrong ? So it took you a full six months for you to be able to lift a portion of what you normally do ? Was yours a complete or partial tear ?

[Praetorian]

Most surgeons are over cautious so one year IMO is way too long. I have had three biceps tendon tears in my life so far...two full and one partial. Full tears take longer to heal and require more rehab. However if the tear was fairly clean ie not frayed like mine then recovery is much quicker. When they anchor the tendon to the bone and the bone encapsulates the end with the anchor it becomes very strong. Whether you are pushing or pulling really shouldnt matter. After a biceps tear i am still bent rowing 315 so there is quite a bit of stress while pulling even compared to benching.

I would say 6 months and you will be good to go.

P

[Hosehead]

Most surgeons are over cautious so one year IMO is way too long. I have had three biceps tendon tears in my life so far...two full and one partial. Full tears take longer to heal and require more rehab. However if the tear was fairly clean ie not frayed like mine then recovery is much quicker. When they anchor the tendon to the bone and the bone encapsulates the end with the anchor it becomes very strong. Whether you are pushing or pulling really shouldnt matter. After a biceps tear i am still bent rowing 315 so there is quite a bit of stress while pulling even compared to benching.

I would say 6 months and you will be good to go.

P


**** me your numbers are scary . Six months sounds like forever but I will try not to push things. I'm staying with the gh and IGF 1LR3 protocol and I'm adding some BPC 157 site injections next week. I'm sceptical of its efficacy but I'll try anything at this point. I'm hoping to be lifting at 75% by the six month mark - June . The winged scapula / serratus anterior issue is a bigger concern as long thoracic nerve damage is hard to measure in terms of mild to severe. Also , some say exercise will benefit it and others say the opposite. It can lead to permanent paralysis. This I'm scared about. I can
t train upper body anyhow so I guess I'll find out if rest works best. Right now I'm using a chiro and a PT and both are using current to free up the nerve.

[Praetorian]

IMO exercise always trumps immobility. The body is made to move and heals much faster with movement. It doesnt have to be resisted movement however any type is better then none. Movement allows for more blood flow, more waste products can be removed from the area, and thus healing improves and is much faster. Six months may sound long but that is back to lifting the weights i was prior to the injury. I was back lifting lighter weights within 12 weeks. So it is a progression starting light and slowly increasing as the area gets stronger.

P

[Hosehead]

My ART therapist is having me do partial movements inside of what my rom currently is. He is also telling me to massage the tricep which is essentially just flapping in the wind. Says it will help the tricep fire up sooner. After reading some of the recovery times online I get a little anxious. As you said , most surgeons deal with regular people and are very conservative. Mine told me on two initial visits that I DID NOT have a torn tricep or I wouldn't be passing his in office push tests. I knew I had one. It looked ****ed up, I heard the pop when I did it and I know what I am capable of when healthy. One thing I will never do again is get a cortisone shot in the joint. I tore it the first time I trained tris after getting it. I had all the signs that lead to this injury - recent cortisone shot , being on cycle way too long , bone spurs and bursitis PLUS tendonosis. If anyone was gonna do it it was gonna be me. Live and learn to listen to your body !

[Hosehead]

A little update on my progress : after having surgery on Dec 10th to repair the tricep , take the bursa out , shave off the bone spurs , I am now lifting light weights. I am well ahead of schedule. My therapist and surgeon did not want me doing any resistance training i.e. bands until March. I've already had two bench press sessions in the last ten days. First time I maxed out at 95lbsx20 and last time I managed 125x12 and could have done more weight and reps. I'm also curling the 20's with little effort and am doing some rowing exercises. Bent rows with 135. I will back off a bit and maybe just add 20lbs per week. I'm getting no soreness but there is a lot of crunching going on in there.The arm itself almost looks as healthy as my good arm.
During the rehab I have supplemented with MSM (as per Prae), Glucosamine Sulfate, vitamin C, E , Magnesium, chondroitin,fish oil and GH at 2IU daily. My therapist could not believe how quickly my scar has healed and how fast the elbow is coming in general. I see the surgeon on the 23rd of this month and I'm sure he will be surprised. If not for my nerve damage on the other side I would say I could be 100% back to where I left off by June but that won't be happening. This nerve issue may be permanent but I have my fingers crossed.

[Praetorian]

Sounds good just be patient and dont push too hard too soon. Plenty of time to train once you get the go ahead.

P

[Hosehead]

Thanks Prae. Did 135x18 flat bench yesterday. I am going to knock it off until April, I think I'm going too quick

[cog]

Any updates?

[Hosehead]

Well it's been 10 months since the surgery and my elbow is pretty much 100% . The nerve damage to the long thoracic nerve is still the same but I have trained around it. Can not really train shoulders like I once did - I had very strong shoulders IMO - because I have no right lat and my shoulder blade protrudes unless I brace it up against a high bench when overhead pressing. Even then I have to adjust the bench so it is on a less steep angle - almost like a steep incline bench. As a result I am not able to push the old poundages on flat and incline barbell, even though I am on a decent cycle. But the elbow healed up nice . No more heavy one arm overhead DB extensions and no skulls of course - I am 46 .
If anyone needs tendon repair I highly suggest MSM as per Prae and HGH at a low dose. My surgeon could not believe how quickly I recovered , even for a seasoned lifter. The scar is barely visible and it was a very intrusive procedure. I have learned to train smarter and lighter , which is inevitable given my age. Due to the nerve injury I try to not load the spine with heavy stuff and make things worse . I did get an itch to free squat last week and after 9 months I did 315x8 with good form to parallel and my joints felt great because of the layoff. No more deads though and they were my fav. Shitty.

[TT Eric]

I hear you, getting older is felt even thought you think you are young in your head, the body reminds you to don't push it too much! Glad for the elbow!

Eric

[Primal]

Good to hear an update Hosehead, and glad the elbow is back to 100%. Sounds like the nerve damage will take a longer time to heal but I'm sure it'll get better soon.

-Primal