Libido/ED issues after dropping tren ace from cycle

[Hosehead]

I was four weeks into the following 10 week cycle : :

300mg deca
750mg test e
75mg tren ace EOD with pramipexole .5mg daily

In the middle of the fourth week I dropped the tren ace as I injured my elbow once again and I am unable to do any pressing movements whatsoever. I see the surgeon again in a few weeks to talk him into removing my bone spurs and fixing anything else in there that needs it. I continued on with the test e and deca as I this combo has worked in the past to some degree in helping the healing process. The tren ace seemed to be hard on my joints and i figured it'd be out of my system quickly so I dropped it along with the pramipexole. I can sure notice the difference. No sex drive and I am having ED issues despite the fact that I am taking cialis. How do I rectify this ? I would at least like to finish the rest of the cycle. The pramipexole was working well , never slept better in my life and not much sweating at all. Should I just continue on with the pram ?
It should be noted that i have not come off entirely in two years. I bridge between 'cycles' with 325 mg test e for 6-weeks. So yes , no proper PCT for two years. Getting blood work done in a few weeks. Thanks in advance Prae.

Edit : also , I have two kits of GH on hand. Is there any point on using them pre surgery or should i just wait post surgery ? Besides bone spurs I have tricep tendonosis and bursitis. The bursitis can't get better as it's a direct result of the existence of the bone spurs. ART had had no effect on it for two years now.ART seems to be effective to some degree for the tendonosis. I used GH at 2IU prior to a meniscus surgery a few years ago leading up to surgery and it did wonders for healing.

[scottlove]

That's funny, when i used tren the opposite happened. I'd go limp biscuit right in the middle of the action.........I swear honey, this has never happened before.

[Hosehead]

*

[Hosehead]

When I was on tren I was ON. Hard as rock all the time , no cialis needed. I am wondering if it's not so much the absence of the tren as it's the absence of the pramipexole . Pram can produce hyperalgesia , which can cause pain that is out of proportion to the condition. In my case it's hard to know as I do have a few conditions going on in my elbow and I genrally have a high pain tolerance , if you believe that pain tolerance can be measured. Right now I barely tolerate it physically , less much mentally.

[scottlove]

That's shitty, a jacked-up elbow can ruin pretty much every workout, except legs. Pretty tough to work around it.

[Praetorian]

Removing the tren will no doubt cause a lowered libido as it is a few times stronger androgenic wise than test. Ive seen this many times. ALso the tren is not hard on joints at all that is something else. I would suggest since you are having all kinds of joint issues etc to drop the pram and the deca...just run the test which should alleviate the libido issue...and ease up on training a bit and get the issues looked at. The GH you could start at 2iu per day just to aid in joint issues and libido.,..it does help with sex drive. Take the cialis the night before at bedtime and you will notice an increase in libido the next day. Then you can take one a half hour before sex.

The thing is androgens can affect people differently....with test some have high libido up to a certain dosage then it drops off. With tren some are crazy horny others it kills libido totally.

P

[Hosehead]

[QUOTE=Praetorian;451561]Removing the tren will no doubt cause a lowered libido as it is a few times stronger androgenic wise than test. Ive seen this many times. ALso the tren is not hard on joints at all that is something else. I would suggest since you are having all kinds of joint issues etc to drop the pram and the deca...just run the test which should alleviate the libido issue...and ease up on training a bit and get the issues looked at. The GH you could start at 2iu per day just to aid in joint issues and libido.,..it does help with sex drive. Take the cialis the night before at bedtime and you will notice an increase in libido the next day. Then you can take one a half hour before sex.

The thing is androgens can affect people differently....with test some have high libido up to a certain dosage then it drops off. With tren some are crazy horny others it kills libido totally.

P[/QU

Thanks again Prae. I'm feeling the libido coming back a tad. As for the elbow issues , which are a much greater concern - I will be having surgery. Just waiting for a date. The bone spurs won't fix themselves obviously. In the meantime I think that I could help speed up the tendon repair significantly pre surgery. Did it with my meniscus at just 2 IU daily for 50 days and I was squatting 315 for reps the day before. IMO the stuff worked wonders. This time I'm taking a whole month off upper body and plan on running some low dose test with GH and IGF 1 LR3. Any suggestions on the dosage of IGF 1 LR3 ? Anecdotally there are many different protocals out there. Some as low as 40mcg and some as high as 200mcg daily. I see now upon reading in the hormone profiles that IronWill liked 20mcg post workout with protein /carbs at 80/60. Since I will not be training anything but legs for the first month of the protocol should I be concerned about taking the IGF 1LR3 with food or simply upon waking with the HGH ? Any point in adding slin in there ? Thanks in advance

[Want2lift]

Make sure your test is HRT low. Hugh then normal test levels will slow down collagen synthesis. GH and IGF sound like great ideas.

[Hosehead]

Make sure your test is HRT low. Hugh then normal test levels will slow down collagen synthesis. GH and IGF sound like great ideas.

I had never heard that before. I was planning on running 300-350 test e .

[cog]

I had never heard that before. I was planning on running 300-350 test e .


iIRC,Nate mentioned test over 300 slows collagen synthesis a few years back.

[Want2lift]

I had read anything over 200mgs, basically anything higher then what would put you at the top end of normal. Would be nice to see some evidence on this topic.

[Hosehead]

I don't doubt that , but I have always read that test was pretty much necessary to maximize any gains from GH and IGF 1LR3 , whether you are dosing for fat loss, size or injury repair. I have never read anything specific on dosage though. Just waiting for Prae to chime in...............

[Hosehead]

[QUOTE=Want2lift;451583]I had read anything over 200mgs, basically anything higher then what would put you at the top end of normal. Would be nice to see some evidence on this topic.[/QUOT

I found one ten year old study that affirms what you said but it involves type 2 collagen and they studied the efficacy of stanazolol/deca/testosterone on dermal fybroblasts. Tendons/ligaments are 85-90% type 3 collagen so that study , which seems to be rehashed on a few different forums , isn't exactly conclusive. But I'd like to hear more on the topic soon as I am still on 500mg test e weekly and want to start my GH ASAP ! When I ran 2 IU daily before my meniscus surgery I was on test and deca. Probably 750/300.

[Praetorian]

Yes test over approx 200-300mg weekly can affect collagen synthesis. This can be overcome easily by adding in a lower dose of EQ which is probably the best at increasing levels. For GH I would suggest a low dose but longer duration ie 2iu with breakfast only. If you are going to add IGF-1 LR3 then you need to run it correctly or you are wasting time and money. The body attenuates to LR3 extremely quickly and this is only exaggerated if a higher dose is used. A dosage of 50mcg daily will cause attenuation in only a few days. Best results like anything ergogenic come from an optimum dose for an optimum duration. What has shown to be most effective is 10-12mcg twice daily...morning and post workout for 4 weeks then take 2 weeks off then 4 weeks on and another 2 weeks off then another 4 weeks on. This will give you 12 weeks on with little to no attenuation. I find that LR3 seems to work better when combined with GH...but that's anecdotal.

Deca and EQ will improve collagen synthesis and counter any test issues with it. EQ is a bit better but either will work. For joints and tendons what really helped me previously was Adequan but it seems to be hard to get theses days now that Canadians need a script to get it from the US...previously you did not.

Insulin will not really help the only reason you may want to use it would be to counter insulin resistance from prolonged GH use...however at the low 2iu dosage once per day I dont see that being an issue.

P

[Hosehead]

Yes test over approx 200-300mg weekly can affect collagen synthesis. This can be overcome easily by adding in a lower dose of EQ which is probably the best at increasing levels. For GH I would suggest a low dose but longer duration ie 2iu with breakfast only. If you are going to add IGF-1 LR3 then you need to run it correctly or you are wasting time and money. The body attenuates to LR3 extremely quickly and this is only exaggerated if a higher dose is used. A dosage of 50mcg daily will cause attenuation in only a few days. Best results like anything ergogenic come from an optimum dose for an optimum duration. What has shown to be most effective is 10-12mcg twice daily...morning and post workout for 4 weeks then take 2 weeks off then 4 weeks on and another 2 weeks off then another 4 weeks on. This will give you 12 weeks on with little to no attenuation. I find that LR3 seems to work better when combined with GH...but that's anecdotal.

Deca and EQ will improve collagen synthesis and counter any test issues with it. EQ is a bit better but either will work. For joints and tendons what really helped me previously was Adequan but it seems to be hard to get theses days now that Canadians need a script to get it from the US...previously you did not.

Insulin will not really help the only reason you may want to use it would be to counter insulin resistance from prolonged GH use...however at the low 2iu dosage once per day I dont see that being an issue.

P

Thanks Prae. I'll lower the test immediately. How much EQ do you consider to be a low dose ? Would it simply make more sense to do a full PCT at this point or just stick with a low trt test and eq ?

[Mr Pickles]

If you'll be getting your blood checked anyways, ask the doc to check your prolactin.

Mine is elevated from a psych medication and shut down my sex drive. Test was down to 150 as well.

Went off the medication, on bromo .5mg ED and after a few months, test was at 590 but still no sex drive. Prolactin, lower, but still high.

It sucks. I just got new insurance and they will pay for caber (the other company would not). Hofefully this will beat down the prolactin and get back normal.

[Praetorian]

IMO 200-300 a week i slow for EQ. I always recommend full PCT after a cycle if maintaining a healthy lipid profile and endocrine system is important to you. If you have determined that endo test levels are low and will not recover back to normal than TRT is fine.

Prolactin levels can suppress libido and make recovery difficult however keeping estrogen levels in check will generally prevent prolactin from becoming a problem.

P

[Odysseus]

... I always recommend full PCT after a cycle if maintaining a healthy lipid profile

I've always wondered - how do pros and other athletes who stay on close to year round maintain healthy cholesterol levels? Wouldn't their HDL be completely shot and their LDL through the roof? And how do they keep their immune systems strong when they're on for such a sustained period of time?

[Praetorian]

Depends on the person and also their diet. I have never had any cholesterol issues and have used on and off for many years. Nolvadex also keeps HDL in check at a relatively low dose daily. LDL generally doesnt rise too much if you watch your sugar intake.

P