Pre contest cycle and long esters

[Want2lift]

What are your thoughts on long esters leading up to a contest? I am planning on running profina (100test p/100tren a) and another blend of 100test p and 100 mast prop. 500 is my top end a week for Tren. Was thinking of running the mast at 600. That puts me at 500 Tren, 600 mast and 1100 test. Should I be adding more test to this? If so, should I just be adding prop or van I add some long estered test? Would bloat be an issue if I use a longer ester? Also, any thoughts on my cycle would be welcome. Laid out it looks like this;

Will be coming off a blast of long estered test at 1000-1500mgs a week
Planning on stopping that about 10 weeks out and switching to 500 Tren A, 600 mast P and 1100 test P.

Nothing set in stone yet just thinking ahead.

[Praetorian]

Long ester test has been the standard for contest prep for some time now. With the advent of second and third generation AI's there is really no reason to use short ester at all and blood levels will be much more stable on long ester if used EOD. A standard cycle(16 weeks prcontest) for a National level competitor would look something like this:

week 1-8 test cypionate 250-300mg EOD
week 9-16 test enanthate 250-300mg EOD
week 1-8 deca or EQ 600mg weekly
week 9-16 tren 75-100mg EOD
week 11-16 winstrol depot 50mg ED

Masteron could be used with or in place of the winstrol however winstrol just seems to do a much better job at cosmetic hardening (that is if you are below 6% approx)

Remember these compounds and dosages are for a national level competitor most likely competing in the HW or SHW classes. This is not a level one contest cycle and guys at this level have competed multiple times before just to qualify for the nationals.

ALso do not think for a second that this cycle will make you look fantastic if your diet, cardio, and training suck. The point being if you cannot get into contest shape on 500mg test per week then your cycle is the least of your worries!

P

[Want2lift]

Thanks Prae!!

[InkedSailor]

Do you think that's the regular standard for national bodybuilders, cause that seems like a very noncompetitive cycle.... the guys i know which placed very well at nats were taking a lot more....

[natenator]

Do you think that's the regular standard for national bodybuilders, cause that seems like a very noncompetitive cycle.... the guys i know which placed very well at nats were taking a lot more....

Just because they're using the kitchen sink approach doesn't mean its more effective than taking less. The drugs used, more or less, are simply aids in helping us hold onto the muscle we have while dieting. Its an extremely catabolic process for which the hormones we take seek to ameliorate that effect as they have virtually no direct effect on adipose and given most will be in a caloric deficit while dieting it is unlikely that muscle gain (growing into a show) will be achieved either.

So the question asked is: how much is enough to hold onto the muscle we have while dieting? I don't know the answer to that as it would be very individualist and more importantly, require a systematic process to determine for an individual. However, because it is unlikely that someone knows how much is enough to maintain LMB while dieting most just wing it with "if I take more then I will retain more" despite the fact that type of diet, cardio type, training style, etc all play a factor in how well one retains LBM.

Someone may be taking more but that doesn't mean its optimal just just like someone can starve themselves into shape but that doesn't make it optimal.

[InkedSailor]

I a hundred percent agree with you nate, and i get that but what prae said just seemed low is all, im not saying that wouldnt be enough just doesnt seem like it, seems more like a top provincial contender cycle... i was expecting to see a lot more compounds added in that pre cycle especially the last 4-6 weeks, usually what guys around here use mast, proviron, tren ace, test prop adding in halo the last 3 weeks and all your suspension based products, thats not even getting into the peptide end of it. Im not saying im a guru and maybe what prae said is good for somebody gentically gifted or a black guy just the white boys i know are using all those compounds in much higher doses.

[natenator]

I a hundred percent agree with you nate, and i get that but what prae said just seemed low is all, im not saying that wouldnt be enough just doesnt seem like it, seems more like a top provincial contender cycle... i was expecting to see a lot more compounds added in that pre cycle especially the last 4-6 weeks, usually what guys around here use mast, proviron, tren ace, test prop adding in halo the last 3 weeks and all your suspension based products, thats not even getting into the peptide end of it. Im not saying im a guru and maybe what prae said is good for somebody gentically gifted or a black guy just the white boys i know are using all those compounds in much higher doses.

Again, I go back to the question of how much is enough to accomplish the purpose of ASS during prep? We aren't dealing with the scientific method here to find what is optimal so most will automatically default to "more is better" approach. 99% of people aren't using the doses they do because they KNOW for certain it is what they need. They are simply doing what humans do.

I am willing to bet on a random sample of competing bodybuilders if you were to use Ted's cycle as a control group and double the amount for the intervention group that you'd find fairly similar results across the board. Few of us really know what we truly need/can get away with to achieve our objectives.

[Praetorian]

I a hundred percent agree with you nate, and i get that but what prae said just seemed low is all, im not saying that wouldnt be enough just doesnt seem like it, seems more like a top provincial contender cycle... i was expecting to see a lot more compounds added in that pre cycle especially the last 4-6 weeks, usually what guys around here use mast, proviron, tren ace, test prop adding in halo the last 3 weeks and all your suspension based products, thats not even getting into the peptide end of it. Im not saying im a guru and maybe what prae said is good for somebody gentically gifted or a black guy just the white boys i know are using all those compounds in much higher doses.

Some guys use a tonne of gear and some more educated do not. As Nate said you are not going to look better or be bigger etc just because you used more gear...that idea is purely based in not understanding how these drugs work and fear...ie the other guy is using more so I need to. This is very common in the pro ranks as well. The cycle I posted is all that is necessary to come in at your best irregardless of your genetic predisposition. You can add GH to that as well as T3 and Clen etc but in my post I was stating strictly androgens. Using more than 1000-1200mg test per week is just a waste of money. The performance enhancement effects compared to the negative sides when graphed is a hockey stick curve and once you reach this range the sides increase dramatically with very negligible positive effects. Also using proviron or prop is quite redundant and a complete waste of money being that as i said second and third generation AI's have been available for years. This just illustrates the complete lack of education when it comes to aas. As for peptides don't even get me started on that crap. The cycle I posted is quite commonly prescribed by in the know guys who have worked with many pros and amateurs...ie Dave Palumbo, George Farah etc. Yes some add halo the last 3-4 weeks and if it was available I would probably use it as well but good luck finding it now. The basis of a precontest cycle is a test base, an anabolic for the first 8 weeks switched to another the last 8 weeks. A hardner such as winstrol (much better than masteron IMO) or both which is common and a non aromatizing androgen such as tren or halo...sometimes both but again not going to make much difference if you are using tren...halo isnt going to do much.

But here's the kicker the cycle isnt going to make or break your placing...what will however is how much balanced muscle you started with on the diet, your diet itself, cardio and training, and most importantly the last 7 days where most guys totally screw up.

The first thing guys need to realize is gear doesn't make the bodybuilder and just loading up aint going to do shit unless you are doing everything else correctly.
Yes many guys take a tonne of shit does that make it better...not a chance. I see hundreds of guys in shows that cant even qualify for provincial never mind nationals and they are taking ridiculous amounts of gear...plain stupidity.

P

[Want2lift]

Care to share your thoughts on which AI's should be used Prae? I am an aromasin fan but most seem to like a-dex for Prep. Or are you talking letro and nolvadex?

[Praetorian]

Nolvadex is a SERM and works much differently than an AI...two completely different beasts. Aromasin has always been my first choice and works very well approx 97.9% inhibition at 25mg once daily. Femara is very close a bit higher 98.9% inhibition at a dose of 2.5mg once daily and anastrazole 96.7% at 1mg once per day. You can see that there is very little difference but an important factor is lipid profile disruption. Anastrozole has show to affect lipid profile ie HDL levels very negatively so that would be my last choice.
Also you need to understand that complete estrogen suppression is not the goal here as that can cause other negative sides...ie joint issues, libido issues etc.
P

[InkedSailor]

thanks for the posts i like to hear everybodys point of view... so if i can pick your brain what do you mean guys lose it there last 7 days? pull water to early? or just dont deplete enough or what are your thoughts.

[steve_d]

thanks for the posts i like to hear everybodys point of view... so if i can pick your brain what do you mean guys lose it there last 7 days? pull water to early? or just dont deplete enough or what are your thoughts.

Quite the opposite - most people deplete too much. Then they load too much. The sport is about extremes, so generally people always do everything to the max. Just like you guys were talking about earlier running max gear, people tend to reduce sodium to zero, carbs to zero, load on diuretics, etc.

So you'll see someone go zero carbs all week, then try to load it all in eating 20,000 calories the day before the show, doing so on no water or salt + massive diuretics and expect to 'fill out'.

There are so many wrong ways to do it, some more devastating than others. There are many right ways to do it. the problem is everyone tries magic to get to 100% and instead get to -100%. So many approaches can get you to 95%+ without doing anything drastic, with no risk of ruining anything. I favor that approach.

[Want2lift]

So all that needs to be used to control estro is aromasin? Thats what I use daily during cycles. Always liked it more than a dex. No nolva or any serms at all?

[Praetorian]

As Steve says the last week is about fine tuning not drastic changes. If you are making drastic changes in order to look good then that is a tell tale sign you made big mistakes. An AI will control estrogen yes as long you use it correctly and in the right amounts. An AI prevents the conversion of testosterone to estrogen making a SERM redundant and unnecessary. What guys need to realize as well is you cannot just throw in an AI the last few weeks before a contest as it will not be effective against the already present estrogen.

P