TeamT3
02-04-2007, 01:45 PM
Hey guys I feel like looking back. I am a trainer now and certainly get a laugh out of my old training logs. Still alot can be gained by seeing where you came from. Some of our old ideas actually still work. High protein low carb for example. But alot were silly, tapering for example. I tapered. I wasted my time. I did no PCT. I lost muscle.
But here are some thoughts I had while looking at my old books:
I started gear after 5 years of training clean. I worked out an an old Gold's Gym (pre Planet Fitness) that was a dive. A place like that would never be approved for a franchise now. But it was great. Cold as hell in winter, hot as hell in summer and we had a ton of great guys there. Everyone shared gear. Dbol was handed out like candy.
It cost literally pennies a tab and back then we did alot less most of the time.
My first few cycles were dbol only, which I know is laughed at now. I learned about gear at first from my dad who used to compete in powerlifting. He ran almost all dbol cycles. This was the 60's mind you and 10-20mg everyday of dbol for 6 months was a standard cycle. I think alot of the negative vibes around dbol only come from stories like my Dad's.
Easy come, easy go, he would tell me. Back then (even when I started) there was no PCT. You would go on, sometimes taper, and go off.
What you lost was water, lots of it and fast. After that it took 3-6 weeks to get back to normal (longer if you ran the dbol for longer) so in that time estrogen would rise and muscle would melt off. But today dbol only can be done succesfully. Not the best, but not as bad as people think.
I agree with AlmostPro on bolex regarding oral only cycles. With some thought they will work fine. If you run them like my old man did though - expect to lose what you gained.
Once I got serious I added in deca. Back then we only touched test if deca dick was an issue. Although sometimes we took it for aggresive workouts. A few of us took a shot of water 5 hours before training and always got an aggressive workout. But for most of the year it was deca/dbol.
Our doses were run as follows:
deca weeks 1-5 200mg
deca weeks 6-10 400mg
deca weeks 10-15 800mg
deca weeks 15-20 400mg
deca weeks 20 - (?) 200mg, often run for many weeks or months depending when your show was.
Dbol was run as follows:
dbol weeks 1-10 10mg ED
dbol weeks 10-15 25mg ED
dbol Weeks 15-20 15mg ED
We split the dbol up throughout the day and ran the deca at one shot a week on mondays. If I ran test I would take 200mg of cyp a week.
Pre-contest we took more dbol up to 50mg, but right before the show would stop it to avoid bloat.
Diet was high protein and high fat, very low carb. We got laughed at for awhile but its nice to see our idea of dieting was right. The 80's carb craze was a sad time for bodybuilding.
I followed Larry Scotts diet to a tee, other then blair's protein. I used a home made shake at the time.
Training was done 6 days a week. usually hitting each body part twice a week, 3 times before a show or summer to cut up and lean up.
In the offseason we usually did 2 days on one off. But a few stayed high volume. I still believe there is some magic to high volume if managed right. Cycling routines and periodization were not done much back then. We had alot to learn.
Cardio? Well we got laid alot, lol. But that was it. Gyms had no cardio equipment at all - maybe a beat up old weider bike to warm up. Some boxers jumped rope - we thought they were nuts.
To add detail we did isometric holds and static contractions. We didnt call them that mind you at the time.
When dieting it was low carb, and by low I mean one salad a day. Arnold did a seminar nearby once and that is what he told us all to do. It worked, but wasnt fun.
Lots of steaks. LOTS. We ate steak morning noon and night. Postworkout meals were chicken and rice usually. Morning was a protein shake, before bed was a protein shake and in between was steak, tunaa (chicken post workout) and water, lots of water. Oh and that one salad.
Offseason we drank 1 gallon of whole milk a day.
It worked.
Maybe not the best method but at the time I went from 160lbs to 210lbs in just a few years (clean, no gear - some brewers yeast -yuck!).
Once I started gear I went from 210lbs to 240lbs. Once I bulked up to 270, but that was not for me. I'm big boned but that was alot of weight(fat) to gain and getting it off was a bitch. Why did it take so long for ECA to come out?
The biggest cycle I ran was: 1 gram of deca on the advice of Mike Menzter and 30mg of dbol everyday. I ran this for 6 weeks and felt like garbage. Very lethargic. But I did gain alot of size.
We all talked about anavar and anadrol: The Gold stack (Joe Gold raved about them in Muscle Builder as the ultimate stack) But var was a California drug (LOL). Maybe one day we'll take a road trip we would say, that day never came. In time var was found up North and we ate it up like candy.
They were good times. No hammer machines, no cable crossover, A rusted T-bar row and alot of flat benches. Dumbells went from 10-200lbs. No pink areobic weights, no women(yeah that wasnt so good), no supplements. It was different, it was fun.
In alot of ways it was better then today.
In alot of ways today kicks yesterdays ass.
I posted the following today, but thought I would add it in here as well:
Dont pyramid or Taper Steroids.
Stay with the same dose and dont taper either.
Most drugs will self taper anyways so no need to waste your steroids on low dosages at the end. You system will not recover while you have exogenous hormones active so all a taper does is make the end of your cycle less productive.
Tapering was around when we didnt use PCT.
I did it all the time in the 70's and 80's because we had nothing else. It was innefective at best.
Look at Tom Platz for example. He tapered and went from 220lbs lean and hard to 165lbs. I've seen it happen to many guys. Platz was the most noticeable.
Here is what I was told to do when I was young and disco was on the radio:
Ramp up and then ramp down as follows;
Using Test with an ester:
Week one 200mg
Week 2: 300mg
Week 3 300mg
Week 4: 400mg
Week 5: 400mg
Week6: 300mg
Week 7: 200mg
Week 8 150mg
Wekk9: 100mg
Week 10 50-100mg
At this point we would lower dose further if need be. Then go off totally. Many would run deca or primo while off at 100mg/week. The logic was that these drugs wont shut you down - of course we know this is now false but the idea then was mild anabolics would keep the muscle without affecting HTPA.
Arnold was said/rumored to run deca while 'off' gear.
At around week 6 I would start to add in var or primo, switching from an androgen to an anabolic in hopes to keep mass while recovering. Of course I wasnt recovering as I was still on gear and still surpressed but the 'guru's at the time were working with limited info and this was the best they could come up with.
So as I lowered test I would keep an anaoblic in my system. Once I was off test I would taper off the primo as well and then be done. At this point I had lost alot of size and felt like garbage as I hadnt prooperly recovered at all.
But it was all we knew at the time. We didnt run GH off cycle or use nolva,clomid. We hoped teh high anaboic would keep our gains and maybe it did to a point, but we were still shut down --- just in denial.
Why people still suggest a taper is beyond me as I have 20 years of reasons why it wont work.
Some guys now taper and add in clomid. But they miss the point that clomid will not work in the presence of testosterone so there is no reason to run it. HCG is an option but this too will only artifically help out and still keep you in a negative response loop and very shut down.
Here is what works best for most:
Use same dose of test through whole cycle. DO NOT TAPER!
At the end of cycle if you are on enanthate or cyp you may add in a fast acting steroid to keep levels even while the drug SELF TAPERS out of your system. I often have men use test suspension or dbol to use up until PCT starts to keep them gaining while the bulk of their cycle gets out of their system.
This is not mandatory but it does help.
Once the cyp or enanthate is cleared the system we stop the fast acting gear, wait one day and begin aggressive PCT. Often we use non-androgen anabolics once we start PCT.
The above is simple and it works. No need to over complicate PCT. IT makes sense, is easy and doesnt waste gear.
I have no axe to grind with the Tapering Squad, I know you guys are out there.
But this is what I have seen and done since the 1970's. Its a different feeling to have lived through this stuff then to have just seen what works on paper or what others may have told you.
-PoppaFlex(TeamT3)
__________________
But here are some thoughts I had while looking at my old books:
I started gear after 5 years of training clean. I worked out an an old Gold's Gym (pre Planet Fitness) that was a dive. A place like that would never be approved for a franchise now. But it was great. Cold as hell in winter, hot as hell in summer and we had a ton of great guys there. Everyone shared gear. Dbol was handed out like candy.
It cost literally pennies a tab and back then we did alot less most of the time.
My first few cycles were dbol only, which I know is laughed at now. I learned about gear at first from my dad who used to compete in powerlifting. He ran almost all dbol cycles. This was the 60's mind you and 10-20mg everyday of dbol for 6 months was a standard cycle. I think alot of the negative vibes around dbol only come from stories like my Dad's.
Easy come, easy go, he would tell me. Back then (even when I started) there was no PCT. You would go on, sometimes taper, and go off.
What you lost was water, lots of it and fast. After that it took 3-6 weeks to get back to normal (longer if you ran the dbol for longer) so in that time estrogen would rise and muscle would melt off. But today dbol only can be done succesfully. Not the best, but not as bad as people think.
I agree with AlmostPro on bolex regarding oral only cycles. With some thought they will work fine. If you run them like my old man did though - expect to lose what you gained.
Once I got serious I added in deca. Back then we only touched test if deca dick was an issue. Although sometimes we took it for aggresive workouts. A few of us took a shot of water 5 hours before training and always got an aggressive workout. But for most of the year it was deca/dbol.
Our doses were run as follows:
deca weeks 1-5 200mg
deca weeks 6-10 400mg
deca weeks 10-15 800mg
deca weeks 15-20 400mg
deca weeks 20 - (?) 200mg, often run for many weeks or months depending when your show was.
Dbol was run as follows:
dbol weeks 1-10 10mg ED
dbol weeks 10-15 25mg ED
dbol Weeks 15-20 15mg ED
We split the dbol up throughout the day and ran the deca at one shot a week on mondays. If I ran test I would take 200mg of cyp a week.
Pre-contest we took more dbol up to 50mg, but right before the show would stop it to avoid bloat.
Diet was high protein and high fat, very low carb. We got laughed at for awhile but its nice to see our idea of dieting was right. The 80's carb craze was a sad time for bodybuilding.
I followed Larry Scotts diet to a tee, other then blair's protein. I used a home made shake at the time.
Training was done 6 days a week. usually hitting each body part twice a week, 3 times before a show or summer to cut up and lean up.
In the offseason we usually did 2 days on one off. But a few stayed high volume. I still believe there is some magic to high volume if managed right. Cycling routines and periodization were not done much back then. We had alot to learn.
Cardio? Well we got laid alot, lol. But that was it. Gyms had no cardio equipment at all - maybe a beat up old weider bike to warm up. Some boxers jumped rope - we thought they were nuts.
To add detail we did isometric holds and static contractions. We didnt call them that mind you at the time.
When dieting it was low carb, and by low I mean one salad a day. Arnold did a seminar nearby once and that is what he told us all to do. It worked, but wasnt fun.
Lots of steaks. LOTS. We ate steak morning noon and night. Postworkout meals were chicken and rice usually. Morning was a protein shake, before bed was a protein shake and in between was steak, tunaa (chicken post workout) and water, lots of water. Oh and that one salad.
Offseason we drank 1 gallon of whole milk a day.
It worked.
Maybe not the best method but at the time I went from 160lbs to 210lbs in just a few years (clean, no gear - some brewers yeast -yuck!).
Once I started gear I went from 210lbs to 240lbs. Once I bulked up to 270, but that was not for me. I'm big boned but that was alot of weight(fat) to gain and getting it off was a bitch. Why did it take so long for ECA to come out?
The biggest cycle I ran was: 1 gram of deca on the advice of Mike Menzter and 30mg of dbol everyday. I ran this for 6 weeks and felt like garbage. Very lethargic. But I did gain alot of size.
We all talked about anavar and anadrol: The Gold stack (Joe Gold raved about them in Muscle Builder as the ultimate stack) But var was a California drug (LOL). Maybe one day we'll take a road trip we would say, that day never came. In time var was found up North and we ate it up like candy.
They were good times. No hammer machines, no cable crossover, A rusted T-bar row and alot of flat benches. Dumbells went from 10-200lbs. No pink areobic weights, no women(yeah that wasnt so good), no supplements. It was different, it was fun.
In alot of ways it was better then today.
In alot of ways today kicks yesterdays ass.
I posted the following today, but thought I would add it in here as well:
Dont pyramid or Taper Steroids.
Stay with the same dose and dont taper either.
Most drugs will self taper anyways so no need to waste your steroids on low dosages at the end. You system will not recover while you have exogenous hormones active so all a taper does is make the end of your cycle less productive.
Tapering was around when we didnt use PCT.
I did it all the time in the 70's and 80's because we had nothing else. It was innefective at best.
Look at Tom Platz for example. He tapered and went from 220lbs lean and hard to 165lbs. I've seen it happen to many guys. Platz was the most noticeable.
Here is what I was told to do when I was young and disco was on the radio:
Ramp up and then ramp down as follows;
Using Test with an ester:
Week one 200mg
Week 2: 300mg
Week 3 300mg
Week 4: 400mg
Week 5: 400mg
Week6: 300mg
Week 7: 200mg
Week 8 150mg
Wekk9: 100mg
Week 10 50-100mg
At this point we would lower dose further if need be. Then go off totally. Many would run deca or primo while off at 100mg/week. The logic was that these drugs wont shut you down - of course we know this is now false but the idea then was mild anabolics would keep the muscle without affecting HTPA.
Arnold was said/rumored to run deca while 'off' gear.
At around week 6 I would start to add in var or primo, switching from an androgen to an anabolic in hopes to keep mass while recovering. Of course I wasnt recovering as I was still on gear and still surpressed but the 'guru's at the time were working with limited info and this was the best they could come up with.
So as I lowered test I would keep an anaoblic in my system. Once I was off test I would taper off the primo as well and then be done. At this point I had lost alot of size and felt like garbage as I hadnt prooperly recovered at all.
But it was all we knew at the time. We didnt run GH off cycle or use nolva,clomid. We hoped teh high anaboic would keep our gains and maybe it did to a point, but we were still shut down --- just in denial.
Why people still suggest a taper is beyond me as I have 20 years of reasons why it wont work.
Some guys now taper and add in clomid. But they miss the point that clomid will not work in the presence of testosterone so there is no reason to run it. HCG is an option but this too will only artifically help out and still keep you in a negative response loop and very shut down.
Here is what works best for most:
Use same dose of test through whole cycle. DO NOT TAPER!
At the end of cycle if you are on enanthate or cyp you may add in a fast acting steroid to keep levels even while the drug SELF TAPERS out of your system. I often have men use test suspension or dbol to use up until PCT starts to keep them gaining while the bulk of their cycle gets out of their system.
This is not mandatory but it does help.
Once the cyp or enanthate is cleared the system we stop the fast acting gear, wait one day and begin aggressive PCT. Often we use non-androgen anabolics once we start PCT.
The above is simple and it works. No need to over complicate PCT. IT makes sense, is easy and doesnt waste gear.
I have no axe to grind with the Tapering Squad, I know you guys are out there.
But this is what I have seen and done since the 1970's. Its a different feeling to have lived through this stuff then to have just seen what works on paper or what others may have told you.
-PoppaFlex(TeamT3)
__________________