My actual routine/ moderate week!

[TT Eric]

Hi Ted! As you know I'm using your method since quite a while and it goes very well! I've tried something new since 2-3 months still based on your method and it works extremely well IMO, on me and my training partner, so I decided to share it with you and anyone reading.

Instead of doing the usual one body part per day and hit it hard with usually 3 exercises, which for me = get sore for infinity and beyond (some muscles like triceps or chest are real sore for 4 days, it even impair each other's workout). I decided to work them more often but less each time.

So I do upper and lower body days. 3 days a week = upper and 2 days a week = lower body (if back allows).

Upper body workout are 1 exercise per muscle and done in supersets with their antagonist.

Here it goes for the upper body:

Day 1 (Wednesday)
A1 Bench press
A2 Reverse grip pulldowns or chin-ups
B1 Weighted Dips
B2 Curl BB
Side raise DB


Day 3 (Friday)
A1 Decline Bench press
A2 Neutral-grip pulldowns
B1 Close-grip Bench press
B2 Incline DB curl
(give a break to the shoulders here)


Day 5 (Sunday
A1 Incline DB bench press
A2 One arm rowing DB
B1 Lying BB extension
B2 Hammer curls
Face pulls
Shrugs down the rack

(Working the legs on Monday and Thursday)

4 sets of everything, do the warm-up as you taught me, then start heavy for low reps, remove 10% for the 3 others sets. I do cheats when strict is not doable anymore and drop set at the last set for those I can't cheat (like for chest exercises). I do take a break between each set, not superset back to back, like after benching heavy (heavy for me anyway) I take the necessary time I need to be able to hit the chin-ups or pulldowns correctly, as hard as I can and so on.

What I find positive is that instead of hitting each muscle once, I hit them 3 times a week, intense soreness is gone and basically I'm stronger, I can use more weights on basically each exercises for 2 reasons:
1-Every muscle are fresh when I hit them, usually when doing one body part per day, at the second and third exercise the muscle is tired and cannot handle as much weight as when fresh obviously.
2-And since they are supersetted with their antagonist, there is this effect of recharging the strength of the opposite muscle when doing the other, so I came back stronger from the antagonist. I noticed right away for example that I was able to make more reps at my 2nd, 3rd and 4th set of bench press then if I do bench press alone.

As you can see, it also allows me to use less isolation and more compounds. Plus the pump is awesome, working opposite muscle kinda make for it.

At first I thought that the only drawback I could potentially see is it could be hard on joints, but since it's the same volume of exercises and sets I would do if I was to do them one part per day, it seems not so far. Plus I think it's easier because I do not beat the crap out of them in a singular training.

So far I'm very satisfied, even impressed by the results and how it feel! (BTW if you see any flaws in this, feel free to let me know!)

The other thread where we are talking about deload and using -30-35% less weight...you said you only apply the moderate rule to primary compound exercises/the first exercise in your routine and you perform the balance of the exercises as usual, so it brought me to wonder what I should do for my moderate week since basically each exercise are my first exercise for each muscle... ??

So far I was doing -20% on everything and was doing 5-6 reps and lowering the weight a bit as I went down on subsequent sets.

TBH I think I could not go 100% like I do without the moderate week, I think I could maybe go 100% on arms and shoulders every week since they are not 'big muscles', but surely not on chest and back exercises.

How would you do the moderate week on that ?

Thanks!

Eric

[Primal]

Hey Eric, I know you directed this to Prae but... thanks for posting this! This looks like really interesting split, I do have a few questions on it though if you don't mind. So, if this is your split for you moderate week, is your heavy week the same as this one? Just with lower reps? No offense or anything, but I can't see you doing close grip bench press on a heavy day, it would probably screw up the wrists right?. If your heavy week is different, it would be awesome if you could perhaps post that one up too? Also, I noticed that on Wednesdays, you only do around 20 sets for all the muscles that you are working. I know you hit them again on Friday and Sunday but wouldn't it not be that much volume for the muscle? I mean, for example, for chest, in total in a whole week, you only do 12 sets. Yes, I know that they are worked as secondary's for the dips and such but I always thought that if the goal was hypertrophy that you wanted 20-27ish? That's what I've heard from a lot of people (I know I'm no expert, please correct me if I am wrong). You say start off with heavy reps which I do too, but do you ever do one rep maxes on this week? Or do you do them on the heavy week? I mean.. I suppose if this split works for you, that's all that really matters but it just looks like really low volume on each individual muscle group and this is a moderate week... Usually the heavier week you do less sets right, because you work the muscle harder for lower reps? Like I said, it looks great and it's awesome that it works for you!

Sorry if I screwed up anything that you already said above e.t.c. I know I've been doing that a lot in my posts lately (3-4 hours of sleep with midterms :() but thanks again for posting!

-Primal

[TT Eric]

Hey Eric, I know you directed this to Prae but... thanks for posting this! This looks like really interesting split, I do have a few questions on it though if you don't mind. So, if this is your split for you moderate week, is your heavy week the same as this one? YES HARD WEEK AND MODERATE ARE THE SAME WORKOUT!

Just with lower reps? YES I REDUCE THE WEIGHT AND DO 5-6 REPS ON EACH SETS

No offense or anything, but I can't see you doing close grip bench press on a heavy day, it would probably screw up the wrists right? NO, IF YOU DO CLOSE-GRIPS BENCH PRESS SHOULDER WIDE, IT'S NOT HARD ON WRISTS AT ALL. ON THIS EXERCISE I USUALLY DO 4-5 REPS ON THE 1ST SET AND REMOVE 10% FOR THE OTHERS SET, SO I END-UP DOING USUALLY 5,7,9,12 REPS.

If your heavy week is different, it would be awesome if you could perhaps post that one up too? Also, I noticed that on Wednesdays, you only do around 20 sets for all the muscles that you are working. I know you hit them again on Friday and Sunday but wouldn't it not be that much volume for the muscle? IF YOU CHECK DORIAN YATES'S TRAINING YOU'LL SEE HOW FEW WORKING SETS HE DOES. PERSONALLY I USED HIGH-INTENSITY METHOD WITH SUCCESS IN THE PAST: WHOLE BODY WORKOUT: 1 OR 2 WORKING SET PER MUSCLE, 3 TIMES A WEEK AND HAD GREAT RESULT, THE GOAL IS TO RECRUIT THE MAXIMUM OF FIBERS IN ONE SET, SO YOU GO BEYOND FAILURE TO ACHIEVE THAT.

I mean, for example, for chest, in total in a whole week, you only do 12 sets. Yes, I know that they are worked as secondary's for the dips and such but I always thought that if the goal was hypertrophy that you wanted 20-27ish?
That's what I've heard from a lot of people (I know I'm no expert, please correct me if I am wrong). TBH BEFORE I SWITCHED TO 12, I WAS ONLY DOING 9 SETS (5+4) ONCE A WEEK AND COULD NOT DO A 3RD EXERCISE ON CHEST (WAS DOING 12 ON OTHERS MUSCLE THOUGH) BECAUSE IT WAS TOO MUCH, I USE TO BE SORE IN THE CHEST FOR AT LEAST 4 DAYS, SO IF I WAS DOING CHEST ON MONDAY, IT WAS STILL SORE WHEN I WAS DOING TRICEPS ON THURSDAY (FELT IT ON CLOSE-GRIP BENCH PRESS) AND SAME FOR THE TRICEPS: THEY WERE SORE ON MONDAY WHEN I WAS DOING CHEST (THEY IMPAIRED EACH OTHER). SO NOW DOING 12 INSTEAD OF 9 IS KINDA AN IMPROVEMENT. -BACK IN THE TIME I USE TO DO HIGH VOLUME TRAINING (20 SETS) BUT SINCE I USE NOW A LOT OF MENTAL PREPARATION/FOCUS TO GO A LOT DEEPER AND SQUEEZE ANYTHING OUT OF EVERY SETS, YOU BASICALLY NEED LESS SETS TO REACH DESIRABLE FIBERS RECRUITMENT. ASK MY TRAINING PARTNER, SOMETIME HE BLACKOUT AND I NEED TO CATCH THE BAR.

You say start off with heavy reps which I do too, but do you ever do one rep maxes on this week? VERY VERY RARE, I RARELY GO UNDER 2-3 REPS AND IT WOULD BE ONLY ON HARD WEEK OF COURSE.

Or do you do them on the heavy week? I mean.. I suppose if this split works for you, that's all that really matters but it just looks like really low volume on each individual muscle group and this is a moderate week... Usually the heavier week you do less sets right, because you work the muscle harder for lower reps? Like I said, it looks great and it's awesome that it works for you! SAME VOLUME HARD AND MODERATE WEEK. PLENTY ENOUGH FOR ME, LET SAY 'QUALITY' INTENSE WORKINGS SETS BEATS 'VOLUME' HANDS DOWN IMO. LATELY ONE OF MY FRIENDS CAME UP TO TRAIN WITH ME, HE'S A GUY THAT TRAINED FOR VERY LONG (MORE THEN 10 YEARS), HE WAS PLAYING FOOTBALL AND THEIR TRAINING ARE NOT EASY AS YOU KNOW, PRETTY STRONG GUY USED TO VOLUME, HE ADMITTED HE NEVER TRAINED SO HARD IN HIS LIFE, HE WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS, HE WAS SEEING STARS AND HONESTLY I WENT EASIER THEN USUAL.

Sorry if I screwed up anything that you already said above e.t.c. I know I've been doing that a lot in my posts lately (3-4 hours of sleep with midterms :() but thanks again for posting! YOU NEED YOUR SLEEP TO PRODUCE HORMONE BUILDING MUSCLE AND TO KEEP CORTISOL AT BAY, TAKE CARE MAN.

-Primal

See above in caps!

Eric

[Primal]

Haha! Thanks for answering Eric! I probably should have put the questions in numerical order... I'll remember that for next time.

1. Oh, I see, so you like the whole Dorian style training. That's interesting! So I'm assuming then on your heavy week then, you past failure like you said above right? Do you find that this taxes your NS a lot? I mean, even thought the sets for each muscle are small, over a period of 3 days would get pretty intense? Am I right? Especially going past failure.

2. Hmm, that is also interesting about your soreness. I was wondering if you could touch on when you first started training, did you get as sore as you would be now? I know it differs from people to people but I know that when I train, even when I go hardcore, the MAX I feel sore for is 2 days. Maybe when I get older I will start to feel it days like you? Who knows, just an interesting point I wanted to ask about.

3. You say that with "Mental preparation/focus" you are able to go a lot deeper with the contractions and feel it (Awesome MMC! :)) I was just wondering how fast you concentric and eccentric motions of your movements were? I was going to make a post about it but I might as well just ask it now I guess. To be honest, I think I go too fast, so I'd like to hear how fast you go!

4. I have never heard volume being compared to 'quality' reps before, that is a very interesting way to put it! If I may ask, with the smaller amount of sets, how long are you in the gym for roughly?

5. LOL as I type this, my last exam just got cancelled because of the weather! Looks like I can finally get back to regular sleep patterns and hit the gym again!

Thanks! I know I'm butting in on this one :P

-Primal

[TT Eric]

1. Yes and yes.

2. Pretty much the same as when I was a newbie, some muscle like shoulders are never sore, whatever I do, some are 'normal' like legs and back, they are very sore if I make a change, if they are used to the training, they are sore for 2-3 days. But some like chest, triceps, traps are getting sore like if I never hit the gym before or like if I was doing a completely different routine each time. Skull crusher are the worst, the only 4 sets I do on Sunday can get me sore enough that it hurts when I hit the Bench press and dips on the Wednesday, great thing it's moderate week.

3. Mental preparation does a lot to help you go beyond normal, if I do not prepare I'll be weaker, I treat every hard week almost like a competition, if I did 5 reps on a set with x weights as a PR, the next time I see 6 in my head, if you think at your last score of 5, great chance you'll stop there, if you see 6, good chance you'll make it, I use many other way too. As for eccentric/concentric, I usually explode on concentric (x) and control the eccentric portion (1-3sec). On moderate week I tend to do the eccentric portion slower (3-4 sec).

4. Because of the intensity of the workouts, they are about 2hours. On moderate week, maybe 1h-1h15.

Eric

[Primal]

1. Yes and yes.

2. Pretty much the same as when I was a newbie, some muscle like shoulders are never sore, whatever I do, some are 'normal' like legs and back, they are very sore if I make a change, if they are used to the training, they are sore for 2-3 days. But some like chest, triceps, traps are getting sore like if I never hit the gym before or like if I was doing a completely different routine each time. Skull crusher are the worst, the only 4 sets I do on Sunday can get me sore enough that it hurts when I hit the Bench press and dips on the Wednesday, great thing it's moderate week.

3. Mental preparation does a lot to help you go beyond normal, if I do not prepare I'll be weaker, I treat every hard week almost like a competition, if I did 5 reps on a set with x weights as a PR, the next time I see 6 in my head, if you think at your last score of 5, great chance you'll stop there, if you see 6, good chance you'll make it, I use many other way too. As for eccentric/concentric, I usually explode on concentric (x) and control the eccentric portion (1-3sec). On moderate week I tend to do the eccentric portion slower (3-4 sec).

4. Because of the intensity of the workouts, they are about 2hours. On moderate week, maybe 1h-1h15.

Eric

Wow your sessions are long! Thanks for answering, I appreciate it!

-Primal

[Praetorian]

Eric,

If it works for you that's fine. I prefer to train the entire muscle in one session and not split it up. I do however include some extra exercises for biceps on back days, triceps on chest days, etc as I feel there recovery is much better than say legs etc. When I was training to develop maximum strength my heavy day was 3-5 reps to failure on first set and moderate was 75% roughly for 3-4 sets of 5. With that type of training I was able to it a 2000lb raw total. I dont think that would be possible with your method...then again I dont think that is your goal. Also you have to remember you may not be incorporating enough recovery mechanisms to really be fully ready for the heavy week...ie epsom salt baths, intra workout recovery drinks, deep tissue massage, ART, etc With many of these methods I can add extra exercises on off days as mentioned above.



P

[TT Eric]

Thanks Ted, I'll continue this split for the moment cause the results are really awesome for me and my training partner, many lifts that were plateaued for a long time are finally progressing week after week.

I would like to know if you have a suggestion how to do the moderate week with that kind of training, what do you think would be best ?

Thanks again.

Eric