Lateral Raises!

[Primal]

Hi all, I've recently been trying out a few new ways to do lateral raises. My shoulders are a huge lagging point on my body and I've been trying really hard to bring them up but without much success... A lot of different people say that using really heavy dumbbells work really well. Then you have guys like Gabe Moen who say that small weights really work well and really focus on the contraction. You also have the guys who say that you should use heavy weights unilaterally and hold onto a wall. Some other people like to sit down and use light weights, others like to bring the dumbbells to the front, some keep it at their sides e.t.c... Point is, I'm really confused as to the safest and most efficient way to hit my deltoids good. As I said before, I've tried a bunch of these methods out and honestly, the best that works for me (right now at least) is what Gabe Moen does; standing, low weight and really focusing on the contraction. How do you guys do your lateral raises? Is there a better way than what I am currently doing now? Thanks!

-Primal

(Link to how Gabe Moen does his lateral raises) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_BOSMBzATo&feature=c4-overview&list=UUgH2mZ5auwlAX5YwjDx4ZiQ

[Hosehead]

First things first : lateral raises won't add a whole lot of mass to your shoulders. Big shoulders come from seated and standing military presses, heavy dumbell presses and flat and incline barbell presses. I guarantee you that there isn't a pro alive that didn't build massive shoulders without these moves. The lateral raise is kinda like the icing on the cake, so to speak. They can be very effective for adding additional size and capping things off. IMO the form shown in the video is pretty much perfect. You don't need much weight to make this exercise effective. The guy doing the video didn't build that much mass without doing the aforementioned exercises as his staples.

[Primal]

Hey Hosehead, sorry about any misunderstandings. I do make sure to do the big compound movements first, ie. military pres, overhead dumbbell press e.t.c and those movements are coming along just fine. What I am trying to refer to is the 'cap' of the deltoid. so you think the way Gabe Moen does it is a good form? Do you agree with the rep ranges being 10-15? I usually only do this rep range for muscle groups like the calves and such that are used all the time during the day... But what do I know?

Thanks a lot!

[Delt King]

Gabe does the lateral raise well but to completely isolate the medial delt (cap) rotate the db down further so that your thumb is pointing down and pinky finger is higher. This will help eliminate front delt involvement.
Always make sure elbows are higher than the db.
I've built my shoulders without presses at all and its one of my best bodyparts now.
Once you have the form down you can increase the weight. I use 85lbs on my heaviest drop sets

[cog]

85 lbs is impressive.

[TT Eric]

Sh!t Jerry 85lbs!!!

Eric

[Praetorian]

Pefecting form on the lateral raise should be your first goal. As you add weight the inevitable will happen which is form breaks down. So you need to add weight slowly and concentrate on not breaking form. Once you do this you will be able to move up in weight...i have gone up to 70's and thats after 4-5 sets of heavy shoulder pressing 315lbs to the front first. To build the entire shoulder girdle I prefer a variety of exercises including barbell pressing to the front, wide grip upright rows, and dumbbell laterals. Like DK says thumb down pinkie up....just pretend you have a beer in each hand and you are pouring the beer out onto the floow as you raise the dumbbell to the side.

P

[Primal]

Gabe does the lateral raise well but to completely isolate the medial delt (cap) rotate the db down further so that your thumb is pointing down and pinky finger is higher. This will help eliminate front delt involvement.
Always make sure elbows are higher than the db.
I've built my shoulders without presses at all and its one of my best bodyparts now.
Once you have the form down you can increase the weight. I use 85lbs on my heaviest drop sets

JAYSUS! 85 lbs?! That is freaking crazy weight!! I'm definitely going to try your way. So just to get the angle right about how much of an angle should my pinky and thumb be at? 20 degrees-ish?

[Primal]

Pefecting form on the lateral raise should be your first goal. As you add weight the inevitable will happen which is form breaks down. So you need to add weight slowly and concentrate on not breaking form. Once you do this you will be able to move up in weight...i have gone up to 70's and thats after 4-5 sets of heavy shoulder pressing 315lbs to the front first. To build the entire shoulder girdle I prefer a variety of exercises including barbell pressing to the front, wide grip upright rows, and dumbbell laterals. Like DK says thumb down pinkie up....just pretend you have a beer in each hand and you are pouring the beer out onto the floow as you raise the dumbbell to the side.

P

Hey Prae, so yes, I will be starting with the lower weight to perfect the form for sure! My question other question is how far should my forearms be out from my elbow? I don't think having them completely locked would be a good idea, especially when I start moving up in weight... Also as DK mentions to keep the elbows higher than the dumbbell. Where should I bring my elbows up to?

You and DK are beasts!
Thanks!

-Primal

[cog]

Those upright rows sound dangerous Prae. :)

[Praetorian]

The arm elbow shouldnt be locked.. a slight bend is ideal. The elbow slightly higher inline with the dumbbell works fine. Most guys doing laterals do them wrong and never isolate the lateral deltoid because thy start with too much weight. Start low and work on technique....build your press as well which will build strength in the shoulder girdle to allow heavier dumbbells to be used correctly.

Cog you are correct uprights can b dangerous if not done correctly. A wide grip was emphasized by Vinc Gironda back in the 70's. This is basically like doing dumbbell lateral with the dumbbells connected by a bar. You will need straps to perform these correctly but they build the delt very efficiently. Use a slightly wider than shoulder width grip.

P

[cog]

^^^^
I used to do high pulls to the sternum,I guess no body English and higher with this?

[Delt King]

Wide grip upright rows are fantastic but having trained thousands of people I find that shoulder flexibility is the limiting factor in proper form. I keep saying I'm going to make a delt training video when I have time.

[Primal]

The arm elbow shouldnt be locked.. a slight bend is ideal. The elbow slightly higher inline with the dumbbell works fine. Most guys doing laterals do them wrong and never isolate the lateral deltoid because thy start with too much weight. Start low and work on technique....build your press as well which will build strength in the shoulder girdle to allow heavier dumbbells to be used correctly.

Cog you are correct uprights can b dangerous if not done correctly. A wide grip was emphasized by Vinc Gironda back in the 70's. This is basically like doing dumbbell lateral with the dumbbells connected by a bar. You will need straps to perform these correctly but they build the delt very efficiently. Use a slightly wider than shoulder width grip.

P

Will definitely try out this exercise. However, when I looked it up on Google, everybody did the exercise with a really close grip. What does the wide grip do to better isolate (sorry my shoulder day is on Monday so I can't test it out for a bit)?

[Primal]

Wide grip upright rows are fantastic but having trained thousands of people I find that shoulder flexibility is the limiting factor in proper form. I keep saying I'm going to make a delt training video when I have time.

YES! If you could make a delt training video that would be so helpful!! Also can you try to get those 85 lbs lateral raises in it too if you can? I would be so stoked to see that!

[Praetorian]

Will definitely try out this exercise. However, when I looked it up on Google, everybody did the exercise with a really close grip. What does the wide grip do to better isolate (sorry my shoulder day is on Monday so I can't test it out for a bit)?

Do NOT use a close grip...this stresses the wrists as well as the shoulder and will do little for lateral delt development.

P

[Primal]

Ok got it! Thanks all! I really appreciate it! :)

-Primal