Kovacs Take on the Gut

[cog]

A thread he started regarding,eating,lifting,core work and the gut.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=140283683&page=1

[TT Eric]

Not that I have any experience with GH and distended gut, but he said that drugs play a small role vs the other factors, but AFAIK in the golden age of bbing they were not using the same gear as today and I don' t recall seeing distended gut back in this time, Oliva, Columbu, Bertil Fox, Arnold, Bannout, Drapper, Platz, Mentzer, etc... if the other factors are the biggest factors as he said, we would have seen it on a few of those guys, no ?

Eric

[cog]

I believe what he says about pushing out the belly while squatting.Would Gironda have advised this?This is the influence of powerlifters,look at the mid sections on those guys.It makes no sense to make your belly large and then further stress it internally,you can draw it in and flex it.Some will of course say it's about the poundages in the power bodybuilding style.Flex had a small waist iirc

[Praetorian]

The idea that squatting cause gut distension is nonsense....there are many elite PL's with small tight waists.

The guts you see occur the majority of time on the biggest heaviest guys...why....the amount of food necessary to get to be 300-350lbs off season. Add insulin to this mix and GH and voila.

P

[ubcpower]

The idea that squatting cause gut distension is nonsense....there are many elite PL's with small tight waists.

The guts you see occur the majority of time on the biggest heaviest guys...why....the amount of food necessary to get to be 300-350lbs off season. Add insulin to this mix and GH and voila.

P

Agreed. My brother is a chiropractor and he suggested the overeating and LOWER CROSS syndrome that a majority of bbuilders suffer from would be enough to give the turtle belly. The hgh/slin just magnify it. If you guys aren't familiar w lower cross he sent me some readings and its very evident

[cog]

The idea that squatting cause gut distension is nonsense....there are many elite PL's with small tight waists.

The guts you see occur the majority of time on the biggest heaviest guys...why....the amount of food necessary to get to be 300-350lbs off season. Add insulin to this mix and GH and voila.

P

l looked at one site where the guy claimed this and then mentioned a woman. I've never seen any science that claimed growth hormone can enlarge your internal organs.I seem to lose intra abdominal fat first... inflate your abdomen,add some anterior pelvic tilt and you have the right conditions for simple physics to expand your transverse abdominus during the squat.Think about how little this actually gets worked these days,crunches are not enough,most planks are not demanding enough.


I just looked at that Lower Cross syndrome.Seems to support my theory that you get stretched out from being in a disadvantaged state.

[ubcpower]

Yup, a long progression of tight hip flexors, psoas and hip imbalances. I've noticed myself my pelvis is shifting forward over last 5-10 yrs

[cog]

Combine the old Russian advice to arch the low back and you have the perfect conditions to have the gut protrude.

[Hosehead]

Can someone please explain to me then , Tom Platz and every other guy in the 70's 80's and early 90's who squatted a shitload of weight and didn't have an enormous gut ? I get the food intake theory , I must be missing something on Lower Cross Syndrome. It still doesn't account for the old time bodybuilders. I have been told through an aquaintance that King Kamali , owner of a huge gut himself , believes that it is the combination of GH AND slin , not GH alone , along with 10,000 calories a day that causes this. I blame Tim Belknap for the slin abuse. :rotflmao

[cog]

Can someone please explain to me then , Tom Platz and every other guy in the 70's 80's and early 90's who squatted a shitload of weight and didn't have an enormous gut ? I get the food intake theory , I must be missing something on Lower Cross Syndrome. It still doesn't account for the old time bodybuilders. I have been told through an aquaintance that King Kamali , owner of a huge gut himself , believes that it is the combination of GH AND slin , not GH alone , along with 10,000 calories a day that causes this. I blame Tim Belknap for the slin abuse. :rotflmao

Yes,Belknap can be credited for this innovation,he was a diabetic himself.Some people at the time felt this was an unfair advantage.Platz did not have a trim waist like Zane either.And his style was considered quite good,he had no problem getting deep.I remember the observations of I believe it was Kennedy of Platz prior to his first serious showing(82?),Kennedy thought Platz looked damned heavy all over and mentally wrote him off.Arnold made reference to Mentzer's gut taking up all the room on stage in the 80 Olympia was it?

[Praetorian]

Arnold was always razzing Mike just because it got under his skin. It has nothing to do with him having a distended gut. Again look at elite PL and compare them to pro BB and youll see where the guts are...nothing to do with squatting. Many BB need to reduce or stop GH use prior to a show in order to reduce the waist size. Its not internal organ growth its more of an inflammatory type of affect...its also very individualistic. You didnt see the huge guts until the late 90's when guys started hitting stage weights of 250+ and the use of insulin increased dramatically.

P

[TT Eric]

Thanks Ted.

Eric

[cog]

Pak stated in a Flex interview earlier this year that he had gotten his waistline under control,iirc,he claimed it never got bigger than 32.I doubt any pro would give up what is considered necessary.


As for insulin,are you claiming it retains intra abdominal fat?Blp stated that this year's Mr. O winner had blurred abs due to insulin

Haven't seen any elite powerlifters with wasp waists.Dave Tate looks like your average Pl. He admits he never did core work for years.Louie Simmons certainly doesn't have a small waist..

[TT Eric]

IIRC Gary Strydom was one of the first big guy (275lbs) at the end of 80s, early 90s and he had a small waist, he still train and he still has a decent small waist. Sometimes he talk about big guts and here one of his writings:

''QUALITY OVER BLOAT...TO USE INSULIN OR NOT...WHAT'S A GURU?

In my opinion insulin usage is ruining the classic lines of our sport. The physiques we seeing today are not classical. Insulin bloats you with water and expands the fat cell. There is no way you can get "OLD SCHOOL DRY" using insulin. Now there will be those that disagree but if you going to argue with me be better than me even if you a top "guru."... Make sure you got titles to prove you know what you doing?? Don't say you have a top pro under your instruction because that doesn't count man. "Gurus" don't make pro's. Pro's are already on top of the sport before these "guru's" came along. No "guru" MADE a pro and saying they the reason for a pro's success is absurd. Makes me angry because its like they fooling the public that their crazy cocktails and training made these guys!!??. It takes years to get positioned these Mr O athletes are in...In my opinion the lean aesthetical looking physique with smaller trim waist lines are more pleasing than these bloated oversized mutants filled with synthol. I never use insulin or synthol (Or diuretics) and its one of the reasons why I have been able to maintain my body and shape over all of these years. If you diabetic I can understand you have to use insulin for your condition but if you not diabetic you just plain crazy if you using insulin. Shame on the 'GURUS" prescribing it to so many young up and coming athletes. They are experimenting on you and will not be around to support you in the future when you have medical problems. Don't be 'SHEEP LIKE" do your research and build your body slowly, progressively and safely.''

And honestly, how many with a big guts would go forward and say 'Yeah I have a big gut, it's because I used to much insulin and GH' ? Wouldn't rather put the fault on something else ?

Eric

[cog]

It might be true Eric,but I am naturally leery about the bb merry go round.Great effects are the result of diet and training but bad ones are from drugs?I do value Strydoms ' opinion though.I notice Antoine Vallants waistline appears thicker,as does his face recently.

[Praetorian]

Insulin causes fluid retention so does gh over 4iu per day. Ed Coan, Franco Columbu, Chuck Vogelpohl in lither classes all do not have distended waists...eve Dave Tate who used to carry a lot of BF has leaned down under Jon Meadows and looks great around 7% BF. WHat Gary says is true 100%..if you believe Hany Rambod made Phil Heath what he is today you are a complete MORON!

P

[cog]

If insulin causes water retention why do diuretics not solve this?
If GH causes inflammation then maybe peptides that spur the pituitary to produce the complete chain are in fact better.

[Praetorian]

Peptides are useless compared to GH...they are a marketing scheme. Much of the GH you see now is just relabeled peptides because they are dirt cheap and margins are high and you cannot tell the difference physically. Guys do use diuretics to combat insulin water retention especially during a carb up before a contest. The problem being you can pull too much water or not enough its hit and miss and thats why you see many not hitting their peak...even though they are pros. The majority of women drop GH two weeks out from a show or at least they should because of the water retention it causes which is much more pronounced in women on much lower doses.

P

[cog]

Heath looked spectacular except for his abs at the O,Blp said this was insulin.How could only one area be smoothed out?

[Talo]

what about the lack of digestive enzymes ?

[Praetorian]

Heath looked spectacular except for his abs at the O,Blp said this was insulin.How could only one area be smoothed out?


If you understand the body and how it works with water...ie the water hierarchy then you would know that sub q water retention is systemic. You dont just retain water sub q in the abdominal region...you can get distension in the abdominal region but that is not the same thing as suq water retention. Some guys hold water in a variety of areas more then others...ie legs, glutes, lower back, abs etc....that is individualistic.
Higher GH dosages (over 4iu daily) will increase water retention, so will carb loading, insulin, cortisol etc.

P