Sifting Through the Shit. A review of today’s popular products

[5151]

Introduction:
The more I talk to people in the know in the supplement industry and the more I learn about nutrition and the human body the more I understand that there are some brilliant formulations on the market and some douche-bags riding whatever fad is most popular to get their hands in your pocket. I have started this mini-series to generate conversation. I don’t plan on holding any punches and hope you will afford me the same treatment when you smell bullshit is afoot. Please leave your brand loyalty and “some big guy at the gym told me it works” arguments at the door as I hope for these threads to be based around science. The offer of muscle in a bottle is one we all fall victim to at one point or another, however the intent of this thread is to separate what is worthy of ingestion, what is not and what is potentially harmful. Please note most of these will be inspired by others postings or ideas but will include my own research and further investigation. Credit will always be given where credit is due.

[5151]

Installment 1: Micellar Casein

This particular installment was inspired by someone that goes by the moniker “cakedonkey” on the “big” bodybuilding board. He cites an article found here: http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/blog.php/micellar-casein-what-the-heck-is-it-blog-185.html. The bias in the article is obvious but let’s look past that as truth is truth.

With the growing number of casein products and protein blends hitting the market offering promises of slow release and superior amino acid profiles it’s time to take a step back and point out the companies jumping on the hype train while offering inferior product. So what is casein? Casein constitutes approximately 80% of milk protein. Casein constitutes of four major fractions that account for over 90% of the whole casein fractions. The four major fractions in descending order of concentration in milk: alpha s1, beta, kappa and alpha s2(includes delta and gamma). Casein digests slowly because it forms a clot in the stomach to offer more efficient nutrition to the offspring of mammals. So where does the shit that needs to be sifted come into play? Pick up the tub of slow digesting protein or blend and look at the label. See an ingredient label listing only, “Micellar Alpha and Beta Caseins and Caseinates?” This is a company trying to offer the consumer an incomplete product. A quick review of what casein protein is allows us to realize that something is wrong. This a deceptive practice employed by some industry giants and surely one that does not deserve the reward of having their product purchased.

[5151]

Anyone care to name some of the popular products that use this deceptive labeling? Let's start with possibly the most popular protein around: Cytosport's MuscleMilk. Cytosport's Evopro as well. Both BSN's Syntha-6 and Lean Dessert are culprits.

[grifter]

5151
You can add Dymatize - Mega Shake, Ultimate Nutrition - Iso Mass Extreme Gainer (which I like) but it does offer whey protein isolates, milk protein isolates, egg protein isolate and then the micellar alpha-beta caseins.

May I propose another question? Which of the proteins-gainers are at the top of their game? I use to use Allmax Isoflex which by reading the label sounds like a good product.

[Musclehead]

If it's illegal to put “Micellar Alpha and Beta Caseins and Caseinates?” then why doesn't Health Canada or the FDA do anything....they have the final say in a product being approved, no?

Personally, I am really enjoying the taste of the Dymatize 12h protein....although I know it's impossible to have it steadily release for 12hous lol, I'll have to check the label when I get home. I think I'd still buy it though, the taste of the blueberry muffin is unbelievable. If it's an inferior protein though, maybe I'll take my money elsewhere.

[5151]

If it's illegal to put “Micellar Alpha and Beta Caseins and Caseinates?” then why doesn't Health Canada or the FDA do anything....they have the final say in a product being approved, no?

Personally, I am really enjoying the taste of the Dymatize 12h protein....although I know it's impossible to have it steadily release for 12hous lol, I'll have to check the label when I get home. I think I'd still buy it though, the taste of the blueberry muffin is unbelievable. If it's an inferior protein though, maybe I'll take my money elsewhere.

I'll make no comment on the legality of the labeling as I'm sure it varies from country to country and reading those documents doesn't seem like the most appealing thing to me while the Yanks are in town. If I get some free time maybe I'll explore. On most products you will find this disclaimer: * These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
The point is there is no reason the company wouldn't just put Micellar Casein if they were offering a complete product. When I buy a BCAA product I don't want just isoleucine and valine.

[5151]

5151
You can add Dymatize - Mega Shake, Ultimate Nutrition - Iso Mass Extreme Gainer (which I like) but it does offer whey protein isolates, milk protein isolates, egg protein isolate and then the micellar alpha-beta caseins.

May I propose another question? Which of the proteins-gainers are at the top of their game? I use to use Allmax Isoflex which by reading the label sounds like a good product.

I use Isoflex as well. When it comes to pure isolates you just have to trust the company you are buying from.

[Sean Summers]

Like they are any better. I would suggest you read the label.
SS

[grifter]

Like they are any better. I would suggest you read the label.
SS

Sorry SS, isnt this why we are having this conversation. Reading the label to find out what protein sources different companies are using.

[Gettin'r'round]

I get pure Micellar Casein from www.proteinfactory.com .

[fathead]

Like they are any better. I would suggest you read the label.
SS

can youi elaborate please SS

[5151]

Like they are any better. I would suggest you read the label.
SS

The ambiguity of this comment makes it difficult to respond to. Care to clarify?

[Musclehead]

The point is there is no reason the company wouldn't just put Micellar Casein if they were offering a complete product. When I buy a BCAA product I don't want just isoleucine and valine.

I think, and tell if I'm wrong, that companies will use terms like this>>>>“Micellar Alpha and Beta Caseins and Caseinates?” rather than JUST miscellar casein because it makes it sound better and to the "ignorant" they will think it is a superior product. Make sense?

[5151]

that is an interesting idea however why not list all the other three fractions (delta, gamma kappa)? wouldn't that make it sound even groovier?

[Big D]

that is an interesting idea however why not list all the other three fractions (delta, gamma kappa)? wouldn't that make it sound even groovier?

yes it would.... I worked at a GNC for the summer once, and you wouldn't beleive what people buy just because it sounds or looks COOL

[5151]

Installment II: Beta-alanine Ethyl Ester

This needs no comment from myself.


Written By Dr. Roger Harris

Beta Alanine Ethyl Ester HCl
19 Nov 2007

Correctly named = Ethyl 3-aminopropionate hydrochloride

WARNING
We have seen a few alarming cases of beta alanine ethyl ester HCl advertised for sale on the internet. While it may seem that this is a new form of beta alanine, we must draw your attention to the safety data of this unnatural product.

Sigma Aldrich, one of the major global pharmaceutical and chemical suppliers, states on its own website Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), the following:
Quote:
1 - Toxicological Information
SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS OF EXPOSURE
To the best of our knowledge, the chemical, physical, and toxicological properties have not been thoroughly investigated.

MSDS is the international data standard covering a wide range of safety information intended for research and industrial handling of products and complies with international treaties. As a major global pharmaceutical company Sigma Aldrich really are a company that have access to current safety information.

Here's the link if you may want to go to and check for yourself.

Or alternatively you can go through the WWW to their site and do a search for the chemical and then click to see the MSDS page. The company is Sigma Aldrich.

Why you should be concerned.
This is not a natural chemical. It is not beta alanine. Whilst the name retains the words beta alanine it is not the same - it is chemically changed and the correct full name is ethyl 3-aminopropionate hydrochloride.

Without genuine clinical safety trials, which can take decades, to investigate safety for humans and possible long term side effects, it is not possible to say that this ethyl ester derivative is safe.

Technical stuff
Part of the molecule has been covalently esterified (in this case to add on a -CH2CH3 or ethyl side chain). Esterifcation is a reaction between a carboxylic acid group -COOH with an alcohol group. Covalent bonds are chemically strong and do not simply dissolve or break down in the body unless they come under chemical attack or the body has a specific enzyme to perform this function.

HCl
The term hydrochloride is not part of the chemical structure. It is not covalently bonded to the rest of the molecule and only forms a weak 'ionic' association. The HCl is released as soon as it is mixed with water or when it enters the stomach for example, in contrast to the ethyl ester.

Chemically changing a molecule and toxicity.
Curiously there are two serious problems that are always overlooked (or deliberately avoided) when those sorts of products are marketed.
1. To be effective the ethyl side chain must be removed because it alters the chemical properties and prevents the specific enzymes from utilising the so-called beta alanine 'part' of the molecule.
2. The new ester chemical might be so close in shape to the original that not only does it find the necessary enzyme but it may also bind to it blocking the reaction site. If this happens permanently this is known as Non-competitive inhibition and this can be toxic.

Urban myth
The belief is that by altering the structure the chemical becomes more easily absorbed - however beta alanine (the real thing already is easily absorbed).

A similar myth has been created for creatine ethyl ester. Again, to be effective the ethyl ester side chain MUST be removed - otherwise you don't have creatine you actually have (?-Methylguanido)-acetyl-ethyl ester. This could be removed by a blood plasma borne esterase enzyme - totally defeating the claimed benefits in the first place. Because as soon as the side chain is chemically removed all you have once again is creatine that still has to be transported into muscle cells via the transporter- Didn't they tell you this bit? It would be interesting to see the results of a kinetics study of the effect of creatine ethyl ester upon Creatine Kinase (CK). CK is the body's only enzyme that can utilise creatine by adding a phosphate group - ready then to be used to regenerate ATP. CK is found in 3 isoforms: muscle, blood and brain. Something to risk toxic effects with? We think not.

[5151]

Now the fun part: pointing and calling names. VPX's NO Shotgun and Muscletech's Nanovapor are the only ones I see in the fitness etc store. VPX uses it in CEX as well.

[D-S]

I dont use much powders anymore, but me and alot of my buddies have been getting good results from true protien...and there premium flavours are wicked...the fruit punch tastes amazing

[5151]

Installment III: Creatine Kre Alkalyn
This isn't so much a debunking but what I'm trying to accomplish here is for people to realize this supplement is nothing more than creatine with a few buffers. Here is the US patent for it:
The first is a powder mix having the following formulation:
Creatine Monohydrate 5000 mg
Sugar (from dextrose, fructose, sucrose, 10-15 g
or a type of sugar)
Maltodextrin (from corn and/or rice) 5-10 g
Soda Ash 50 mg-1.5 g
Natural and/or Artificial Flavors 2 g
Magnesium Glycerol Phosphate 500 mg
Aspartame, Acesulfame K, Sucralose 200 mg
and/or Stevia Extract
(Powder mix can be with/without
flavors, sugars or sweeteners)

In capsule form, the capsule includes the following formulation:
Creatine Monohydrate 1000 mg
Maltodextrin 200 mg
Magnesium Stearate 5 mg
Magnesium Glycerol Phosphate 25 mg
Soda Ash 5-1000 mg
Natural and/or Artificial Flavors 20 mg

In tablet form, the formulation is as follows:
Creatine Monohydrate 250 mg
Sorbitol 400 mg
Microcrystalline Cellulose 50 mg
Magnesium Stearate 5 mg
Magnesium Glycerol Phosphate 25 mg
Soda Ash 5-500 mg


In liquid form, the formulation is as follows:
Creatine Monohydrate 3 grams
Water 1-30 ml
Glycerine 1-30 ml
Magnesium Glycerol Phosphate 25 mg
Natural and/or Artificial Flavors 5 ml
Soda Ash 50-1000 mg
Potassium Sorbate 200 mcg


In a softgel form, the formulation is as follows:
Creatine Monohydrate 100 mg
Sugar 300 mg
Chocolate 50 mg
Soy Bean Oil 500 mg
Magnesium Glycerol Phosphate 25 mg
Soda Ash 5-1000 mg


Essentially what we have here is Creatine monohydrate and some baking soda. Take from this what you will.

[Ritch]

The biggest scam of all these "special supplements" has to be the creatine kre alkalyn. The poor suckers who buy bottle of this stuff which would be what? a 4-8 weeks supply max I`m guessing when you can buy plain mono, or ethyl ester for about the same price and have over a year`s worth!

[Gib]

Good thread, this is exactly why i would rather just spend money on food, protein poweder, and maybe even some AAS. At least you KNOW those work.

Any chance of an objective review of the NO products out today?

[5151]

Good thread, this is exactly why i would rather just spend money on food, protein poweder, and maybe even some AAS. At least you KNOW those work.

Any chance of an objective review of the NO products out today?

I was going to pick on multi-vitamins next. I try to stick more with ingredients for example BAEE, Kre-Alkalyn etc. many of which are in popular NO products. Is there a particular NO product your looking at? My view on most: they suck.

[Gib]

ha! Nope, your two word synopsis on them was all i needed, and confirmed what i had suspected.

[AlbertaBeef]

I think the effect of these products is directly proportionate to your conditioning. If you're out of shape, scrawny and have a poor diet then this will be jet fuel for you as I have seen with some of the kids in my gym. I tried the NOexplode and it hurt my guts and that's about it.

[ManInTheBox]

The thing is, it's not illegal to provide an incomplete casein protein as may be the case.

This is a case of Caveat Emptor - buyer beware. Supplement companies selling so-called "incomplete casein" are allowed to because that is the product being sold. The protein may be incomplete, however it does include casein chains - thus rendering the product a casein product. In this sense, a motion of false advertising would fail - they are, after all, selling Casein Protein. If the buyer seeks a full chain of supplied Casein Protein, then I suggest they carefully consider the product label.

Foreward thinking, eh?

[5151]

The thing is, it's not illegal to provide an incomplete casein protein as may be the case.

This is a case of Caveat Emptor - buyer beware. Supplement companies selling so-called "incomplete casein" are allowed to because that is the product being sold. The protein may be incomplete, however it does include casein chains - thus rendering the product a casein product. In this sense, a motion of false advertising would fail - they are, after all, selling Casein Protein. If the buyer seeks a full chain of supplied Casein Protein, then I suggest they carefully consider the product label.

Foreward thinking, eh?

Thanks for clearing that up. I was unaware of the legality of doing such in Canada. The blogpost is coming from England where the law may be different however illegal or legal it is a shady practice many should be aware of.

[L3]

i think NO products get hated on depending on the reason why someone takes them...

if you take them to put on 20lbs in 1 month like the label says, tehn yes theyre garbage dont waste your money on them

if you take them to get a bunch of stimulants and arginine for the pump, then they work great.. some better than others obviously, but thats why you take more than the rec dosage right?

whenever i buy my preworkout first i look at price, then ingridient list, not the one liners on the label give me a break we all konw better

[5151]

i think NO products get hated on depending on the reason why someone takes them...

if you take them to put on 20lbs in 1 month like the label says, tehn yes theyre garbage dont waste your money on them

if you take them to get a bunch of stimulants and arginine for the pump, then they work great.. some better than others obviously, but thats why you take more than the rec dosage right?

whenever i buy my preworkout first i look at price, then ingridient list, not the one liners on the label give me a break we all konw better

That's fair enough. However in my opinion you would be better off buying a strictly stimulant product (ie caffeine, AMP or something of the sort) rather than buying one of these shotgun approach supplements.

That's not to say there aren't certain products that are to be taken preworkout that I think are valuable I just don't like the NO designation. That being said I am EXTREMELY interested in seeing the new version of Omega Thunder. Call me biased but I believe this product will embarrass other preworkout formulas.

[CreatineAmonster]

Great thread now beat the crap out of multi's thats what I was comming over hear to read :a+

[5151]

Great thread now beat the crap out of multi's thats what I was comming over hear to read :a+

Haha I have been neglecting this thread. I will start my attack on multis no later than this weekend, scout's honor. I already have most of the stuff on Vit. E already on my computer as I posted some stuff on it elsewhere it's just condensing it into a concise post.

[CreatineAmonster]

Great I am looking forward to it and at the same time I have the feeling it is going to mean my vitamins are going to start costing me alot more then they do buying life brand at Shoppers lol

[5151]

Installment IV: Vitamin E (The start of my assault on Multi-vitamins)

Note: This will not apply to all multi-vitamins however it will to most of the one’s targeted to bodybuilders. Regardless they ALL are still shit.

Most products are dated, use cheap ingredients or plan refuse to accept scientific fact. Vitamin E consists of 8 molecules, 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols. Most products contain only alpha tocopherol, doesn’t make sense when there are 7 other isomers does it? So how can supplementing only one affect the body? Supplementing only alpha tocopherol has been shown to depress the levels of plasma gamma tocopherol. Lower gamma tocopherol levels have been linked to coronary heart disease. In fact gamma tocopherol taken in supplement form has been shown to be the most effective in preventing breast cancer. Alpha tocopherol has been linked to reducing diseases however a meta-analysis of vitamin E, supplementing was linked to increase of all-cause mortality, perhaps this is because so much research has been done only using alpha tocopherol as well as on smokers. Smokers should be most wary of taking a product containing only alpha tocopherol. Nitrogen dioxide is pro-oxidant of smoking and when alpha tocopherol reacts with nitrogen dioxide it forms a mutagenic nitrosating agent, however gamma tocopherol detoxifies it.

Here is a couple abstracts and a link that is very informative:
http://www.benbest.com/nutrceut/VitaminE.html


Comparison of plasma alpha and gamma tocopherol levels following chronic oral administration of either all-rac-alpha-tocopheryl acetate or RRR-alpha-tocopheryl acetate in normal adult male subjects.
Am J Clin Nutr 1986 Mar; 43(3): 382-7.
Baker H, Handelman GJ, Short S, Machlin LJ, Bhagavan HN, Dratz EA, Frank O.

Vitamin E was administered orally (400 IU twice a day) to adult male humans for 28 days as either dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (all-rac-alpha-tocopheryl acetate) or d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate (RRR-alpha-tocopheryl acetate). Plasma alpha-tocopherol rose rapidly and fell at the same rate following cessation of supplementation with both forms of vitamin E. No significant differences in plasma alpha- or gamma-tocopherol levels were found between the two forms of vitamin E following their administration. The results confirm the currently accepted biopotencies of 1.0 IU/mg and 1.36 IU/mg, respectively for the two forms of vitamin E. Supplementation with either form of alpha-tocopheryl acetate resulted in depressing plasma gamma-tocopherol to less than 1/3 of initial levels; also the gamma/alpha ratio was depressed to less than 1/7 of the initial value. The study suggests that the gamma/alpha vitamin E ratio might also serve as a sensitive index of alpha-tocopherol ingestion.


Gamma, but not alpha, tocopherol levels in serum are reduced in coronary heart disease patients.
J Intern Med 1996 Feb; 239(2): 111-7.
Ohrvall M, Sundlof G, Vessby B.

OBJECTIVES. Low concentrations of alpha tocopherol are claimed to be associated with an increased prevalence of coronary heart disease. This study was undertaken to see whether measurements of serum tocopherol concentrations can contribute to discrimination between subjects with and without coronary heart disease. SETTING. All patients had been referred to the department of cardiology of the University Hospital in Uppsala, Sweden. SUBJECTS. Male patients (n = 69) below 60 years of age with coronary heart disease (CHD) and healthy age-matched reference subjects (n = 138) were compared. RESULTS. Lipid-corrected alpha tocopherol concentrations did not differ significantly between the groups, but the CHD group had a lower mean concentration of gamma tocopherol and a higher alpha/gamma ratio. In a stepwise logistic regression analysis, the LDL/HDL ratio was the best independent discriminator between the groups, followed by the proportion of palmitic acid in the cholesterol esters and the alpha/gamma tocopherol ratio. CONCLUSIONS. The lower gamma tocopherol concentration and the high ratio between alpha and gamma tocopherol in the CHD group indicate a difference in antioxidative status between CHD patients and healthy subjects. The lipid-lowering treatment of these CHD patients is far from optimal.