9 Weeks out - OCT 19th - November 3rd.

[kindofabigdeal8]

Alright, it's been a good year. Great off season, quads a little better, hams better. Still not 100% but I feel good about competing this year. I have been doing a lot of experimentation with nutrition (timing) ,supplementation and split routines. The other change in my off season was that I kept it relatively clean, which seemed to be critical to a quick cut.
I started cutting about 12 weeks out from the Winston invitational. I'm currently 9 weeks out and feeling good about things. I may through in a short clean bulk weeks 6-2 then 2 weeks out fish and veggies up to a carb up on tues, weds or Thursday depending on how flat I look.
I know this strategy is untraditional but I would like to come in the show large and I believe that I am at a low bf percentage already. I hope that 3 weeks of hard HIIT twice daily and a very strict diet should get me to 5-6% for week 6.
Here is a pic of 9 weeks out. Any advice would help. Also this picture was taken after a cheat meal; all you can eat sushi. I am 231lbs in the pic.

[Andre Gregoire]

Have you competed before? Do you have pics of your previous conditioning?

I ask because I'm not familiar with your history..

In my opinion unless you are a very experienced competitor doing a clean bulk 6 weeks out of from a contest is a mistake. It would be safer to just cut more slowly.

[kindofabigdeal8]

Thanks for the feed back Andre. In response to your question, I have only one OPA year under my belt two shows back to back. I have a thread here which speaks to it http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/showthread.php?23764-Ottawa-2012-London-2012. I don't plan on clean bulking unless i'm diced 6 weeks out and i will not speed diet, my calories are always high. That being said im so tall and afraid to come in looking stringy

[TT Eric]

Looking good Paul!

Eric

[chickenlegs]

I don't compete but from my perspective lower abs is the only flaw I see. I presume it's normal as you are still weeks out from the show. I would be happy to achieve the musculature you have one day.

[kindofabigdeal8]

Thanks chicken legs. I should actually use that as my screen name, lol. Honestly, for those who have seen me on stage my legs have improved drastically but they still need work. There is still a large discrepancy between upper and lower mass and I assume it will likely take another year to fully bridge the gap.

As for fat, I have a significant amount left to lose but 4 weeks with HITT cardio and a sound diet should be realistic. One can never really know, it may take longer, let the chips fall as they may I guess. Chicken legs; in terms of fat you have to take into consideration that little bits of fat pockets store in odd places, including the fat on the gluts, rear lower back, lower abs and around the chest. My opinion is if you get on stage with fat that hangs you may as well go home.

Back to my original question; if I can get that lean which I have before (at maybe 5% or less) what would stop me from clean bulking at a surplus of 500+, low GI carbs, lean proteins and EFA’s. I want to look great for the Winston invite but it is a trial run for the Ottawa’s. If I come in to watery in the Winston I can fix within the two weeks for the Ottawa’s. Technically that would give me a lot of time to come in perfect at the GNC Ottawa show. I’m floating around 230 in that pic, and am wondering if I can be a really heavy HW or a SH in October and a shredded 214ish for the Ottawa show.

If anyone has experience with growing into a show I would like to know how you approached it and if any words of caution so I don’t make a critical mistake 2 weeks out. Does anyone drink water up to weigh-in; cut water after. What technique is used; natural diuretic; loop? Carbs intake to come in heavy and full but not full of water?

[steve_d]

I agree - wouldn't clean bulk leading into a show. If for some reason one mis-timed there diet and was leaner way too early then yes, it probably makes sense to up the calories, or cheat more often. However, being 9 weeks out, and planning to get stage ready by week 6, then yoyo back up until 2 weeks, and shred from there, just doesn't sound like the right thing to do. If you feel ahead of the game at this point, the best thing to do is continue dieting but not 'suffering'. Ease back a bit and continue to lose at a slower pace, and/or enjoy a few more cheats here and there.

It also will allow you to do a possible 'mock carb up' if you're ready a little early.

As for cutting water, etc, everyone reacts differently. And everyone reacts differently at different times. Personally I will never cut water ever again until bedtime the night before. Do it if you are really aiming for a specific weight class, but honestly if you are using the show as a qualifier for the next level show, you're still better off weighing at the low end of a weight class looking better than coming in at the top end and looking a little worse. The same might not be true if all your after is a trophy. If you're simply trying to qualify for the next show, then I would think if you can't place in the next class up at a low weight, then you're not really ready for the next level! Not sure how good I explained that, but basically - if you're 226 on stage and placing 6th (not qualifyinig), but had you come in under 225 and placed 5th (qualifying), then you're still not ready - qualified or not!

So to sum up, I'd continue the diet but constantly make sure you're not stage ready 5 weeks out. slow and steady better than yo-yo - particularly if you have the option and no before hand what your plan will be. 9 weeks out is not the time to worry about bringing up bodyparts. You recognize that there are improvements that could be made, but there will always be improvements to be made down the road. do those for the next show. You said you feel good about competing this year. if so, do it... as long as your brain is in it 100%.

[natenator]

growing into a show lmao. Biggest myth going.

Unless you're a hyper responder (eg: Levrone) or had some considerable time off (eg: levrone/cutler) then you won't be growing into anything

[kindofabigdeal8]

Thank you, you are all experienced competitors and know what you are talking about so I will take your advice; slow and steady wins the race. I guess I will take it as a good thing that I am well on track in terms of fat and composition. I like eating a lot of clean sushi as a Sunday carb up so I guess I will keep that up for the next couple weeks, I can try to decrease the cardio as well.
Steve_D, I can tell you one thing and that is my head is in this 100%. I have been preparing for this all year and have figured out how to balance my work life and home life, part of the reason why I stayed dedicated in my off season to a clean/no shit diet. The show is starting to consume my time more and more but it doesn’t have a negative impact on me psychologically, in fact I love prep. I do want a trophy, but I understand that I have to deserve it and deserve to the next level. The win is not the be all and end all but it certainly would be nice to have some validation. Anyhow, the fun is partially in the process so whatever happens, happens. I do want to bring my best; in terms of size and conditioning.
I guess I don’t plan on growing into the show, just prevention of being flat.
Let’s talk carb up. My first show people were telling me to carb up as far out as Tuesday and these were some seasoned competitors here in Ottawa. A trainer/competitor at a local gym had seen me on Wednesday and recommended that I carb up ASAP , she also told me that it may be too late. My coach initially had planned for a Thursday night or Friday carb up, but then agreed that I could start the Wednesday. I started with sweet potatoes and rice, switched to rice only on Friday; about 1 cup every 2 hours. I continued to lose weight over those days, and continued to lose weight Saturday even with the introduction of heavy carbs before night show. I had a huge meal after the show and instantly looked full but bloated; over the day’s that followed I looked really good. Full, abs were better, frame looked better. My coach did say I was very dry for the show, and I was, very dry and vascular but I felt stringy. Maybe I just don’t have the mass yet, I don’t know. Based on this scenario when should have I started my carb-up?
In terms of carb sources after the show I was eating a lot of oats, making protein pancakes and protein cookies with oats/egg whites/protein powder and sweetener. Two days after the show I felt stage ready; does this mean I responded well to the oats over white rice?
Sorry guys, I know I am being demanding here but your opinions matter. Thanks again. Paul

[steve_d]

Thank you, you are all experienced competitors and know what you are talking about so I will take your advice; slow and steady wins the race. I guess I will take it as a good thing that I am well on track in terms of fat and composition. I like eating a lot of clean sushi as a Sunday carb up so I guess I will keep that up for the next couple weeks, I can try to decrease the cardio as well.
Steve_D, I can tell you one thing and that is my head is in this 100%. I have been preparing for this all year and have figured out how to balance my work life and home life, part of the reason why I stayed dedicated in my off season to a clean/no shit diet. The show is starting to consume my time more and more but it doesn’t have a negative impact on me psychologically, in fact I love prep. I do want a trophy, but I understand that I have to deserve it and deserve to the next level. The win is not the be all and end all but it certainly would be nice to have some validation. Anyhow, the fun is partially in the process so whatever happens, happens. I do want to bring my best; in terms of size and conditioning.
I guess I don’t plan on growing into the show, just prevention of being flat.
Let’s talk carb up. My first show people were telling me to carb up as far out as Tuesday and these were some seasoned competitors here in Ottawa. A trainer/competitor at a local gym had seen me on Wednesday and recommended that I carb up ASAP , she also told me that it may be too late. My coach initially had planned for a Thursday night or Friday carb up, but then agreed that I could start the Wednesday. I started with sweet potatoes and rice, switched to rice only on Friday; about 1 cup every 2 hours. I continued to lose weight over those days, and continued to lose weight Saturday even with the introduction of heavy carbs before night show. I had a huge meal after the show and instantly looked full but bloated; over the day’s that followed I looked really good. Full, abs were better, frame looked better. My coach did say I was very dry for the show, and I was, very dry and vascular but I felt stringy. Maybe I just don’t have the mass yet, I don’t know. Based on this scenario when should have I started my carb-up?
In terms of carb sources after the show I was eating a lot of oats, making protein pancakes and protein cookies with oats/egg whites/protein powder and sweetener. Two days after the show I felt stage ready; does this mean I responded well to the oats over white rice?
Sorry guys, I know I am being demanding here but your opinions matter. Thanks again. Paul

If you have enough time, play around with your weekly carb ups to see when you look best. Since my last show I've learned alot what works for me. I think carb/fat/shit load tricks are the least important thing in getting show day lean. getting as lean as you possibly can before hand should be number 1. Making sure you don't get flat number 2. Avoiding getting flat has a whole lot more to do with water than it does with carbs, sodium, etc. Learn your body.

I had people telling me to use diuretics for my last show, which I didn't touch - in the end, I still lost way too much water, couldn't hold onto anything (my point is, don't listen to everyone because everyone has a different opinion). Some people obviously don't work the same and hold water like a camel. It's impossible to say the best method, as long as you follow the 100s of protocols that exist, they will all likely work ... if you're shredded! The minor differences that you may think you see in the mirror from 1 day to the next in the final week are actually a whole lot less visible on stage to the judges (as long as you're shredded to begin with). Getting dry sometimes means sacrificing fullness, some people that may work to their advantage, some people not. Again, its more of a trial and error thing to looking your best over time.

Best thing you can do is get crazy lean - once there, hopefully you still have 3 weeks to go, then get even leaner :)

Last week less is more. The body is amazing at knowing that your trying to trick it. So many people talk about peak week being the most important to getting the show ready look. I don't think that's at all the case. You should be lean enough and to the point that when you wake up you are scared of what you see. You should be peeing all night and dropping 7-8 piounds of water in your sleep. Waking up where you can hardly get down the stairs, skin tight, dry as hell... That's when you're ready - and at that point, you basically don't need to change anything in the last few days aside from making sure you have the proper energy to pose and get a pump.


Just to add a little extra to this... I've seen/heard/read so many protocols in the final week. One thing that astounds me is people talking abotu 'carbing' up early - ie tuesday. In their protocol they eat something like 250g carbs a day for 2-3 days. minimal fats and protein... Seriously... that's barely enough calories to get a bikini competitor through the day - how is that going to fill out a 250 pounds bodybuiilder/?!~?! Latest one I heard was something about how carb loading was bad and fat loading fills muscles better. I read the article, sounded great and all, but then read the diet given... in the end, about 70% calories were carbs... So people either need to learn more about macros or take a course in math...

Finally, I've done at least 20 shows now, all of which I've followed different approaches, all of them basically worked just as good as the last. Don't get me wrong, there are things NOT to do... but so many things you can do and still look your best. Sometimes its almost worth choosing the one that's funnest, or will put the biggest smile on your face. EX. would you rather eat french fries, or rice cakes with peanut butter.

[Praetorian]

Look at your worst body part not your best to see where you are. Post pics of your glutes and hams and youll see where you are. Unless you have striated glutes already you had a lot of dieting to do yet.

P

[kindofabigdeal8]

True... Im just looking at trajectory in comparison to last show, and for my first show I was told I had striated glutes. I look about how i did 4 weeks out then. I guess I will just pass on doing fish and veggies during week 2. Maybe like Steve D said, slow it down. I am doing HIIT 2x20 min on S.M plus a body group a day.
I have pics from this morning, i can see striations in my chest and shoulder's as clear as day now.
I was 224lb this morning. Should I increase my carbs, right now just eating post and one carb up day at 500 grams, one major cheat meal the day prior of all you can eat sushie; only white tuna rice, and clean rolls with avacodo, cucumber, meat no mayo. I don’t count my cal’s on that meal but usually eat about 20 pieces of white tuna and maybe 16 worth in the roll. The rest of the day I sip on amino’s and do protein; egg white and fish.
Monday to Friday consists of roughly 8 meals; egg whites 50g, fish 40 g, almond butter, mct to cook my meat and eggs and about 50 g of carbs; oats,SP,BR only post work out.
My scale weight has been 224-230 day- night consistant.
I am supplementing well! Details should be started in another thread.
BCAA’s throughout the day; all day 110 servings of amino core in 6 days.
Whey hydorlysed post workout only; sometimes in my protein pancakes..
Any advices? Should I keep it status quo and reduce cardio, increase carbs. Thoughts gents.

[steve_d]

True... Im just looking at trajectory in comparison to last show, and for my first show I was told I had striated glutes. I look about how i did 4 weeks out then. I guess I will just pass on doing fish and veggies during week 2. Maybe like Steve D said, slow it down.

Don't slow down too much - go at a rate that you feel is not hindering your progress in the gym. If you end up way to ripped a few weeks out, you can just cheat more. If at 2-3 weeks out you aren't suffering though, you're likely not "way too ripped"... It's not easy, and my guess from the above comment, without seeing pictures, is that you probably could stand to have lost at least 2-3 weeks worth of dieting quite hard from your last show. when you have striated glutes, you don't need to be told, you just know it, lol. The skin on you're glutes will start feeling a lot more like skin on your privates. That's when you're ready.

[St]

Ya pics are best to post, make sure there clear.

As for 9 weeks just diet, don`t play round.

BTW I will be doing the same show, maybe we can meet up and chat at the show.

Best of luck, and its all about doing many shows and you will finally see what works best for you, and don`t take advice from everyone and this will do more harm than good. I end up doing my Nutritionist for this exact reason, and went to Medical school and finally I don`t need everyone`s help.

If you need proper help i`m in the same city and Judge for 8 years, I will tell you if your ready or not in person...in a nice way...not like so many people that make you feel like shit and feel low.

[kindofabigdeal8]

36048 36045 36046 36047

Ok, This is what i have.. these pics are from sat, sun.. sunday was my cheat day.. so i look full. Sat was 9 weeks out. Weight 224- after carb up 229

[kindofabigdeal8]

These are most recent after a 4 day no carb. 9-8 weeks to go, 223 on my scale
36051 36052 36053

[TT Eric]

The separation you have between upper chest and middle reminds me of Franco Columbu.

Eric

[St]

You look very lean, just some a little fat on the back.

But overall you look very lean you should be happy, but once you have glutes or Christmas tree then your ready.

[Praetorian]

Legs, hams, and glutes...where are those pics?
P

[kindofabigdeal8]

Legs, hams, and glutes...where are those pics?
P

I took one of my quads, glutes and hams i can’t because the mirrors are too high, i will see if my fiancé can take a pic. I have been using steveD's recommendation and having a high cal cheat day on leg days in hopes that it will help add some size before the show. I would actually love to have a shot of my back pose with the hams and gluts in.
Anyhow, i think i over did it on my sushi reefed this week, unless i am holding a lot of water. I was in the 230's again last night. I’m not going to lie, I decreased my cardio and upped my calories as well. I don’t think it was a great idea, I don’t think that it’s a bad thing though. In my mind I am certain 8 weeks is a ton of time.

[kindofabigdeal8]

360643606536066
More of the same, but I see progression in fullness after the carb ups and calorie surplus.

[Hosehead]

Looking pretty swole dude. Good luck the rest of the way.

[Praetorian]

Lower back, quads, glutes?

P

[steve_d]

I took one of my quads, glutes and hams i can’t because the mirrors are too high, i will see if my fiancé can take a pic. I have been using steveD's recommendation and having a high cal cheat day on leg days in hopes that it will help add some size before the show. I would actually love to have a shot of my back pose with the hams and gluts in.
Anyhow, i think i over did it on my sushi reefed this week, unless i am holding a lot of water. I was in the 230's again last night. I’m not going to lie, I decreased my cardio and upped my calories as well. I don’t think it was a great idea, I don’t think that it’s a bad thing though. In my mind I am certain 8 weeks is a ton of time.

8 weeks is a tun of time - even if your legs and glutes are soft, your upper body isn't. Many people can look soft all over 8 weeks out and get it together by show day. I don't like playing catch up though - I tend to look ready quite early. When you're ready, you seriously can eat an all out cheat and basically do nothiing to hurt your physique. You'll probably find you might look only a tad softer the next day, but by the day after that you'll feel dry and still full. Night time weight doesn't matter. Its how much you end up peeing through the night that does. I can cheat up to 190 pounds, and by next morning I am back to 180.

Just keep plugging away. The scale at this point will likely not go up due to muscle mass increases - so even though people say looking in the mirror is the best guage , you'll probably also want to make sure the scale continues to drop. If its not, you're probably stalling, eating too much, or not enough cardio. Mirror isn't always the best gauge either. At least for some. Some people are over critical and end up seeing fat that isn't actually there. Others will focus on their best parts and not see the fat that actually IS there. The best gauge is an unbiased friend that won't blow smoke up your ass, and who also knows what it takes to look good on stage. No, just because the veins are popping, that doesn't mean your shredded.

So find someone who can assess you in person. Although, at the same time, when your really shredded, you'll still look ready in a blurry picture with bad lighting...And in that case we'll all be able to help tell you you're ready. And whne you're really really ready - you won't even need a picture , you'll just wake up and know it.

[kindofabigdeal8]

LOL.. Well said.. ok thanks sir.. no more pics.

[kindofabigdeal8]

36090

Ok someone requested the wheels, im not proud of them but here is where i will be this year.36091

[phatkid77]

I'd switch to physique. Lol take Sammy with u.. hhaah
Almost.there

[TT Eric]

Haha I'm not sure Paul would like to go in Physique! But true I think he would do good into that category.

Eric

[kindofabigdeal8]

ahahaa.. as per our conversation this morning i will take this criticism lightly sir.. No man, i know your joking but honestly Eric has a point. Maybe i would do well in physique, as specially with the legs as is.
But like you pointed out Eric, not a fan of the new physique div. in the OPA yet. There were some BB looking guys in physique last year in London who i thought looked great but i believe the judges deemed then overly muscular. If you look at the OPA guidelines they state ' physique will be deducted points if overly muscular'. What the definition of over muscularity is would be highly subjective anyways. I think i will stick to BB, Blast my legs as i have been prep time and in two years be a killer heavy/SH.




I'd switch to physique. Lol take Sammy with u.. hhaah
Almost.there

[kindofabigdeal8]

[QUOTE=TT Eric;444926]Haha I'm not sure Paul would like to go in Physique! But true I think he would do good into that category.

Eric
Im afraid i somewhat agree.

[kindofabigdeal8]

360933609436095
6 weeks out - taking it slow - carb up yesterday - 224 this AM

[Praetorian]

36090

Ok someone requested the wheels, im not proud of them but here is where i will be this year.36091


These are the pics Id be concentrating on. When you can see definite separation in your legs and hams you will be ready...at that point you wont even need to worry about your upper body. Always go by your worst body part in terms of conditioning. Its like the old saying goes...worry about the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves. I also agree with Steve...the scale going up at this point is generally water retention. Watch the scale...if it isn't dropping you have stalled and need to change things up. You will need to drop more weight if you want your legs to come in. Stop worrying about the number on the scale and focus on conditioning.

P

[phatkid77]

Ya bud..suffer !!
186# easy peezy. Lol

[kindofabigdeal8]

Ya bud..suffer !!
186# easy peezy. Lol

lol, phats brother I am so lost. This comment is about as confusing as when you asked me if keg day made me sick..

[phatkid77]

Lol!
I'm saying get back down to middles. All about the glutes. ;)

[kindofabigdeal8]

36108christ at this point it wont be possible to hit lh

[ironwill]

Ya bud..suffer !!
186# easy peezy. Lol

Phats, youre on a bb board man. Slow down and make sense when you type shit out. You arent 18 and this isnt a text message conversation...sheesh..Your random posts are a bit confusing.

LOOKING good KOBD...

[kindofabigdeal8]

361523 weeks out any advices?[ATTACH=CONFIG]36147

[St]

Getting lean keep at it cut the cals and don't worry about the weight.
Under 3 week away will see you at the show, I hope to be a batam weight.

[Rrrrolla]

Tan your ass offf. If your show doesnt allow dreamtan, looking dark on stage is damn near impossible with just protan. Thats my only advice lol, I think you are doing just fine for leaning up and if you dont let up on the diet, you'll come in nicely pealed. But ya, pump the mt-2 to ya and get as dark as humanly possible.

[Praetorian]

Tanning even with MT2 wont be enough. If dream tan isn't allowed you can still use the ProTan bronzer which is almost the same. I have still used dream tan when it wasnt allowed just need to put it on early and let your clothes and skin soak it up...then it almost dries and when you add oil nobody can tell.

Very difficult to tell your condition in those pics.

P

[natenator]

get your damn g/f or a friend to take some proper pics of you.

jesus

[TT Eric]

I have a good camera Paul if you want me to take a few pics....

Eric

[kindofabigdeal8]

Eric, Thanks sire.. sorry i have not been around, just stepping things up into high gear.. here is a pic, sorry its not pro cam quality. i have a video coming36176 up that shows how lean i am. My coach says i have Christmas tree, ham separation so i guess thats good.

[Delt King]

Looking good bro. Nice job so far.

[kindofabigdeal8]

Well guys, here is the final outcome.... 3rd place heavy weight/SH, I say HW/SH because they combined the class.. look at the monster who took first.. Ryan Gibb.. huge guy.. 3621836219362203622136222362233622436225

[kindofabigdeal8]

Thanks to all of you who helped me along the way.. look forward to provincials 2015

[TT Eric]

Congrats Paul! You made good improvement since your last show!

Now if I don't see you work your legs as hard as your chest I'm gonna whip you! :)

Eric

[kindofabigdeal8]

it was chest day yesterday, i will do legs tomorrow :shock

[St]

Hey you looked great and had amazing dark colour...congrads.:)

Did you see our Lady mod Challenger from the site.:)

[dian11]

Looks very good mate :)