1st cycle

[tex]

so I am 2 weeks in on my test e cycle....400 per week.....i can get my hands on some var......wondering if it would be advantageous to add it in....say the last 4-6 weeks.......run it after the test til i'm ready for pct......opinions?

[Bowlcut]

I would run it the last 6 weeks like you mentioned up to PCT.

[MassNutrition]

I'm kind of up in the air about this one. I say save it for your next cycle...

First, I think the 400mg of Test is plenty for your first cycle to make some decent gains. Second, I have only seen great results with Var only when I take a boatload of it (approx 80mg per day). And third, I can't help feel that the added bloat from the Test might mask the gains from the Var anyway. If you were using Propionate, I might say "yes"...

...save it for a cutter, or if you truly want to add in something, go with a different compound (EQ, Tren, etc...)

[tex]

^^ my next cycle is gonna be test prop and var.......maybe i should just save the var for next time.........

[bmorlock]

if you wanna run the var run it , you will live and learn maybe u will like it and maybe u wont , only way to find out is to do it

[Bowlcut]

I have run winny at the end of my cycle twice like you would with var and loved it.

[tex]

i was thinkin about winny.....but my knees already kill.......i'm thinking that i dont want to take anything thats gonna make them feel any worse off.......

[Bowlcut]

i was thinkin about winny.....but my knees already kill.......i'm thinking that i dont want to take anything thats gonna make them feel any worse off.......

One suggestion I have is for you to figure out what is causing your knee pain.
Is it ligament and tendon damage? Maybe your muscles are getting too strong too fast for your tendons.

Could be inflammation caused by taking stimulants like ephedrine and a diet with too many omega 6 poly fats and not enough omega 3 and mono unsaturates.

[tex]

pretty sure its from years of competitive jumping....high jump, triple jump.....its not horrible....but i'd hate for it to be any worse........

[Bowlcut]

pretty sure its from years of competitive jumping....high jump, triple jump.....its not horrible....but i'd hate for it to be any worse........

What does your vastus medialis look like in comparison to the other parts of the leg? Often volleyball players develop stronger muscles than the VM and that contributes to jumper's knee.

[jmaker]

If you have any tendon damage at all, then winny is a definite no no. Some guys stay away from Winny altogether because of its effects on your Tendons. It promotes a brittle form of collagen which can lead to injury. Even the Test that your running decreases collagen synthesis. It is highly recommended that you add EQ or Deca as they both promote collagen synthesis... the cats ass of course being GH for this.

Generally speaking, anyone who has problems with tendons, ligaments (i.e. Tendinitis) shouldn't run test alone. However, this being your first cycle, you have to weigh the pro's and con's.

[tex]

What does your vastus medialis look like in comparison to the other parts of the leg? Often volleyball players develop stronger muscles than the VM and that contributes to jumper's knee.

id say proportionate......here's a cold pic

[tex]

well all the research i did on 1st cycles pointed me to test only.......all the vets i talked to cried when i said i wanted to add in eq........now i have another idea......what if i added in npp?? id rather not get the xta bloat from deca......but i guess i would get some of the same benefits with npp? i dont know too much about it...nor do I know anyone thats used it....so any expderienced help would be appreciated......right now my knees are doing fine.....only bad when i am playing basketball ( actually only when dunking) and even ten, they are recovering very quickly.....

[jmaker]

GOOD ARTICLE - I didn't write it. Just posting it here.

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

[tex]

so i guess var or npp would be a good choice.....the npp is waaaaay cheaper.......opinions?

[jmaker]

var...

[Bowlcut]

Looks pretty proportionate. Could be over use, but I would advise against taking deca for you tendons.
HGH a definite yes if you have the money.
EQ if you don't get bad anxiety or have BP problems.

Deca is just too hard on the body I think.

[tex]

eq is out.....used to have sick panic attacks....but i think that was all in my head ;)