CT Fletcher - What is Overtraining?

[MuSuLPhReAk]

What do you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8_8phD7AwM

[Nirus]

this seems to be coming back, been reading about no such thing as over training in many muscle mags again saying that over training is actually just a lack of sleep and/or food. the idea is if your eating enough and sleeping enough you can't over train.

[Delt King]

I don't think he could get any more ghetto. Lol

People overuse overtraining as an excuse but it still exists. The central nervous system needs recovery. Someones ability to recover depends on many things, including but not limited to nutrition, sleep, genetic predispositions, whether geared or not and the type of training done etc.

[TT Eric]

I won't said it too loud but age also doesn't help.

:confused:

Eric

[steve_d]

The way I see it is that overtraining is about as much truth as metabolic damage amd thyroid disease. Sure, it can exist, but probably only 1% of the total number of times it is tossed around. For the average person, over training is BS. The only time i don't feel great in the gym is: not enough food (ie end of a contest prep), not enough sleep (pretty much at the end of a contest prep, or after having a newborn in the house for a couple weeks) - and c) if I am sick.

None of which relates to overtraining. I think overtraining is when you train 6 hours a day, and then do it again and again working the same bodyparts without adequate recovery. And even then, you probably aren't 'overtrained' in the same sense most people talk about. You're just 'poorly trained' or training inefficiently.

[Stampeder]

Can someone please tell my tendonitis that over-training is a myth. We seem to be in disagreement about it.

[Nirus]

http://youtu.be/JHiKDa4ip_Q
love this video hahahah this guy is intense

[steve_d]

Can someone please tell my tendonitis that over-training is a myth. We seem to be in disagreement about it.

when people use the word over training, they aren't talking about an overuse injury. Things like tendonitis are very different then over training! I get really bad tendonitis if I arm wrestle. I learned that years ago in university and never arm wrestled again. I also get issues when I shovel heavy snow. And most often I get these issue when my immune system is down when fighting off a bug. I have lower back issues now that prevents me from squatting every workout - but I can still manage every second workout. I also needed to modify the way I train back - no more heavy deads. So training smarter has solved most of my ailments. However, the way I train now isn't more relaxed than it was before. I train with the same intensity and duration as ever before.

So, in the end, I volunteer to tell your tendonitis that over training is a myth! :)

With all seriousness, yes - part of recovering from injuries sometimes takes easing off working out - but not necessarily all exercises. If tendonitis is the only symptom, then this is definitely not a case of over-training. Typically people who are over trained have a whole host of symptoms, and really it would resemble alot more like someone who is diagnosed with depression then someone who has trouble breaking personal bests in the gym, or getting a few more injuries than normal. People may not agree with me, that's fine. I just think over-training is not something people should toss around as an excuse for improper training techniques. I've also heard many people use this term in more of a 'bragging' way than anything else.... Don't take this this wrong way stampeder - If you think you have an issue with over training - then perhaps you fall in that very small % of people who legit have that sort of problem. I just would bet it is something else.

[TT Eric]

Overtraining does exist. The CNS can be depleted, if you give 100% all the time, go to failure and beyond, it will come to a point where progression will stop and even regress. For example one week you do a PR and then next week you try to do it again and can't duplicate it, is an example that the CNS did not recuperate enough in between.

Personally I am close to overtraining and I have to watch for it. For example longtime ago I was training high volume 6 days a week and all of sudden without any change in my diet, training or else I lost 1'' of arm in a week - which is a lot - BTW this not BS' I'm very meticulous about taking note since the 80s, I note every reps/weight I use for every workout, measure my bodyweight everyday and I use to measure every muscle every week (in fact I was so zealous, I was measuring them everyday when I was making my fast newbie gain) and was noting everything (still do this even today). Since my arms always have been my weakness, loosing 1'' over nothing is A LOT. It took me 2 years to get that inch back. In that time I was followed by a trainer and he told me the volume was too big for the intensity I was putting and I had overtrained my arms. He was a good experienced trainer at that time, measuring me every 3 months, was adapting my routine to work weaknesses, etc.

So regression with too much volume here.

Also a few years later, after years of training 2-2.5 hrs per day, 6 days a week, without missing, I had been advice to take a week off, in that week I took 5 lean pounds, my weight was stuck for the whole last year (and progress in gym was negligible) to the same exact pound, strength went up big time when I was back in the gym, it made me realize I was not made for that much volume (with that high level of intensity I was putting on). So I adjusted my training consequently by reducing volume a lot, and made quite some noticeable gain the year after, in weight (mass) and strength.

So with less volume I made better gain, another sign of overtraining.

Eric

[steve_d]

I'll agree with the above... But I guess its just one of those terms that I hear too much of. I guess its just a matter of semantics. When I hear overtraining, it usually relates to people talking about how they don't train as hard as others because they are training smarter. It often is an excuse to training less hard, or a justification for why they don't train as hard as the next guy (who coincidentally has more success).

There is person to person variability on how hard one can train to get their own optimal results. Personally, I train in the gym until I feel as though the next set is not beneficial - and perhaps a waste of time. After a while, I can feel the intensity I had for the first 90% of the workout is just not there. And this is not a matter of depleted glycogen, need for nutrients, etc. This is the point in my workout where No matter how much effort I put, I just don't feel the muscle in the same way, the number of reps diminish greatly, the pump, drive, focus, everything about the next set just 'feels' like a waste. At some points in my training this might happen sooner, or later in the workout. I feel that if somehow I continued to plow through that part of the workout, then yes - it would border on overtraining. In an effort to train harder, I've tried having a meal within workouts, resting for a short while, etc - but what I noticed is that after a certain point, my body is done. I need to go home, go to bed, recover, and start over. So yes - if someone trains through that phase, I think they might begin a cycle of overtraining. However, I'd rather call that 'training stupid'. lol.

Back to my point about using the term as an excuse.

I've compared this overuse of terminology to using metabolic damage (again, as an excuse) - another term often used on the female side of things - and especially so lately. Its all I hear about! Another one of those things where I can completely agree with - just as overtraining - in some cases... But please, don't use it as an excuse! There is a difference to training hard and overtraining. Just as there is a difference to metabolic damage, and simply not knowing how to control your cravings post show and allowing your own body adequate recovery. I suppose one could compare overtraining and metabolic damage as the same thing, just spanning different time periods. To avoid overtraining, allow adequate recovery in the short term. To avoid metabolic damage, allow adequate recovery in the long term.

PS: I wrote up my thoughts on metabolic damage for Cygen Labs... See link:

http://cygenlabs.blogspot.ca/2013/02/metabolic-damage-fact-or-fiction.html

Alot of the points I made there can also be made for overtraining.

Key thing, train smart, listen to your body - but at the same time, realizing that your body actually does respond to very hard efforts, and your body does respond to diets that would be considered 'unhealthy' by some. The key is knowing where to draw the line, and knowing what you can and cannot get away with - short and long term.