The American Election Results

[cog]

Appears a few things are changing.I couldn't see what Romney would do to help things,and his shifty behavior likely sealed his fate.Too bad Canadians dont get to vote on the side issues the Americans can.It will be interesting to see how things pan out.

[ubcpower]

Tough choice between an economy crippling socialist and a creepy tax evading mormon

[cog]

Obama poured a few more dollars into Solyndra,apparently started up by Bush.I felt the socialist tag was unfair.

[tex]

im an american and used to vote republican.....glad obama got this one....romney just looks shady....def got a creeper vibe

[cog]

I'm fairly certain his plan to immediately increase funding to the military by two trillion was intended for boots on the ground in Iran.Bunker buster bombs won't guarantee all capabilities for nukes will be erased.Perfect excuse to go in and ultimately get control of oil production rights for a few rich guys at taxpayer expense.

[natenator]

I'm fairly certain his plan to immediately increase funding to the military by two trillion was intended for boots on the ground in Iran.Bunker buster bombs won't guarantee all capabilities for nukes will be erased.Perfect excuse to go in and ultimately get control of oil production rights for a few rich guys at taxpayer expense.

I think its high time we reinstated conscription WITHOUT and ability to purchase or defer your way out of it. If the sons and daughters of politicians and the rich were placed on an equal footing with those who aren't maybe, just maybe, we'd see a different perspective on foreign policy.

For all that America talks about being the land of the free and home of the brave they are one of the worst offends in history of freedom and exemplifying bravery.

[cog]

I think its high time we reinstated conscription WITHOUT and ability to purchase or defer your way out of it. If the sons and daughters of politicians and the rich were placed on an equal footing with those who aren't maybe, just maybe, we'd see a different perspective on foreign policy.

For all that America talks about being the land of the free and home of the brave they are one of the worst offends in history of freedom and exemplifying bravery.


Maybe so,I'm not sure you could say they are any worse than the British,the Spaniards or the Turks Romans or Greeks during their heyday....agree that it sucks that the wealthy don't have to serve...my cousin lost his first son in Afghanistan.

[natenator]

The brits, spaniards, Turks, Romans and Greeks never touted the words land of the free, home of the brave ;)

Sorry to hear of your cousin.

[cog]

im an american and used to vote republican.....glad obama got this one....romney just looks shady....def got a creeper vibe

In your opinion how generous are the Americans with social assistance compared to Canada?Is it a growing problem or just a temporary situation?

[Skailes]

I'm fairly certain his plan to immediately increase funding to the military by two trillion was intended for boots on the ground in Iran.Bunker buster bombs won't guarantee all capabilities for nukes will be erased.Perfect excuse to go in and ultimately get control of oil production rights for a few rich guys at taxpayer expense.All that two trillion will go to is big business IE those that are making the weapons and IMO the average american is going to hell in a hand basket from all the wasted money that is borrowed from the National Treasury and taxes can't even begin to make dent in paying back....so it really makes no sense to keep borrowing just to make a few rich billionaires richer.....And Canada really isn't any better for borrowing and wasting money....It really makes no difference who got in and who didn't when it's big business running the governments in the free world not those elected into office. And we the little people are the ones taking it up the ass!

[cog]

All that two trillion will go to is big business IE those that are making the weapons and IMO the average american is going to hell in a hand basket from all the wasted money that is borrowed from the National Treasury and taxes can't even begin to make dent in paying back....so it really makes no sense to keep borrowing just to make a few rich billionaires richer.....And Canada really isn't any better for borrowing and wasting money....It really makes no difference who got in and who didn't when it's big business running the governments in the free world not those elected into office. And we the little people are the ones taking it up the ass!

No it doesn't make any sense to borrow from the average joes perspective.In Iraq the production rights(25 years?)went right back into the hands of the same people that controlled this in the 1930's.The Brits,French,Dutch and the Americans came in a little later,iirc.Then they can play their big accounting shell games across international borders.

[natenator]

In your opinion how generous are the Americans with social assistance compared to Canada?Is it a growing problem or just a temporary situation?

The US is ****ed. As a whole, they don't believe in the ideas of helping another fellow human being unless for their own personal gain. They espouse the virtues of libertarianism where yet few understand what that actually means. 3 tenets but one of the most fundamental at it applies to the US (and Canada) is the aspect of legally gotten gains.Which means you are entitled to what you own as long as it was obtained legally and it is upon this principal where libertarianism fails because the majority of the US and Canada is gained through ill-gotten gains. we stole from the indians, we enslaved people, we went to war for money, etc. If you trace back through history you'll quickly realize that most of North America (those who shout loudest towards liberalism) was established on the back of illegal activities.

In terms of social program, both have their thinking wrong. Not a lot of time to elaborate but I'll use health care and the poor as an example. The poor, in Ontario, cost the healthcare system $2.9B (measured in terms of if they were in the next income bracket up). We have programs to help the poor but we fail miserably. We need programs to encourage training and education in areas where there is demand. The US has something like 2MM active jobs that need filling right now, 500,000 of them are in manufacturing. I have no data on CDN similarities but no doubt we have significant opportunities as well. We need approaches to train and educate the poor for these jobs. This does four things: reduces dependency on the social safety net and the costs incurred therein; increases economic utility through additional tax revenue to the gov't and new amount of disposable income these people will now have to spend in the market; and reduces financial strain on our healthcare system; improve the self-worth of these individuals.

Just by changing our approach we've done 4 things which dramatically impact the economics of out country. More money in the system, less money being spent in the system which fees up additional money to be used towards any number of things. Pay down the debt? Fund innovation? LOTS of things and this is just one small example. Basic systems theory at play here.

The US doesn't give a shit about this though because they all believe, one day, they will be rich so they're trying to protect their future opportunities instead of facing their current realities. I could go on and on and on but I digress lol

Cheers!

[tex]

nate has it right on.....at university i belonged to the libertarian party....and its a beautiful thing if the world were a perfect place.....and therein lies the problem. i agree with nate that instead of puttin a band-aid on the problem we should be pumping money into education and training of the poor.....

[cog]

nate has it right on.....at university i belonged to the libertarian party....and its a beautiful thing if the world were a perfect place.....and therein lies the problem. i agree with nate that instead of puttin a band-ai on the problem we should be pumping money into education and training of the poor.....

Offshoring jobs hasn't helped.IMO gov involvement in training needs to be carefully considered....if gov foots the bill biz can't be trusted for accurate input.

[natenator]

Offshoring jobs hasn't helped.IMO gov involvement in training needs to be carefully considered....if gov foots the bill biz can't be trusted for accurate input.

Jobs will always be available one way or another. The key is to getting these people back on their feet and employed. Once employed they have opportunities for further work down the road. I don't believe the majority of poor and on social programs are lazy and unwilling to work. I just don't. But I also know what social programs can often pay more then a super low wage job would so if I'm a single parent and am forced between a job that pays but less than what social assistance does what do you think I'm going to do?

It's a vicious cycle. Now don't get me wrong, there are some super lazy ****ers out there tht will do anything to game the system but I really don't believe that's the majority. Hell, when big business games the system they are labeled as innovative but when a poor person on social assistance does it, thy're labeled as lazy. Both are being subsidized! Lol

[O-Train]

^^^ Biggest problems I am seeing is a combination of obesity/diabetes and psychological problems (depression/anxiety). So even if you can get these people off the couch...it only takes a strong breeze or a cloudy day to get them right back where they were. Of course as you say...it doesn't help that the system is there to give everyone an overly warm financial hug every time they feel like partaking. I've noticed that people who are on what would commonly be considered "welfare" try and convince the system that there is some medical reason that they aren't contributing to society. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and a justification for the fact that they have completely given up on life. This is not most people, not even most lower economic class people but it is a growing problem.

[cog]

Jobs will always be available one way or another. The key is to getting these people back on their feet and employed. Once employed they have opportunities for further work down the road. I don't believe the majority of poor and on social programs are lazy and unwilling to work. I just don't. But I also know what social programs can often pay more then a super low wage job would so if I'm a single parent and am forced between a job that pays but less than what social assistance does what do you think I'm going to do?

It's a vicious cycle. Now don't get me wrong, there are some super lazy ****ers out there tht will do anything to game the system but I really don't believe that's the majority. Hell, when big business games the system they are labeled as innovative but when a poor person on social assistance does it, thy're labeled as lazy. Both are being subsidized! Lol

On an American forum a poster mentioned these super low wage jobs such as Walmart and how gov sometimes has to help these people get by.Effectively taxpayers are subsidizing the Walmart heirs,and they really don't need the cash.

[cog]

^^^ Biggest problems I am seeing is a combination of obesity/diabetes and psychological problems (depression/anxiety). So even if you can get these people off the couch...it only takes a strong breeze or a cloudy day to get them right back where they were. Of course as you say...it doesn't help that the system is there to give everyone an overly warm financial hug every time they feel like partaking. I've noticed that people who are on what would commonly be considered "welfare" try and convince the system that there is some medical reason that they aren't contributing to society. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and a justification for the fact that they have completely given up on life. This is not most people, not even most lower economic class people but it is a growing problem.

Agree completely with obesity problems complicating the drive of some people.Lately a number of columnists have taken issue with Bloombergs decision to limit sugary drinks in NYC,I agree with him.When Michelle Obama tried to talk to people about healthy eating some labelled her a fascist.My father-in-law must have rubbed off on me as I agree with both of them,people on the whole cannot make the right choices here when the list includes so many bad ones legally available.Ive had quite the chuckle with some of these Sun columnists ranting on about how the gov has no right to tell people what to put in their bodies.

[Skailes]

Agree completely with obesity problems complicating the drive of some people.Lately a number of columnists have taken issue with Bloombergs decision to limit sugary drinks in NYC,I agree with him.When Michelle Obama tried to talk to people about healthy eating some labelled her a fascist.My father-in-law must have rubbed off on me as I agree with both of them,people on the whole cannot make the right choices here when the list includes so many bad ones legally available.Ive had quite the chuckle with some of these Sun columnists ranting on about how the gov has no right to tell people what to put in their bodies. Big business makes far more money from the population being sick then if it were healthy, so the whole problem boils down to the food the average person eats how it's grown and how it's prepared, the cost of fast food is generally cheaper than wholesome food so those with limited incomes are stuck trying to feed the family as best they can and that unfortunately may mean a diet high in fast food, and then you have big pharma who has a drug for what ails you from this poor diet at a hefty cost of course, so now that poor family is in the hole even deeper.

The whole system needs to be re-vamped if the average person is to have a chance and if that means outlawing fast food and making quality food more affordable then so be it....no one needs fast food EVER!! And the pharma giants can be reeled back in as well and made to make medication and general health care more affordable, and then with a higher quality diet the average person will stand a chance for better education and thus careers as well as just better over all health.

Generally though we are getting screwed on so many sides that it's really hard to find a place to start in order to help with basically healing the population, but generally putting all kinds of controls on the few big businesses that are at the heart of the problem would be a good place to start.

[cog]

The big shot shareholders of big pharma....the right people....

[natenator]

The big shot shareholders of big pharma....the right people....

As someone who consults for 3 big pharma corps I can assure you they are not that smart lmao

[cog]

I will take your word for that.What about the old European money?

[natenator]

I will take your word for that.What about the old European money?

What about it?

[cog]

I can't recall the names,lots of big ones in that French outfit.Eli Lilly has had many influential people involved.

[cog]

Ok,Roche is actually Swiss.

All shares are bearer shares,no list is kept of shareholders.

[natenator]

Looks like the US got it right...

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney is telling top donors that President Barack Obama won re-election because of the “gifts” he had already provided to blacks, Hispanics and young voters and because of the president’s effort to paint Romney as anti-immigrant.

“The president’s campaign, if you will, focused on giving targeted groups a big gift,” Romney said in a call to donors on Wednesday. “He made a big effort on small things.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/15/obama-won-election-because-of-gifts-he-gave-to-black-and-hispanic-voters-romney-tells-gop-donors/

[cog]

Just by chance,Mitt Romney is on a YouTube vid where he says he will make sure he destroys medical mj.

[Talo]

They should just split up - every election is a close one.

East / West split :)

Liberals can go East !

[cog]

The Russians just a few years ago predicted that the U.S will split into separate zones.

[Skailes]

Oh there's a great idea...divide and conquer...Split the country up ya that worked so well in the past they had a civil war.....look it matters not who got into office the same powerful people/businesses still control the country. You guys are just following the dog and pony show that is put out to the masses so that you don't notice the man behind the curtain....

[Talo]

first I was just kidding, second the civil war happend before the "west was won" they were fighting well before the whole country was as big as it is now.

[cog]

Oh there's a great idea...divide and conquer...Split the country up ya that worked so well in the past they had a civil war.....look it matters not who got into office the same powerful people/businesses still control the country. You guys are just following the dog and pony show that is put out to the masses so that you don't notice the man behind the curtain....

Plenty of people understand money men in back rooms sway,or pull strings with these frontmen.They can't see how to stop this.In Obama's case,a lot of these people just can't stand the scenario of a black man holding the top job.They voted Rep without even knowing any details of Romneys plan.