running

[Durk]

Would running three mile (30min a day) run in the morning interfere much with body building? I feel like shit when I dont do cardio, and I am just a happyer and motivated person in general when I do.

I was thinking 5 days a week. Would this be counter productive?

[cog]

Yes.Cycling is easier on the quads,low intensity cycling spreads some of the load to the hams.

[Durk]

to clarify I have a gym quality treadmill right in front of a big screen T.v. so I could do an in incline to lower the impact. Running in actual nature without movies or videogames is pretty ghey.

[cog]

Never used a treadmill for actual running,just fast walking and pushing.For myself,running strips mass from my quads.Greg Doucette has also commened on the detrimental effects of jogging.

[fathead]

jonny jackson told me he runs 10 miles a day sometimes. he has a military background. this could be BS but i dont see why.

[Delt King]

You'll find many people argue on both sides of this argument. The health results associated with cardio vascular training seem to outweigh the extra results you would get by not doing it. Assuming you aren't a national level bodybuilder then really who cares about an extra 1/2 inch on your quads. That being said...I personally don't do cardio because i absolutely hate it (even during my contest prep)

[Praetorian]

JOJ running 10 miles per day....LOL thats funny!

Running is the antithesis of BB....it is ideal at ridding your body of lean muscle, it raises cortisol, creates havoc on your joints. If you want to do something physical for cardio SPRINT!

P

[cog]

Agree with the sprinting,great for your entire lower body.Jogging is really only good for your calves.

[Skailes]

First I have to say that if you enjoy cardio/running then great....I personally hate cardio more than the dentist, and I really hate the dentist...LOL! But hey if it makes you feel good then go for it, but like Praetorian has pointed out jogging is very detrimental to your joints and this is reason enough to look to other forms of cardio like sprinting/wind sprints AKA HIIT for your cardio or just walking at a quick clip. But HIIT has been shown in many studies to have a solid effect on fat loss and muscle preservation.....Just compare a sprinter to a long distance/marathon runner and you'll see what we mean.....I've also known/know many older long distance runners who have some very nasty knee and hip issues needing replacement surgery, and I even know one gal who due in part to her love of distance running has had both knees replaced and she is very young to have had this done.

[Durk]

lol I actually have a series of bodyweight excercises that I do 1 min on, and 1 off for six sets. It simulates doing 200 meter sprints. I do it once or twice a week.

[steve_d]

Depends what your ultimate goals are. I have a hard time telling anyone that running is a bad idea! activity of any kind can't hurt. However, if you're ultimate passion is bodybuilding and putting on as much mass as possible than running 5 days per week even at a slow pace is probably not going to help.

I've always had week legs, until a couple years ago. I did triathlons/cycling/swimming/running all through my teen years. in my early to mid twenties I still rode my road bike between 200-300km per week. I finally got rid of the bike and instantly the legs grew. I didn't really train legs more or less, but the main difference was that I had more energy to put into my leg training. This was without even knowing it... for all those years I never once thought 'wow, my legs are tired from cycling or running, my leg day is going to be hard'. But what happened was that without even knowing it I was able to put more effort in training legs. At the end of the day, they responded, and caught up to my upper body.

So - as a competitive bodybuilder, running probably not the best thing to do. As a recreational bodybuilder, I say go for it especially if its something you enjoy doing. PS: I have the same setup... 120inch Uncharted 3 in 3D saved me in my last contest prep!

[Praetorian]

Here is a great article on the subject by Jason Ferruggia.
P

Many people live in constant fear that too much cardio will cause them to lose muscular size and strength. Therefore they just decide to spend their lives fat, out of shape and unhealthy. They’d rather have one foot in the grave at all times than walk around any smaller or weaker.

Growing up a skinny maggot I certainly understand this fear as it dominated many years of my life.

These fears are not unfounded as too much cardio will, indeed, eat away muscle tissue and cause strength losses.

But that’s traditional, steady state, outdated lame-o cardio done on a machine.

If you do enough of that at moderate intensity you will definitely lose muscle and end up smaller and weaker.

And you’ll have lower testosterone levels and higher cortisol to boot. Sounds like fun, right?

There are a few types of cardio, however that will actually do the opposite. Instead of cardio that just burns fat or just improves your cardiovascular system or, worse yet, does neither of those but just causes muscle loss, there is actually such a thing as muscle building cardio.

But technically it’s not called cardio. I hate that word. We call it conditioning.

Unfortunately most people waste all their time on the stair climber or eliptical machine when they could actually be doing something that will burn fat and build (or at least preserve) muscle at the same time.

My favorite types of conditioning that will actually build muscle simultaneously are sprints. You can choose from hill sprints, sled or prowler sprints… the bottom line is to sprint one way or another. If you have knee issues kettlebell swings and snatches would be a great option for you. Another often forgotten conditioning method is rope jumping. This will not have as much of an overall anabolic or muscle sparing effect as sprints but it can lead to calf size increases. It’s also awesome for improving foot speed, not to mention the fact that being really good at it is just pretty damn cool.

Sprints will build up the hamstrings and glutes tremendously. Sprints are also one of the best forms of abdominal training you could do. You ever see the glutes and abs on a sprinter? You want yours to look like that? Then get sprinting.

Kettlebell swings and snatches will build up your lower back (to give it that nice divot look), glutes and shoulders.

And jumping rope will lead to increases in your calf size, like I mentioned.


“Sweetness” getting in shape the old fashion way.
So instead of losing muscle while doing cardio, you actually might gain it using these methods. Leaner and bigger at the same time. What more can you ask for?

The sprint workouts should be be performed in the following manner:

– Warm up thoroughly for ten minutes with a variety of low intensity plyos, dynamic flexibility and mobility drills and calisthenics. This could include jumping jacks, flings, prisoner squats, pogo jumps, high knees, butt kicks, pendulum leg swings, gate swings, wide outs and various skipping drills.

– Sprint for anywhere between ten and sixty seconds straight, as hard and as fast as you can. Working up to sixty seconds will take a very long time if you’re new to sprinting so ease into very slowly. A beginner should start with no more than 6-8 sprints on his first day of about 20-30 yards. Gradually increase over time from there.

– Rest for 1-3 minutes or as long as needed to catch your breath, bring your heart rate down a bit, and prevent yourself from throwing up. Over time work to decrease your rest periods. Remember, the goal here is not pure speed development, for that would require longer rest periods. The goal here is to get ripped and build a little bit of muscle in the process.

– Repeat for 10-30 minutes 2-3 days per week.

This type of training will produce the incredible types of ripped, athletic physiques you see on NFL wide receivers and defensive backs.

If you are not accustomed to sprinting regularly you are at risk for a hamstring, hip flexor or knee injury. Hill sprints slow you down, especially if the hill is fairly steep and for that reason are much safer. Sprinting with a sled attached to your waist does the same thing and is very effective and very safe. Pushing the Prowler is an incredibly demanding but result producing workout. If you don’t have a sled or prowler I highly recommend getting one immediately (click HERE to do so). Or at least finding a big hill.

Kettlebell workouts are pretty simple. Just get yourself a high quality ketllebell (you can order one HERE) and work the hell out of it for five to ten minutes straight. You can do swings or snatches in any set and rep scheme you want.

My personal favorite challenge to do with a partner is the Secret Service Snatch test where you set a timer for ten minutes and try to get as many as you can with the 53 pounder. If that’s too heavy for you start with a 26, 35 or 44 and work your way up from there slowly. These workouts can be done right after your strength training workout or on an off day.

If you are worried about any negative impact on your strength training from the kettlebell work it might be a better option for you to use them as a finisher. If fat loss is your main goal you can do them any time; post workout or an off day.

When it comes to jumping rope the possibilities are endless. I like to mix up jumping styles as much as possible and go for one to three minutes straight followed by a break of 30-60 seconds. Three minutes on to one minute off tends to be the option we use most. Again, these can be done on off days or right after your strength training workout. Jumping rope will develop foot speed, calf size and help prevent ankle injuries.

So now you know that there’s nothing to fear. Ditch the regular cardio and start incorporating these high intensity conditioning methods today. You’ll keep all your strength and size and may even build some more in the process. You’ll also improve your health and athleticism.

The only thing you have to lose is bodyfat. So get off the Nordic Track and give these workouts a try today. You won’t be disappointed.

[Durk]

Another thing with the quads before I got into doing cardio for MMA and Boxing I had some pretty big out of proportioned legs. They did shrink a lot with crazy amounts of cardio, but it didnt really seem to affect their strength, or my upper body to much.

I guess the main other reason is that I dont do cardio, and put on a shit ton of mass then find out I have some kind of sport event that someone wants me to take part in a month away, and I have to then do two sessions a day of cardio and interval training just to get in to competitive shape and nix a lot of the weight training to make room. After its over I have lost a lot of hard earned mass.

I think I just want to stay in half assed shape so I dont screw myself over when those times come.

[Durk]

Nice post Prae,

[fmrdh]

Having placed in the top 5 in many distance running events in the past I can without a doubt say that it is detrimental to muscle gains and retention, especially in the legs. It also contributed to injuries that led to less time or reduced intensity in the gym.

I am at an equal or even better cardiovascular fitness level now without ever doing anything more than a few walks a week with my fiance and regular intense weight training.

If you are looking to grow or maintain what muscle you have now maybe try taking your dog for a daily walk. If you are eating a good diet, you won't need cardio to keep the fat off anyway.

[Praetorian]

Besides the cardiovascular benefit I cannot ethically recommend running to anyone for whatever reason. There are so many negative issues associated with it and to be quite honest it is not very efficient at cardio...sprinting or sled work will reap all the benefits and more without all the negative issues.
If your goal is to lose muscle , have joint and back issues then get runnin!
P

[Durk]

I actually like sprinting. how many times week can I do sprints preferably 200 meter without overdoing it?

As for cardio I think I will just try 20min a day of a brisk walk on an incline.

[Durk]

your article says 2 or 3. I will try 2 and see how it goes.

[Praetorian]

Here is some more good info!
P

How to Burn Fat Without Losing Muscle

43 COMMENTS




To burn fat without losing muscle there are two options when it comes to cardio and they’re at extreme opposite ends of the spectrum.

You can either do very high intensity cardio (sprint).

Or you can very low intensity cardio (walk).

It’s the midrange stuff that presents a problem for most people.

When you hop on a machine and go at it with moderate-high intensity for 30-40 minutes you will get all of the negative effects associated with cardio (increased cortisol, muscle loss, overuse injuries, decreased power output- meaning you’ll be less explosive, etc.).

Why I Hate “Interval Training”

Many people know that traditional cardio sucks so they recommend intervals.

I personally hate intervals.

On a bike, stair climber, ski machine thingy and whatever else they stock Bally’s and Gold’s with these days…

Especially the rowing machine. Thirty minutes of repeated spinal flexion sounds fun but I think I’ll pass.

According to typical interval training prescriptions you’re supposed to push as hard as you can for 30 seconds followed by a lower intensity period of 90 seconds, or something along those lines.

No matter what anyone says that will also sap your power production because the lactic acid buildup is massive.

Lactic acid is the arch enemy of fast twitch muscle fibers.

Sprint to Lose Fat & Keep Your Muscle

A better option for intervals would be to rage against the machines and get outside and sprint.

But who do you know personally that can sprint for thirty seconds straight? That would be over 200 yards! Talk about an injury waiting to happen.

Yet that’s what interval training enthusiasts regularly advise their normal 40 year old office worker client to do.

To sprint for 30 seconds, followed by a 90 second rest period, over and over for 10-20 minutes straight is nearly impossible for most non-Olympians. And risky as hell.

If you want to sprint like a sprinter.

Not a nitwit.

Start Slowly

Start with short distances and slowly work your way up over time. Take adequate rest periods and slowly decrease them as you get in better shape.

If you’re an average dude it will take you in the neighborhood of 6-7 seconds to run a 40 yard sprint. And that would be a very far distance for your first time sprinting.

I’d recommend sticking with 20’s your first few weeks.

So instead of the silly recommendation of sprinting for 30 seconds straight I advise you to sprint for two or three seconds straight.

HUGE difference.

It’s funny that intelligent strength coaches who work with high level football players rarely let their athletes sprint at balls out intensity, 40 yards or more during the off season (because the risk of injury is too high), yet fitness trainers recommend that the average lay person head right out to the track and start running 100’s from day one.

People have got to be more responsible than that. It’ll take months to work up to that distance.

Assuming you are sprinting proper distances and taking care to be safe the next question is how long should you rest?

The truthful, nonspecific answer is… as long as you need to.

Keep track of it and try to improve over time. Everyone’s different.

That’s why when people ask me about specific guidelines for hill sprints I tell them I don’t know. I don’t know what kind of shape you are in and what hills you have available to you. Because you’re really limited by the hills you have.

If I told you that you should be sprinting for 15 seconds yet you could make it up the only hill in your neighborhood in eight seconds would you not sprint up the hill?

Don’t Over-Complicate It

You can’t always be a slave to exact prescriptions; sometimes you need to just man up and do work… son.

Your sets, reps, intervals, whatever, are based on your hill and your fitness level.

Now, eventually you may work your way up to being able to sprint your hill for 30 seconds, followed by a 90 second break and repeat that for 20 minutes straight.

So I guess you could say you’re doing intervals at that point. But who cares?

I call them hill sprints. Like Walter Payton did. If you’re sprinting on a football field or a track just say you’re sprinting.

Don’t actually say to anyone that you’re “doing intervals.” That’s so 2004 and so not cool.

If you had absolutely no other option, for whatever reason, than to do intervals on a bike I’d keep the sprints very short and the rest periods as long as necessary, removing almost all tension from the bike while cruising.

You really want to avoid that extreme lactic acid buildup if you want to maintain your power.

A Better Way to Do Interval Training

The best way to come close to traditional interval prescriptions is achieved by performing a variety of exercises such as swings, burpees, med ball slams, battling ropes, mountain climbers, etc. in a circuit.

Mixing it up prevents the massive accumulation of lactic acid in any one area and is far more beneficial than be locked into the versa climber for twenty minutes.

For athletic purposes I prefer to keep the intervals or work times/set duration lower than 30 seconds. Ten to twenty seconds would be a better idea for power athletes.

This type of “interval training” is often associated with the training of combat athletes.

Low Intensity Cardio

As far as the low intensity stuff goes you can walk with a sled, a light weighted vest, walk up hill, walk through the woods or trails or just walk the streets like Omar from The Wire.

Be sure to whistle The Farmer and the Dell to let the suckas know you’re coming.

The best time to do it is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

Try to keep your heart rate at around 65% of max for 30 minutes.

The nice thing about this is there is no negative effect at all. No cortisol, no muscle loss, nothing. And you start your day with some nice fresh air which is great for your health and your mind.

This should be done three times per week, minimum. This will help keep you lean while you’re in the process of trying to gain size and will also help you recover more efficiently.

The old days of bulking and cutting are dead.

A smarter approach is to include some high and low intensity cardio methods year round, skip the traditional cardio machines and never let yourself become an out of shape fat ass.

[TT Eric]

33834

Eric

[Skailes]

As I truly hate cardio I can say that HIIT is at least somewhat more interesting to do and you can make it more challenging. When I did strongman competitions there was always some type of sprint/sled/pulling or pushing type of events and they were tough but I found that training for them never once hindered my strength or muscle mass but I did get leaner, and the same applies to BBing preparation if I do need to do cardio then It's some form of HIIT and I've always found it so effective that I never needed much to get my BF lowered.

[Durk]

so today I did a power walk on an incline for about 25 minutes including warm up and cool down, and I kept my heart rate at about 60% no higher. The incline gave my calves a good pump.

Twice a week I will do high intensity interval training instead, while lifting 4x a week.

[natenator]

I must be the odd one out who actually enjoys doing cardio. Ok, enjoys may be a strong word but I certainly have no problems doing it.

[Durk]

I find it depends. If I am in top shape I feel great doing cardio. If I am not then it really sucks. The thing that I like about it is that intense runners high I get lol. I dont really notice it with lower intensity stuff, but I will still get it with sprinting.

The main thing is when I dont do any I am sick all the time, depressed, and just feel shitty. The health bennifits I get are worth it.

[TT Eric]

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[Skailes]

lol I actually have a series of bodyweight excercises that I do 1 min on, and 1 off for six sets. It simulates doing 200 meter sprints. I do it once or twice a week.Also known as metabolic training and is effective for fat loss. This form of training also appears to be the next "big thing", but in reality use old timers had to do this kind of training when we were in gym class many years ago.....

[cog]

As I truly hate cardio I can say that HIIT is at least somewhat more interesting to do and you can make it more challenging. When I did strongman competitions there was always some type of sprint/sled/pulling or pushing type of events and they were tough but I found that training for them never once hindered my strength or muscle mass but I did get leaner, and the same applies to BBing preparation if I do need to do cardio then It's some form of HIIT and I've always found it so effective that I never needed much to get my BF lowered.

Sled pulling or pushing is great,love the effect on my hams.Pounding the pavement jogging I have found to be the most detrimental movement possible for my quads,I feel this must be from repetitive,low intensity,limited rom.....