So You Wanna Be Huge...

[The Terminator]

Well worth a read, especially for those considering their first cycle.


Reference: Originated from by Phreezer

Here’s some info for guys who want to gain 20-25lbs on a cycle:

Everyone wants to know how to gain high poundages on a cycle. We’ve all got a “friend” in a gym somewhere that gained 25lbs on his last cycle and we want to do the same. We ask ourselves…What is his secret? Is the juice he’s taking that good? Is it a good diet in conjunction with the test.. is that what is responsible? Well, here’s the answer.. NO, his particular anabolic compound of choice be it Sustanon, Winstrol, Dbol, Tren, etc… isn’t so great that whoever takes one of those compounds will grow.. nor is his diet so “on” that he will gain more than us.

Here’s the truth.. and some of you won’t like it.. Some of you may even get pissed off.. The reason these guys grow so much on their cycles is because they shouldn’t even be using steroids to begin with… And that’s the truth… That may sound a bit confusing.. yes? Well allow me to elaborate…

You take a 20 yr old male. He has been lifting on and off for six months or so… He’s about 6 foot tall maybe a little shorter.. 5’10” or so.. He weighs about 165lbs.. He’s got a little bit of definition.. nothing big.. when his shirt is off people can tell he’s been working out.. He decides one day that he wants to take steroids, He sees the really big guys in the gym and he wants to be like them right now.. he doesn’t want to wait any longer.. in his mind six months has been long enough.. So he gets on the internet.. he finds a message board similar to this one.. he reads a little .. finds a hook up.. and decides to run 250mg of test and 300mg of deca for two months and ends up weighing around 185 or 190.. All of his friends are amazed.. he’s amazed He’s put on some size.. he looks like a weight lifter.. he doesn’t look like someone who could compete.. but he looks like he’s finally arrived on the Body building scene… His closest friends are so impressed that they want to run the exact same cycle .. He tells them exactly what he did.. how he ate..etc… Now, a few months go by.. all of a sudden the kid is back to around 165 maybe 170.. He thinks.. “Oh man.. I’ve got to get back on cycle.. I need those drugs to be big.. if I don’t.. I just can’t grow… Steroids require that I stay on all the time to maintain the kind of size that I want”… I guess that’s what he has to do; huh; stay on all the time?

Now, here’s the reason he gained 25lbs on his cycle.. He was so far from his genetic potential that once the anabolic compounds were introduced into his system he grew like a weed.. His body didn’t need to struggle to put on that mass, because it was quite capable of adding that much mass naturally.. The steroids just sped it up..

it is for lack of a better or more accurate word.. a short cut to get to where he could have gotten natural anyway. His inevitable weight loss after coming off his "super" cycle wasn’t from the lack of steroids.. it was from a lack of a proper foundation.. a Lack of proper training skills, and a lack of muscular maturation…

Here’s the deal.. guys who need steroids aren’t the guys who are growing 25+lbs per cycle.. they are gaining 10lbs and hopefully keeping 5-8.. They are struggling to even do that.. I’ll tell you from personal experience.. I am 30 yrs old 6’2” .. I am 284lbs currently.. I am 17% BF (I’m a powerlifter/strongman.. so I keep a little extra fat on me)…If I wanted to keep the same body fat % I have now and weigh 300lbs.. I would have to run a very long cycle..or in all honesty it will take me two full cycles to get to 3 bills..

An average cycle for me is about 750mg Test, 450mg Deca, 300mg EQ and Some Dbol in the front and at the end… Those are some fairly heavy dosages...Why don’t I gain 25lbs per cycle?

Because No matter how much gear I take.. no matter how much I eat.. my body is so far beyond it’s genetic potential that I simply can’t add that kind of radical mass anymore..

My body does a fairly good job of maintaining mass when I’m not on cycle.. but I do drop weight regardless.. and in truth, the only reason my body maintains it’s size as well as it does is because of Muscle maturation.. My body is used to carrying around that muscle.. it’s not a shock to my body to carry it around.. And I built a solid mass foundation naturally years ago.. I reached my genetic potential before I started using juice.. Lifting was a habbit and a lifestyle for me because I played football from Junior high through College.

I’ve worked out in gyms all over the country.. and I have been doing so for the better part of a decade.. and I'll tell you, I have seen a lot of little guys blow up for a couple of months from a cycle only to deflate a couple of months later..It's the truth.. Muscle Maturation plays a huge key in keeping mass... that and proper training skills.. (and no hitting bench 3 days a week and squating once every few months doesn't count)

So in truth, when you hear about some guy who gained 25-30lbs off of a cycle.. Please keep in mind that he is probably some impatient tiny punk that could have easily gained the same amount of muscle had he just been a little more patient.. If he had just been focused on learning how to train.. focused on how to eat…

This is a lifestyle.. there are no short cuts if you want to be the real deal.... There will never be a fly by nighter even win the smallest amateur comp in booney fu*king Iowa if he hasn't been serious for years...

It's important that you guys learn that Juice may seem like the best short cut in the beginning... but whenever you add that much mass that quickly from gear.. Your body isn’t goint to be ready for it.. it will literally fight you to keep it.. the sudden size and strength will stress the ligaments, tendons, bones and central nervous system and Your body will do everything that it can to shed those rapid muscle gains.. Decent muscle mass is only kept through time and hard work (cough.. cough.. it's a cliche.. but it's still true).. and it's important that your gains aren't so fast that the body can't adjust healthfuly to it’s new weight gain..

I've been on the boards for years.. and I'll tell you, 80% of the people on these boards are wannabes and posers.. they are guys who won’t even be working out six months from now.. They are impatient and are looking for the shortcut.. they may even get a few short term results.. but in the long run they will come out behind everyone else..(and when I say long run.. i mean less than a year or two)

These kind of guys will never be anything more than a hobbyist.. and in truth...that is probably the case in every other aspect of their lives as well, not just weight lifting..

So in the end my advice is this.. if you are wanting to add some mass..and you’re stuck.. learn a different training method.. change your diet.. and if you’re a good size.. (that’s when everyone who is in the room with you knows you’re a weight lifter.. if you walk in a room, and everyone in there doesn’t know that you lift… you are not ready for steroids) then come and sit down.. and we’ll talk about steroids.. until then… Learn how to train.. learn how to eat.. and spend some time in the gym.. you’ll be so much better off in the end…

Reference: Originated from by Phreezer


Matt

[SteveMan]

good post but I have some thoughts on all that. For the sake of the discussion I will make up some guy named Joe.

Joe, a 22 year old college student has been working out steady for 3 years and he feels he has a solid routine and fairly good diet. Despite all this when Joe walks into a room no one identifies him as someone who works out. Frustration sets in and Joe decides to run his first cycle, a basic cycle. Out of great excitement of the sudden gains he has made in the first 4 weeks Joe' interest in bodybuilding increases and he starts to research diets and routines into great detail. He recognizes where he was failing and tweaks his regiment accordingly. By the time Joe has finishes his cycle he has dialed into his diet and weight routine and feels 100% confident that when he lifts a weight results will occur. Joe runs a proper PCT and retains 12 of the 20 lbs gained, a great cycle. Although the cycle only lasted 12 weeks, the motivation it caused him to get educated will last a life time.

It is hard to be passionate about body building if you look like a marathon runner, sometimes people just need some results to get motivated to learn, to get out the rut they are in.

[The Terminator]

True. But, should Joe be running marathons before he can walk? ;)

Everyone needs to learn. There is a large progression in learning, especially in bodybuilding. There's so much that can be done and altered with diet and training methods that AAS is not the answer to. In fact, AAS would set a person back who doesn't know proper diet and training in some cases.

But for those who are dedicated, and are very strict and regimented, the results can be staggering.

Matt

[Kilburn]

meh, fuk that, natural training is gay. i used to work my ass off but i'd never get passed 170. actually i got up to 175 by eatting a TONE, yet it was mostly fat. i wish i started juicing at 19 instead of 22.

natural training=waste of time and energy.

[SteveMan]

meh, fuk that, natural training is gay. i used to work my ass off but i'd never get passed 170. actually i got up to 175 by eatting a TONE, yet it was mostly fat. i wish i started juicing at 19 instead of 22.

natural training=waste of time and energy.

lol I don't think I will dignify that response by arguing with you.

[The Terminator]

lol I don't think I will dignify that response by arguing with you.

I'm going to have to agree. If one cannot get to 200 at a decent body fat naturally, the assumption can be made that one is not very knowledgeable on diet and nutrition, as well as training.

If you can't grow without steroids, it's almost a guarantee that you can't grow with.

Matt

PS - That, or you're going to be cycling constantly as you'll be blowing up on cycle, and deflating off.

[St]

meh, fuk that, natural training is gay. i used to work my ass off but i'd never get passed 170. actually i got up to 175 by eatting a TONE, yet it was mostly fat. i wish i started juicing at 19 instead of 22.

natural training=waste of time and energy.


That is how i feel about it as well.

[Dk]

anyone else notice how the deca dose was at 300 and test was at 250?

haha, rule of thumb=keep test over deca to keep penis over balls :)

[The Terminator]

anyone else notice how the deca dose was at 300 and test was at 250?

haha, rule of thumb=keep test over deca to keep penis over balls :)

LOL! :D

Matt

[Kilburn]

I'm going to have to agree. If one cannot get to 200 at a decent body fat naturally, the assumption can be made that one is not very knowledgeable on diet and nutrition, as well as training.

If you can't grow without steroids, it's almost a guarantee that you can't grow with.

Matt

PS - That, or you're going to be cycling constantly as you'll be blowing up on cycle, and deflating off. what a moronic statement. 200 pounds at 5'10 lean is fuking huge by normal standards. not many people have the genetics to do that. i talk to lots of dudes at my gym, alot are around 160-170 and lean but not very big, others are 210+ but very fat. it is VERY rare that you see a guy that is big and lean, the ones that achieve it either have a genetic gift or they're on juice.

also, you shouldn't make an assumption about anyone. not everyone has your genetics. some people are ectomorphs, low test levels, very fast metabolisim, etc. in highschool i ate, pizza and burgers washed down wtih slurpees all day and never gained a fuking pound. i was 130 pounds.

[The Terminator]

what a moronic statement. 200 pounds at 5'10 lean is fuking huge by normal standards. not many people have the genetics to do that. i talk to lots of dudes at my gym, alot are around 160-170 and lean but not very big, others are 210+ but very fat. it is VERY rare that you see a guy that is big and lean, the ones that achieve it either have a genetic gift or they're on juice.

also, you shouldn't make an assumption about anyone. not everyone has your genetics. some people are ectomorphs, low test levels, very fast metabolisim, etc. in highschool i ate, pizza and burgers washed down wtih slurpees all day and never gained a fuking pound. i was 130 pounds.

I love you too. :)

Let's see, I'm guessing you were fairly active? Did you ever track the amount of food that you inhaled when you were so thin? Most skinny people think they're eating a lot more than they really are, and that's a fact. I'm not new to the internet.

If you would be so kind as to explain to me how one who is taking in say 5000 calories a day at 170lbs and cannot gain any more muscle suddenly begins and AAS regimen, does not up food intake, and gains 20 to 30 lbs of muscle?

Most so called "hard gainers" become more hungry on AAS because of increased protein synthesis, and gain weight because of this. But, if one is not able to gain at the same calories on cycle as they are off cycle, something does not add up. The laws of physiques do not magically bend for Ecto's. Calories in must be greater than calories out to gain.

Matt

[Kilburn]

I love you too. :)

Let's see, I'm guessing you were fairly active? Did you ever track the amount of food that you inhaled when you were so thin? Most skinny people think they're eating a lot more than they really are, and that's a fact. I'm not new to the internet.

If you would be so kind as to explain to me how one who is taking in say 5000 calories a day at 170lbs and cannot gain any more muscle suddenly begins and AAS regimen, does not up food intake, and gains 20 to 30 lbs of muscle?

Most so called "hard gainers" become more hungry on AAS because of increased protein synthesis, and gain weight because of this. But, if one is not able to gain at the same calories on cycle as they are off cycle,something does not add up. The laws of physiques do not magically bend for Ecto's. Calories in must be greater than calories out to gain.

Matt

my diet was fuking awful in highschool. i would usually skip breakfast. lunch was mcdonalds, 2 bigmacs and prob some of those apple pies too. then a slurpee. dinner was usually a big new yorker pizza from pizza hut. i dunno how much that is but it's got to be atleast 3000+ calories. a dude w/o my metabolisim would still baloon up on that for sure.

uhhh, well i dunno if you heard or not but STEROIDS HELP BUILD MUSCLE. i made good progress naturally considering how small i used to be. but around 170 seemed to be my cieling. it's like you reach a point where you've hit your genetic potential and after that the gains just drop right off. with gear that cieling point shoots up, on gear it seems to be around 210 pounds for me.

and yes my diet is in check. i have 3 shakes and 3 whole meals everday. i might need to cut back because i am gaining some fat these days.

[The Terminator]

I'm guessing you were fairly active?

Most skinny people think they're eating a lot more than they really are, and that's a fact.

If you would be so kind as to explain to me how one who is taking in say 5000 calories a day at 170lbs and cannot gain any more muscle suddenly begins and AAS regimen, does not up food intake, and gains 20 to 30 lbs of muscle?

Most so called "hard gainers" become more hungry on AAS because of increased protein synthesis, and gain weight because of this. But, if one is not able to gain at the same calories on cycle as they are off cycle, something does not add up. The laws of physiques do not magically bend for Ecto's. Calories in must be greater than calories out to gain.

Matt


my diet was fuking awful in highschool. i would usually skip breakfast. lunch was mcdonalds, 2 bigmacs and prob some of those apple pies too. then a slurpee. dinner was usually a big new yorker pizza from pizza hut. i dunno how much that is but it's got to be atleast 3000+ calories. a dude w/o my metabolisim would still baloon up on that for sure.

3000 calories will not make someone "baloon" up to quote you. In fact, for an active (working out 5 days a week with no other sports activities) 170lb person in the range of 10% body fat 3000 calories is essentially maintenance.


uhhh, well i dunno if you heard or not but STEROIDS HELP BUILD MUSCLE. i made good progress naturally considering how small i used to be. but around 170 seemed to be my cieling. it's like you reach a point where you've hit your genetic potential and after that the gains just drop right off. with gear that cieling point shoots up, on gear it seems to be around 210 pounds for me.

Thanks for that, you're quite adept at debating. How about addressing the questions I asked you? Steroids help build muscle, but they do not magically bend the laws of physics. 170 was your ceiling because you were unable to eat more.


and yes my diet is in check. i have 3 shakes and 3 whole meals everday. i might need to cut back because i am gaining some fat these days.

3 Shakes huh? Why not eat some more whole foods, shakes are called supplements for a reason. What's your current weight and lean body mass? What kind of calories are you taking in now? What macro's? How many times a week do you lift? How intensely?

Drop the pissing match and just answer the questions from my previous post, and this one. I'm not here to quibble with people who think they are the epitome of bodybuilding, I'm here to help and learn. So, from your position of knowing all these magical things that I apparently don't in the way of how you're able to bend the laws of physics with eating the same amount of food and only gain weight on steroids, you have the ability to teach me something. Keep that in mind, as my mind is open if you wish to be intelligent enough to drop the pissing match and teach me what I apparently don't know.

Matt

[Kilburn]

3000 calories will not make someone "baloon" up to quote you. In fact, for an active (working out 5 days a week with no other sports activities) 170lb person in the range of 10% body fat 3000 calories is essentially maintenance.



Thanks for that, you're quite adept at debating. How about addressing the questions I asked you? Steroids help build muscle, but they do not magically bend the laws of physics. 170 was your ceiling because you were unable to eat more.



3 Shakes huh? Why not eat some more whole foods, shakes are called supplements for a reason. What's your current weight and lean body mass? What kind of calories are you taking in now? What macro's? How many times a week do you lift? How intensely?

Drop the pissing match and just answer the questions from my previous post, and this one. I'm not here to quibble with people who think they are the epitome of bodybuilding, I'm here to help and learn. So, from your position of knowing all these magical things that I apparently don't in the way of how you're able to bend the laws of physics with eating the same amount of food and only gain weight on steroids, you have the ability to teach me something. Keep that in mind, as my mind is open if you wish to be intelligent enough to drop the pissing match and teach me what I apparently don't know.

Matt

i didn't even train when i used to eat like that. i was 130-135 pounds. skrawny as hell. you underestimate some people's metabolisim.

steroids are given to aids patience to prevent muscle wasting. you could probably gain weight on them eatting only 2000 calories a day.

my shakes are 1 scoop protien, 500ml whole milk, and around 1 cup large flake oats (powdered in coffee grinder). that is perfect for building muscle, what's wrong with shakes?

5'11 210 pounds. lean body mass? don't know. macros? don't know, don't care. i have 3 of those shakes and 3 whole meals. meals are usually like this:

meal 1: 5 eggs +cheese omlette 500ml whole milk

meal 2: 1 cup rice (uncooked), 2 chicken breasts, lots of BBQ sauce. 3 pieces of garlic bread, lots of oil, lots of parm cheese.

meal 3: 2-3 homemade burgers cooked on BBQ.

i train everyday, 5 day split arms/chest/legs/shoulder/back. workout usually takes me about 1.5 hour-2 hours. i train very intensely, somedays i get drenched in sweat to the point where it drips off my face.

bench 295-x5
squat (atg) 315-x5
deadlift 405-x5

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4010/22kmq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and like i said, i did gain weight without steroids, around 30 pounds. but it always drops off. same with on cycle, i gain lots at first then it levels out.

[The Terminator]

i didn't even train when i used to eat like that. i was 130-135 pounds. skrawny as hell. you underestimate some people's metabolisim.

Answer the previous questions if you could please regarding if you were active or not when you were 130ish pounds, and how active you were. I think the key lies in the answer.


steroids are given to aids patience to prevent muscle wasting. you could probably gain weight on them eatting only 2000 calories a day.

You're right, it is given to AIDS patients, but as an anti-wasting agent, not a weight gain agent. Go read the studies, Google Scholar again will give you access to these. On 6 month studies involving 200mg Test Cyp every 2 weeks, there was no notable weight gain between the Test Cyp group and the placebo group.


my shakes are 1 scoop protien, 500ml whole milk, and around 1 cup large flake oats (powdered in coffee grinder). that is perfect for building muscle, what's wrong with shakes?

Not whole foods, meaning your body digests it faster, and therefore it spends less time in your body. This likely leads to less nutrient absorption, meaning less gains.


5'11 210 pounds. lean body mass? don't know. macros? don't know, don't care. i have 3 of those shakes and 3 whole meals. meals are usually like this:

meal 1: 5 eggs +cheese omlette 500ml whole milk

meal 2: 1 cup rice (uncooked), 2 chicken breasts, lots of BBQ sauce. 3 pieces of garlic bread, lots of oil, lots of parm cheese.

meal 3: 2-3 homemade burgers cooked on BBQ.

i train everyday, 5 day split arms/chest/legs/shoulder/back. workout usually takes me about 1.5 hour-2 hours. i train very intensely, somedays i get drenched in sweat to the point where it drips off my face.

bench 295-x5
squat (atg) 315-x5
deadlift 405-x5

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4010/22kmq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and like i said, i did gain weight without steroids, around 30 pounds. but it always drops off. same with on cycle, i gain lots at first then it levels out.

More carbs. You're not getting as much carbs through your whole food meals as you could. The reason you might be adding a small amount of fat to your physique could be that you're combining fats and carbs in the same meals. If you were to eat less fats in some of the meals, and eat a lot more carbs, and a bit cleaner, I'm willing to bet you'd see more in the terms of results. Just because you're a "hardgainer" doesn't mean you have to be half assed on your diet.

But, because I like to help, I threw all of your food into my calculator and came up with the following:

6809 calories
484g protein
672 carbs
240g fat

If this is true, you eat almost as much as Ronnie or Jay. I'd be asking yourself if you really eat this much, and if you do, what causes you to either not become a big ball of blubber, or a giant hulk of muscle. :)

Matt

[The Terminator]

Cough.

Matt

[juced_porkchop]

anyone else notice how the deca dose was at 300 and test was at 250?

haha, rule of thumb=keep test over deca to keep penis over balls :)

i like 400-500deca 300mg test. iv run deca alone with no problims.
u shouldent regurgutate crap off net "that80%". every 1 is diff some might need to have test higher. i feel 200mg test is all u need to keep normal well on 400mg deca. thow yes more test more horny but thats go's with out deca.

[tex]

kilburn....There is very little chance that you achieved your natural genetic potential by the age of 21 or 22 with the diet you mentioned. The article that Matt posted is the pretty accurate. Don't bash on it just because you got a hard-on to get big ( which you aren't anyways ) and went the faster way, cheating yourself out of the chance to Really put on size naturally. So listen to what others have to say instead of beaking off about this or that. Maybe you'll learn something and put some decent size on those rickets of yours...

[swole44]

i decided not to do my cycle. im only 20. i wanna be in this game for along time. why not wait five more years

[tex]

^^ smart man.......its a marathon.......

[The Terminator]

Good choice Swole. Your Test is as it's natural peak right now, enjoy it while you can.

Matt (27 years old in 2 weeks, and natty till Feb 3rd this year) ;)

[swole44]

i mean i look good and feel good. i may not be the biggest in the gym but im still bigger than the average person.:D