27yo/145lbs/5'6" - time to bulk

[Wildo]

Hello All,

I just signed up on this site because I feel like there's a lot of experts in nutrition and body building and was hoping to get some extra tips.
I have worked out 1.5 years now. first 1 year was great, leaned up, build muscles, but stayed at around 140lbs and started getting frustrated that i wasnt gaining muscle weight. Went on a bulk diet for 2 months and gained 5lbs (or about 3-4 plus muscle 1 lb of fat). Now i am ready to bulk up again.

Please advise on my CLEAN BULK DIET:

2250 calories : 150p/120c/45f <-- this number doesnt add up to 2250. I am confused how people do these numbers. Example, 4 oz of chicken breast is about 120 calories, 25g of protein. but 25g x 4 = 100 calories. so 20 short...

Anyway back to my diet:

Meal 1:
10oz unsweetened almond milk
1scoop protein powder (25g protein)
1tbs matcha powder
1/2 frozen banana
1/3 cup of quick oats
1/2 fresh avocado

Meal 2:
4oz meat
1/2 cup of cooked quinoa
handful of veggies
13 almonds

Meal 3:
10oz unsweetened almond milk
1scoop protein powder (25g)
1/2 frozen banana
1tbs of natural pb
1/3 cup of quick oats

Meal 4 (pre work out):
4oz meat
1 cup cooked quinoa
handful of veggies

Meal 5 (pwo):
1scoop of protein powder (25g)
water
Green apple

Meal 6:
4oz meat
1/2 cup of cooked basmati rice
handful of veggies
1 rice cake
1.5tbs of natural pb and a squirt of honey
a piece of fruit

Any recommendation on carbs, protein, fat?
Also to note, on non gym days, i will cut out 35g of carbs.

Thanks guys

[Skailes]

There's always going to be fat in even a chicken breast so that's why your numbers don't match as you're only counting the protein. Now speaking of protein you need to increase yours quite a bit if growth is what you're after, so up it to at least 225 grams per day and you could go as high as 300 grams. Your carbs are also a bit low so up the carbs as well to 200-300 grams per day, and see how you do. Lastly don't make your eating plans to complicated as this will make it hard to follow day in and day out.

All in all 2250 cals is far to low for you to make solid gains on so up the protein and carbs as I pointed out and this should bring you up enough to make the gains you seek without gaining to much BF.

[TT Eric]

At first glance, I would say right away not enough protein, try 1.5g or even near 2g per pounds of BW. Especially if you go relatively low carbs, you are going to burn protein as fuel. You can bump your shake to 50g instead of 25g and meat to 7oz instead of 4oz. Also (not everyone agree) I am a believer that we should take carbs PWO, something like 50-75g if you are insulin sensitive, personally I feel replenished.

Eric

[TT Eric]

Oups didn't saw Skailes's reply before I posted mine, but look like we are on the same page.

Eric

[Wildo]

Wow 225g of protein and 200g of carbs.. that's so much food!!!
Look at my photo, im a very small frame, I have a feeling that much food will make me super fat. Literally have a gut hanging out....

But I will monitor my current diet for 2 weeks. If it's good, I'll up it again, and again.. until I reach 225/200

[Wildo]

Hi Eric, 60g of carb PWO. Do you mean the chemcial dextroxe thing. OR are you talking about a cup of oatmeal.
I can't stomach a cup of oatmeal after work out. But i'll have more white rice on my last meal (It is before bed).

[TT Eric]

Hi Eric, 60g of carb PWO. Do you mean the chemcial dextroxe thing. OR are you talking about a cup of oatmeal.
I can't stomach a cup of oatmeal after work out. But i'll have more white rice on my last meal (It is before bed).

Dextrose is not my favorite choice, I prefer waxy maze or maltodextrine and lately I tried brown rice carbs (http://truenutrition.com/p-1048-whole-grain-brown-rice-carbohydrate-1lb.aspx) mixed with malto and I really like it.

If you have some belly fat, you should loose it first before bulking, you'll be able to make cleaner gain after that. Over 10-12% BF, you will tend to gain more fat deposition then muscle.

Look at Dave Palumbo's keto diet, it's here and everywhere on the net, do it till you get lean. Then once lean out, keep protein high and slowly re-introduce carbs up, till you find the 'sweet' spot where you actually make lean gain without fat deposition.

Eric

[steve_d]

Wow 225g of protein and 200g of carbs.. that's so much food!!!
Look at my photo, im a very small frame, I have a feeling that much food will make me super fat. Literally have a gut hanging out....

But I will monitor my current diet for 2 weeks. If it's good, I'll up it again, and again.. until I reach 225/200

It's actually not much food at all. I think the problem is you first need to learn how to make sure you are reading labels properly and knowing exactly what you are eating and what the macro totals are. 225 prrotein for example is as you've pointed out: 225*4 = 900 calories. Then 800 calories from carbs. You're only at 1700. Add in for example 50 fat and you are still at 2100 calories, which is less than what you mentioned you were eating!

as you mentioned, the macros you pointed out didnt add up: 150p/120c/45f is 1485 calories. I would really doubt you could create a diet this low in calories and feel like you are actually getting enough food. You might last a day or 2 and then start feeling like you were just recruited for survivor island. A guy your size should be able to eat at least 2500 calories if working out hard and not add 1 pound of fat over the long term. You should (as others pointed out) aim for lots of protein, a decent amount of carbs, and fat.

300p/200c/70f give or take should be a good start.

[Wildo]

Hi Mr. Steve D.

Please Answer this.

1 tbs of Peanut butter:
back of label reads: TOTAL 100 calories
Total Fat: 8g (72 calories).
-28calorie difference

4oz chicken breast:
label reads: 120 calories
total protein: 25g (100 calories)
-20 calorie difference

1cup of cooked quinoa:
label reads: 170 calories
total carbs: 31g (124 calories)
-46 calorie difference

So the reason why i overshoot my calories is because I add everything from total content calories and not from total protein/carbs/fat. Should I only count from p/c/f, or keep counting total calories?
I also count my veggie/fruit calories in my total... should I not add those?

[steve_d]

peanut butter also contains carbs and protein... add those up and you'll get 100. chicken also has carbs and fat, add those and you should get the 120.
quinoa also has protein and fat, add those and you get 170 calories.

You should add all of them in to get your total. for example, where would you put greek yogurt in? It has almost an even amount of carbs and protein, so you can't just count it as a protein or carb source. It's both.

Same with any of your protein powders, etc. Yes, they are mostly protein, but there are carbs and fat in there as well.

You will never get an accurate representation of your total P/C/F ratio if you only add up the 'main source' in it.

[Skailes]

You're asking some great questions Wildo and this is the only way to learn when you first start out......just remember the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.

[Wildo]

Update:

Well I bumped my diet +25p +30c +8f
I can feel the extra carbs providing more energy than before. Especially at the 40min mark in my work outs. Muscle feels full of energy, and not aching on the last reps.

Body starting to plump up. lost 6 pack, 4 pack visible. will keep it between 2-4 pack.

[TT Eric]

Sorry but you missed an important point, it should be 40-50p, not 25p. And if you are gaining fat, I would cut the carbs.

And 25p + 30c + 8f X6 = 1752 cal per day, how can you plump up with that ??

Are you calculating everything ? Most people don't realize that they are getting lots of cal via things they don't calculate like condiments (ketchup, mayo, relish...).

Eric

[Wildo]

Hi Eric,

Like I said, I calculate each food item as ONE micro nutrient.
I.E. 1/3 cup oatmeal. I only calculate the Carbs out of that. (0p/20c/0f) I don't count protein or fats from it........... but in reality its (5p/20c/2f).
I.E. 1tbs nutty pb. (0p/0c/8f) but in reality its (3p/3c/8f).

This is basically my original question. Do you guys count based on TOTAL nutritional value, OR its primary nutritional value.

IF its the total nutritonal value then again im around 2400 calories a day.
IF its the primary nutritional value then itll be 1700 calories a day.

[Frostbite]

You need to count everything , Protein , Carbs , Fats from all foods. Count your total calories as well. All are important. The more info you keep track of the better.

[TT Eric]

Yes I/we calculate everything!

Eric

[Wildo]

Okay I'm on track again thx.
Steve already told me on his earlier post, but I just wanted confirmation from more people..

i'll work out my macros and post it here in a couple of days.

[steve_d]

Yes, good to get on track - its important to know exactly what you're eating and not just 'guessing'.

Treating as a main 'nutrient macro' will obviously bias towards any food item that is not strictly 100% carbs, protein, or fat... Sure, if all you ate was tuna, licorice, and crisco, you'd probably be pretty bang on. But the reality is most foods have a good amount of all macros. Perhaps you were just making things more complicated than they should have been. On the other hand, if you're bulking and not concerned about extra fat gains, then not counting the protein in peanut butter and making sure you get x amount from things like chicken, eggs, etc, is going to at least make sure you get 'at least' a certain amount. The rest being just excess. Obviously better to be as exact as possible though. You're body doesn't just ignore carbs from peanut butter, so why would you!

[Wildo]

Hello again!

Okay so i tallied up my Macros.
2350calories
200p/240c/65f

*Included carbs from fruits. about 90 carbs total. Should i not include these?
*NOT include carbs from veggies

Thanks

[TT Eric]

Yes everything, but fibers doesn't count as carbs.

Eric

[Skailes]

Hello again!

Okay so i tallied up my Macros.
2350calories
200p/240c/65f

*Included carbs from fruits. about 90 carbs total. Should i not include these?
*NOT include carbs from veggies

ThanksFruit of course you would count these carbs and cals as I've known more than one guy who got very fat eating bananas as he felt that as this was a fruit he was safe.....WRONG! And damn did he gain some serious BF......Really other than green leafy veggies as not being a real issue when it comes to cals all other foods must be counted in total so pro, carb, fat.

[Wildo]

Perfect........ i'll stick with this diet for for a month or so and see how it goes.
thanks all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!
:D

[Wildo]

Hi Guys,
Back again. So this diet worked so-so for me. I believe my calories was still a little on the low side, but i did gain at least 1 lb. I dont know how much, but i do appear thicker than i use to be.
Anyway my question is, time to cut weight again.
So far my macros is around 215p/215c/70f. planning to cut to 215p/150c/60f for the next 4 weeks (before heading to mexico). Is this the correct way to cut fat for a month or so?

[IronRobi]

I may be coming late to this one, but I feel this needs to be said. What I notice skimming through this whole thread is that you had an IFBB PRO, a national level competitor, and at least 1 other competitor all giving you roughly the same advice. You needed more cals and roughly 300p/200c/70f. You chose to continue your own way and in the end you weren't overly pleased with the results. And for that reason I feel if I answer your cutting question, and I am by no means an IFBB pro or national competitor, it won't make a difference because you will likely choose to do it your way anyways. But sometimes that's what people need to learn.

If I were in your position (and I once was, I started this journey at 128lbs) and I posed a similar question and a man with his IFBB Pro card says to me "Robi, you sit there and you eat and you don't stop until you have 300g of protein" I reply with "yes sir, whatever you say sir, right away sir" and sit my ass down and eat whatever he tells me to eat and I don't ask any questions because my mouth is too full with food.

At this point I would start sucking up to those that offered you help on bulking and follow the advice they give you on cutting to a T and I can guarantee you will get the results you are looking for. They both know more than I do and their input would be the best help you can get IF you chose to listen. All it takes is a look at their avatar pictures to know they know what they're talking about.

[Stoneco|d]

I may be coming late to this one, but I feel this needs to be said. What I notice skimming through this whole thread is that you had an IFBB PRO, a national level competitor, and at least 1 other competitor all giving you roughly the same advice. You needed more cals and roughly 300p/200c/70f. You chose to continue your own way and in the end you weren't overly pleased with the results. And for that reason I feel if I answer your cutting question, and I am by no means an IFBB pro or national competitor, it won't make a difference because you will likely choose to do it your way anyways. But sometimes that's what people need to learn.

If I were in your position (and I once was, I started this journey at 128lbs) and I posed a similar question and a man with his IFBB Pro card says to me "Robi, you sit there and you eat and you don't stop until you have 300g of protein" I reply with "yes sir, whatever you say sir, right away sir" and sit my ass down and eat whatever he tells me to eat and I don't ask any questions because my mouth is too full with food.

At this point I would start sucking up to those that offered you help on bulking and follow the advice they give you on cutting to a T and I can guarantee you will get the results you are looking for. They both know more than I do and their input would be the best help you can get IF you chose to listen. All it takes is a look at their avatar pictures to know they know what they're talking about.

Ya I know lol. It's like he's grabbing ideas from people then goes back to what he wanted to do initially.

[Wildo]

Ive been given the advice to work my way up to 300P. Which I will be doing after I return from Mexico in the New Year.

[St]

Ive been given the advice to work my way up to 300P. Which I will be doing after I return from Mexico in the New Year.

You need to eat plain and simple,up your protein.
Wildo with all the advice people have giving you i would jump on it, if you don't listen people won't add to your thread.

[Sean Summers]

You need to eat more. I would go with 20 x your body weight. So for you that would be 2900-ish. Remove some of the fruit. Eat more protein. Gaining some weight and then immediately going into a cutting phase will result in a net gain of zero. What I mean by this is that once you gain weight you need to hold it. If you don't you will definitely lose it - I guarantee it.
So to review - eat more. If you are gaining or aren't gaining enough you aren't eating enough. When you gain 5lbs then HOLD it for 6-8 months. If you wish to cut then go ahead but gaining 1lbs and then next week dieting is destroying any chance of solidifying the gains you just made.

[Wildo]

Hello guys,

I got back from vacation not long ago. I have taken everyones advice and have upped my food intake.
I finally hit 150 on the scale and it's been about a month since I started eating more... sure, it's some fat, or water, or food, but I finally hit 150 on the scale and I am happy.

I haven't accurately calculated, but I reckon 270P/250C/75F.



Meal 1:
1/2 avocado
1/3 cup oat
25g whey protein

Meal 2:
5.5oz of meat
1/2 baked potato
veggies
almonds

Meal 3:
natty PB
2/3 cup of oats
25g of whey

Meal 4 (prework out):
5.5z of meat
1 cup cooked of quinoa
veggies

Meal 6 POST-work out:
2 scoops (50g total) of whey

Meal 7:
5.5oz of meat
1 baked potato
veggies
Natty PB on a rice cracker

I also changed the way I work out. I have dropped 25-40% of the plates..... and in return worked on more sets, slower reps, and full extension and contraction every rep.

What's my next step?

[Wildo]

Hi Guys,

I've made some changes to my diet in the last couple of months and have seen some improvements.
I am now at a 160lb range and have settled here for a bit. I know I have to continue with more calories but need help in filling in the gaps.
So far I just did a calculation and I am 3000 calories (240p/330c/80f):

Meal 1 break fast protein shake @ 8:30am:
1 scoop whey isolate
1/3 cups of oats
1/2 avocado
1/2 banana
1 cup of almond milk

Meal 2 pre work out meal @ 11:00am:
150g of chicken breast
200g of sweet potato
veggies

WORK OUT 12-1:15

Meal 3 post work out shake @ 1:30pm:
2 scoops of whey iso
1/2 cup of blueberries

Meal 4 afternoon meal @ 3:00pm:
150g of grass fed ground beef or stew meat
1 cup of cooked white rice
veggies

Meal 5 dinner meal @ 6:00pm:
150g of chicken breast
1 cup of cooked white rice
veggies

Meal 6 before bed meal @ 9:00pm:
150g of grass fed beef OR fish (if I have any)
1 cup of cooked white rice
veggies

Meal 7 dessert snack before bed meal @ 10:00pm:
2 slices of whole wheat bread
2 tbs of natty pb
1 tbs of jam
an orange or apple

So, this is quite a bit to eat, but I know I need more food to continue growing.
Should I eat more rice? more potato? more meat? more protein shakes?
Is there anything I should stop eating?

Any comments or tips would be appreciative.

[scottlove]

Personally, I think you may be eating too clean to really pack on some weight. It may take a long time to get to the size you want to be, granted, but you will always look in shape and lean. I guess it all depends on what's more important to you.

[Praetorian]

Size takes time and consistency. You need to eat more ie more fat and protein. 75g fat per day WTF! You also need to revise your training...you should be training for power and strength...never mind isolating bullshit. Get your big three lifts up, eat more, sleep well, and limit outside activity.

P

[Wildo]

Thank you everyone, for the comments.

I took each piece of advice and criticism carefully and managed to bump my weight from 145lbs to 165lbs in 7 months of consistent eating and training.
Started dieting a 1.5 months ago and now I am down to 155lbs.

If anyone wants to comment or criticize my new diet plan, feel free:
Roughly 240p/140c/60f = 2060 calories

Meal 1
2 scoops whey
1/2 avocado

Meal 2
150g of chicken
1 cup of cook rice
veggies

Train

Meal 3
2 scoops of whey

Meal 4
150g of beef
1 cup of cook rice
veggies

Meal 5
150g of tilapia/shrimp (once a week salmon)
veggies

Meal 6
150g of chicken or beef
veggies
1 tbs of natty pb
1 serving of fruit

We recently adopted a new puppy so I've been doing a min of 20 min of brisk walk with her either in the morning or after work...sometimes twice.

I don't know if I want to drop carbs completely yet... I am not aiming to compete anytime soon, I just want to see how lean I can get on this plan.