My experience getting on TRT

[matt890ca]

I was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress disorder from the f**ked up things I have seen over the past 9 years or so as a Paramedic. I fell into a pretty deep depression and had major anxiety issues. I was first put on paxil and clonazepam which totally screwed me up and made things much worse. I started having severe depersonalization issues. I was later switched to Wellbutrin which was better than Paxil and Clonazepam but still had some depersonalization issues from time to time, as well as still having some bad depressed and anxious days. I also had some last ED and libido dysfunction from the paxil.

Recently I decided to be honest with my doctor. I told him I was concerned I was still having some issues with depression and anxiety even though I have been on treatment for almost a year now and have changed many things in my life to try and shake it (healthy eatting, cardio, no caffeine, CBT, etc.). I told him about my on and off steroid use for the past 12 years which was a lot more over the past 3-4 years. I told him I have been doing a lot of research on low test levels and mental health issues. I asked him if he would be willing to look into investigating this further. I had all my levels checked including bioavailable test levels. My levels all came back as within normal range but on the very low end (similar to what a lot of people are being told). Sorry I don't actually have the values. We talked about specific symptoms and created a list. He told me that he wasn't 100% sure on where to go with this and had me come back after he had a chance to do some further research on it. He actually called me up at home himself and asked me to come in. He was very interested in treating me with test for the mental health issues, upon further questioning about my libido and ED issues he was convinced. He has put me on Test Enanthate 100mg/week. So far so good, I actually have motivation again, look forward to each day, sleep better, anxiety is almost 100% gone, depression seems to be gone...time will tell, but so far so good, ED is gone, libido is back, morning wood is back, feel like lifting again after a long time of just doing cardio.

I'm so pumped that a doc will think outside the box and actually care about treating my symptoms and not just the lab report (although it was showing lower end anyway). This doc may have saved my life. I honestly don't think I could go another year of feeling that way, I would probably have commited suicide at some point, which I was having suicidal thoughts as well and are gone now! I know 100mg/week isn't much, but it's still more than my body was making on it's own.

So to anyone else with low test and trying to get on treatment, look at other symptoms such as your mental health when approaching the doc. And to anyone with anxiety issues and depression that treatment dosen't seem to be working for, have your test levels looked at it may just be the cause.

I will update more as the weeks go on...anyone else have a similar experience with depression and anxiety that cleared up with TRT?

Oh and the other thing...my test is not only legal now but free, thanks to my benefits!

[ubcpower]

Is he making you come in each week and administering it In the clinic?

[matt890ca]

Nope, picked up the vial and I do the shots myself at home. I have to do blood work at the six week mark and then every six months after that. I may add a little extra early in the six month periods, but right now I just want to get my life back in order.

[YYZgeddylee]

great to hear you're back on the mend

[fmrdh]

How are you feeling now? Where are you located?

[dtman]

I am glad to hear about your experience. I really believe that the positive mental effect of testosterone administration in males is probably far more powerful than SSRI's like paxil, without the nasty negative side effects (imagine taking a drug that stops you from orgasm - and that is supposed to make you LESS depressed?). The problem is of course that testosterone has been demonized in the press, especially its mental effects. If a few more doctors in Canada would think like yours we would be much better off. It seems to me that they are much more advanced in this respect in the USA.

[Andre Gregoire]

Glad to hear this.

Since your doc doesn't seem too familiar with TRT make sure he checks your hematocrit levels.

I recommend these two books:

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Guide--Second-Nelson-Vergel/dp/0966223128/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371515012&sr=1-2&keywords=testosterone

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Life-Recharge-Vitality-Overall/dp/0071494804/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1371515012&sr=1-3&keywords=testosterone

[TotalT]

TRT for me was not necessary in my opinion. For years I had undiagnosed Highly Severe sleep apnea. My Total T was anywhere between 582-663 ng/dl when a brilliant TRT clinic doc told me to use his "protocol" for a better quality of life. Was on it for years and it still did not resolve my sluggishness and tiredness. I'm lucky to be alive.
Last year I dumped all this TRT bunk and use my new CPAP machine. At 400 ng/dl of Total T I feel better now, than before going to my TRT doc with even higher levels of T.
All my advice to you is... look at EVERYTHING and do not take the advice of 1 doctor. Just because they are doctors doesn't mean they know everything.
In fact they can mess you up worse than you are.

[Andre Gregoire]

TRT for me was not necessary in my opinion. For years I had undiagnosed Highly Severe sleep apnea. My Total T was anywhere between 582-663 ng/dl when a brilliant TRT clinic doc told me to use his "protocol" for a better quality of life. Was on it for years and it still did not resolve my sluggishness and tiredness. I'm lucky to be alive.
Last year I dumped all this TRT bunk and use my new CPAP machine. At 400 ng/dl of Total T I feel better now, than before going to my TRT doc with even higher levels of T.
All my advice to you is... look at EVERYTHING and do not take the advice of 1 doctor. Just because they are doctors doesn't mean they know everything.
In fact they can mess you up worse than you are.

Glad you figured out it was sleep apnea, my urologist would have never put me on TRT with your total testosterone level, that's mid range not low.

My buddy is on TRT and also has sleep apnea, he didn't get better until both the TRT and the CPAP but his test levels were much lower than yours.

Good advice on getting everything checked because sometimes it's Thyroid also.

[Banacek]

Glad to hear this.

Since your doc doesn't seem too familiar with TRT make sure he checks your hematocrit levels.



This. I am having a tiff with my doc and specialist because my hematocrit is at the high end (53). While my test is dead in the middle of average. They want to lower my dose from 100mg/wk to 75mg/wk, which makes me feel like a bag of crap. So should I have high RBC or loathe life? Seems like an easy decision to me.

Interestingly, I also have sleep apnea and have read this can affect hematocrit levels.

[TotalT]

Glad you figured out it was sleep apnea, my urologist would have never put me on TRT with your total testosterone level, that's mid range not low.

My buddy is on TRT and also has sleep apnea, he didn't get better until both the TRT and the CPAP but his test levels were much lower than yours.

Good advice on getting everything checked because sometimes it's Thyroid also.

And that is the point I'm trying to make. No Endo would put me on anything or treat me when I first sought them out several years ago. A TRT doc at a "Men's clinic" outside of Toronto jumped right into the HCG, TRT protocols for me when at that time my blood work for total T was 582-683 ng/dl). Now it's been a year off and just started to lift again in the last month.
2 blood work Tests so far this year for 2013:
Jan 2013 Total T= 390 ng/dl (did this test at 10:45 AM.)
March 2013 Total T= 288 ng/dl (did this test at 8:45 a.m.)

I wonder if I can ever recover some mid range levels natural again.

[TotalT]

This. I am having a tiff with my doc and specialist because my hematocrit is at the high end (53). While my test is dead in the middle of average. They want to lower my dose from 100mg/wk to 75mg/wk, which makes me feel like a bag of crap. So should I have high RBC or loathe life? Seems like an easy decision to me.

Interestingly, I also have sleep apnea and have read this can affect hematocrit levels.

No doubt you will need to give blood. Both Docs should know this already and they should pause the debate on dosing and get to letting blood.
I have a sense of what situation you are in. I lived it too.
In my case with my TRT doc... when liver values were elevated, TRT doc called me to inform me. You know what he told me on the phone?
"you need to go back to your family doctor, or to a G.I. specialist, this is not from TRT, this is not what we do here" (meaning his clinic does not deal with elevated liver values)
absolutely appalling.

How does a patient go back to his family doc that was un supportive of TRT and tell him that the TRT doc told him to seek his GP out?
it's insanity!!!
my family doc was not supportive of going to this TRT clinic from the get go. But because of my family docs incompitence in not diagnosing my sleep apnea...I had no choice but to seek out my own help. My family doc told me my liver values were elevated from TRT. TRT doc denied it.
Went back and forth for a while.
My point is, these docs (TRT in particular) will tell you to take their protocol and any side effect is on you after that!!!!
...(i.e. elevated liver values, increase in hematocrit)
My TRT doc never helped me with elevated liver values, I don't count on him helping me with elevated hematocrit.
I dumped him as a TRT doc.

[matt890ca]

great to hear you're back on the mend

Thanks YYZ, there's a name that takes me back, hope all is well with you!

[matt890ca]

Well here is what happened following this thread. The doc decided to stop it until I found a family doctor as this was a walk-in clinic doc that I kind of knew through work. Well during that time off TRT all my PTSD symptoms (severe anxiety, deep depression, depersonalization, suicidal thoughts, flashback, night terrors, etc..) came back even worse than the first time. I had to go off work again last July and haven't been back since. I couldn't function any longer. I was having to take higher and higher doses of clonazepam, lorazepam, and then being put on Zoloft as well. All of which made me feel like shit and get fatter lol. Also, it really wasn't safe driving lights and sirens at 130-140km/h down the highway when half sedated on benzo's. Especially since I usually worked alone in a rapid response vehicle.

After a few months I finally found a family doc who was fully on board with putting me on TRT after 2 more blood draws showing me below range for total and bioavailable test, however at the last minute when we were talking doses and administration frequency she said "actually, I should probably be referring you to a urologist first". SHIT! Well after another few months of waiting I finally seen the urologist...basically to sum up the appointment I'll say this. I was told I was wrong, that the TRT I was on before didnt actually work and it was because I have mental health problems that I though it worked. Also upon hearing I have PTSD he quickly asked with a smile "oh ya? What was your trauma?" Like it was some kind of joke...so I replied, "too many dead babies and children" which made him change the subject. He then said testosterone doesn't help mental health problems and that it was all in my head. So I was rejected despite low labs, pretty much because of the stigma that follows mental health problems.

So here's what I did...I put myself on 200mg/week pharmacy grade Test E starting in April....I am now again nearly PTSD symptom free, off all meds, have more energy again, hitting the gym hard again (finally got my bench back above 315, **** ya!), no more sexual side effects and actually look forward to the rest of my life, when before I was ready to end it all. My bodyfat has dropped very significantly and added back a lot of muscle.

The only remaining PTSD symptoms now is some mild anxiety and depersonalization, usually following a trigger (movie with dead children, sometimes an ambulance going light and sirens past, etc..) but very few, and happening less and less as time goes on. And now I am able to stop the anxiety with cognitive behavioural therapy techniques and not have to rely on benzo's.

It's pretty sad and frustrating how we are held hostage to our medical system and that there is such a harsh stigma around both mental health and TRT. So my advice to anyone with legit low labs that are having trouble getting on TRT...just do it yourself. I have my life back again with absolutely no help from our medical system. And really, when the time right, I will start doing blast/cruise for the rest of my life....BONUS! :)

[ubcpower]

Unfortunate an endo or gp wasn't able to help you, hopefully this works. Make sure you get full labs done atleast twice a year. 200mg/week is quite a high trt dose. I know three guys doing HRT through a doc in Vancouver , all using 150mg/week and this puts them at the ceiling of high range around 1200. All the best

[matt890ca]

My plan is to get blood work done every 4 months...which will consist of, CBC, free test, E2, lipid profile, liver enzymes, cortisol and prolactin (only for the first one after coming off SSRIs). However just hit a snag in that plan. Bloodtestscanada apparently closed up, so looking for another private lab without using my family doc. So if anyone knows of a good one, let me know.

The other issue is going to be fertility. My wife and I are planning to start a family sometime in the next year or two. But really, it wouldn't have happened with the state I was in before, so now I will have to work with my LH and FSH levels with HCG and clomid sometime down the road. But that's a bridge we will cross in another 6-8 months from now. At least I have a libido and can keep it rock hard now, unlike when I was low T and on SSRIs.

I know 200 is pretty high, but when I was on 100 my levels were only mid range, so I figured I would double for now until the next blood work and adjust accordingly. I am 6'4" and 250lbs, so 200 may be a good dose for me anyway if we look at dosing by weight. From a lot of studies I have read about TRT and neurotransmitters (mainly dopamine and serotonin) and I also figure the 200 will be a bit of a boost at first. Seems to be working wonders so far.

[Banacek]

Unfortunate an endo or gp wasn't able to help you, hopefully this works. Make sure you get full labs done atleast twice a year. 200mg/week is quite a high trt dose. I know three guys doing HRT through a doc in Vancouver , all using 150mg/week and this puts them at the ceiling of high range around 1200. All the best

Lucky guys, my endo is in Vic and he's happy to see me at the middle of the road or lower.

High hematocrit was mentioned earlier in this thread, seems some guys are blood letting to combat the problem. Sounds creepy but I am open to it if it helps, anyone have any advice on who to talk to about having it done?

Re: Fertiltiy, Matt I was on TRT for almost a year as I tested low. I then tapered off very slowly over the course of a couple months, had my boys tested and they were functioning, not superstars but working nonetheless. The wife was pregnant within a couple of months, soon after the birth I was retested as low and put back on TRT. Haha, and for those with the thought that they might not be my kids, I am very, very certain they are :)

[matt890ca]

Lucky guys, my endo is in Vic and he's happy to see me at the middle of the road or lower.

High hematocrit was mentioned earlier in this thread, seems some guys are blood letting to combat the problem. Sounds creepy but I am open to it if it helps, anyone have any advice on who to talk to about having it done?

Re: Fertiltiy, Matt I was on TRT for almost a year as I tested low. I then tapered off very slowly over the course of a couple months, had my boys tested and they were functioning, not superstars but working nonetheless. The wife was pregnant within a couple of months, soon after the birth I was retested as low and put back on TRT. Haha, and for those with the thought that they might not be my kids, I am very, very certain they are :)

That's what I want to hear :) I've read many threads now on various TRT forums saying the same thing so I'm not overly concerned...and if it takes a while to get her pregnant, well I guess I'll just have to screw a lot...I think I can handle that LOL.

For hematocrit, I was planning on donating blood once in a while. It's a good thing to do regardless, so a win-win on that front.

[matt890ca]

And by the way, same Banacek from the old RC forum? I think it's the same avatar too if I'm not mistaken???

[matt890ca]

Actually disregard that...just saw your introduction thread...I gather from the warm welcomes it is you...good to see you again brother!

[actualnatural]

I cant wait till Im 45 so I can start TRT ..BTW if you complain that you cant sleep they will give you some HGH

[TotalT]

Unfortunate an endo or gp wasn't able to help you, hopefully this works. Make sure you get full labs done atleast twice a year. 200mg/week is quite a high trt dose. I know three guys doing HRT through a doc in Vancouver , all using 150mg/week and this puts them at the ceiling of high range around 1200. All the best

Do you know what day they go in for blood work?
Lets say they shoot the 150 mg of T Monday...
I heard 3 days after is best....so it be Thursday morning for accurate levels.

[actualnatural]

If I were you I would cheat the blood test so they up your doseage...eat only protein for a week and have a beer or 2 per night...and the night before the test get hammered then a few hours before your blood test drink 3 beers.

[TotalT]

If I were you I would cheat the blood test so they up your doseage...eat only protein for a week and have a beer or 2 per night...and the night before the test get hammered then a few hours before your blood test drink 3 beers.

Eating protein only lowers T?

[TT Eric]

Eating protein only lowers T?

Don't take what he says seriously! This guy is here to entertain us.

Eric

[actualnatural]

that's what you want..you want to cheat the blood test every time so that they will give 200I/U's per week instead of one

[actualnatural]

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny_grok/your_doctor_your_dealer

check out the link..don't forget your on test. for life now..never stop

[TotalT]

check out the link..don't forget your on test. for life now..never stop

Test for Life is nothing to be happy about being on. Let's say there is a shortage of prescription T (like there was 2 years ago) where there was no Delatestryl available at the pharmacies. Even Test Cyp was hard to get a hold of. A win-win is having high Natural T that is there for you always provided you fuel and maintain it right!

[Banacek]

Actually disregard that...just saw your introduction thread...I gather from the warm welcomes it is you...good to see you again brother!

Thanks bro, good to be back.

[TotalT]

Well here is what happened following this thread. The doc decided to stop it until I found a family doctor as this was a walk-in clinic doc that I kind of knew through work. Well during that time off TRT all my PTSD symptoms (severe anxiety, deep depression, depersonalization, suicidal thoughts, flashback, night terrors, etc..) came back even worse than the first time. I had to go off work again last July and haven't been back since. I couldn't function any longer. I was having to take higher and higher doses of clonazepam, lorazepam, and then being put on Zoloft as well. All of which made me feel like shit and get fatter lol. Also, it really wasn't safe driving lights and sirens at 130-140km/h down the highway when half sedated on benzo's. Especially since I usually worked alone in a rapid response vehicle.

After a few months I finally found a family doc who was fully on board with putting me on TRT after 2 more blood draws showing me below range for total and bioavailable test, however at the last minute when we were talking doses and administration frequency she said "actually, I should probably be referring you to a urologist first". SHIT! Well after another few months of waiting I finally seen the urologist...basically to sum up the appointment I'll say this. I was told I was wrong, that the TRT I was on before didnt actually work and it was because I have mental health problems that I though it worked. Also upon hearing I have PTSD he quickly asked with a smile "oh ya? What was your trauma?" Like it was some kind of joke...so I replied, "too many dead babies and children" which made him change the subject. He then said testosterone doesn't help mental health problems and that it was all in my head. So I was rejected despite low labs, pretty much because of the stigma that follows mental health problems.

So here's what I did...I put myself on 200mg/week pharmacy grade Test E starting in April....I am now again nearly PTSD symptom free, off all meds, have more energy again, hitting the gym hard again (finally got my bench back above 315, **** ya!), no more sexual side effects and actually look forward to the rest of my life, when before I was ready to end it all. My bodyfat has dropped very significantly and added back a lot of muscle.

The only remaining PTSD symptoms now is some mild anxiety and depersonalization, usually following a trigger (movie with dead children, sometimes an ambulance going light and sirens past, etc..) but very few, and happening less and less as time goes on. And now I am able to stop the anxiety with cognitive behavioural therapy techniques and not have to rely on benzo's.

It's pretty sad and frustrating how we are held hostage to our medical system and that there is such a harsh stigma around both mental health and TRT. So my advice to anyone with legit low labs that are having trouble getting on TRT...just do it yourself. I have my life back again with absolutely no help from our medical system. And really, when the time right, I will start doing blast/cruise for the rest of my life....BONUS! :)

Looks like you have found yourself shit docs...
I feel for you. Get bloodwork done bro...
200 mg/week will elevate hemoglobin in not time...
How many days from your T shot do you do your bloodwork ?

[TotalT]

Lucky guys, my endo is in Vic and he's happy to see me at the middle of the road or lower.

High hematocrit was mentioned earlier in this thread, seems some guys are blood letting to combat the problem. Sounds creepy but I am open to it if it helps, anyone have any advice on who to talk to about having it done?

Re: Fertiltiy, Matt I was on TRT for almost a year as I tested low. I then tapered off very slowly over the course of a couple months, had my boys tested and they were functioning, not superstars but working nonetheless. The wife was pregnant within a couple of months, soon after the birth I was retested as low and put back on TRT. Haha, and for those with the thought that they might not be my kids, I am very, very certain they are :)

What were your total T levels at?
what are you at now for total t?
when your wife got pregnant how much did your T recover to?

[matt890ca]

Looks like you have found yourself shit docs...
I feel for you. Get bloodwork done bro...
200 mg/week will elevate hemoglobin in not time...
How many days from your T shot do you do your bloodwork ?

Right now, no bloodwork....looking for another private lab in Canada as I do not want my GP involved. That's the one lab value I think will be the biggest change. I plan to donate blood to counteract it.

Anyone know of a good place/company/site to get private labs done? Bloodtestscanada is now closed :(

[TotalT]

Right now, no bloodwork....looking for another private lab in Canada as I do not want my GP involved. That's the one lab value I think will be the biggest change. I plan to donate blood to counteract it.

Anyone know of a good place/company/site to get private labs done? Bloodtestscanada is now closed :(

Don't know of blood labs. But you need to monitor hemoglobin. A good preventative from excess hemoglobin building up is donating blood every 4 months...
And when you go there your TRT is not to be discussed. You don't want these people flagging you as a drug user when you are not.
You use clean needles...clean gear.
If hemoglobin is left as is on TRT...it just keeps climbing and climbing. Then you will need a script to donate blood....doubt your doc will help you there if he is not prescribing it.
Then you are surely to be documented by him if you have high hemoglobin...because he will write down in his notes what he believes the cause is.
I'm looking out for you bro....

[matt890ca]

Absolutely, thanks.

I would definitely not be telling the blood bank anything. And myself being a paramedic and my wife a nurse we both agree that if it costs a little more we are ok buying human grade gear only. And clean pins are not a problem, I have tons :)

[TotalT]

Absolutely, thanks.

I would definitely not be telling the blood bank anything. And myself being a paramedic and my wife a nurse we both agree that if it costs a little more we are ok buying human grade gear only. And clean pins are not a problem, I have tons :)

Absolutely buy human grade gear. Who's to say some guy never used motor oil in the black market stuff?
It's just too risky.

[Banacek]

Before TRT my levels were below the lowest of the window they call normal. @100mg/wk, I am exactly in the middle of the window. I don't have any results with me so I can't give exact numbers, and unfortunately I have no idea where I was at when the wife became pregnant.

And you are bang on with the high hematocrit, the docs will try to cut back everything or stop TRT if the RBC comes back high. I gave blood this week and I feel a lot better, hard to explain, but will hit the lab monday and see if it has any effect on test results.

Picked up a sleep monitor from the sleep clinic as well today because i am curious if my poor sleep is jacking up the RBC too. We will see.

[cog]

High hema should translate to an increase in BP.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10411372/

[Banacek]

yes i have high BP, always have.