need advice on the 5x5 method

[devestating]

So im no beginner by any means but i really want to start the 5x5 training program this coming monday, ive looked at all the other sites and they all say the same thing theres like 4 exercises for 3 months mon wed fri then phase II is like 6 exercises and the same and then like 9 exercieses, is this all BS that someone made up or is it tired and true ?

[Praetorian]

Yes the 5x5 is a legitimate training routine and they are many variations...see link below for a sample.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler73.htm

Another method is Jim Wendlers 5-3-1 method...see link below.

http://theswole.com/concept/531-jim-wendlers-theory-of-strength/

The truth is it really doesnt matter which method you choose...there isnt one better than the other or one thats going to make you big and strong...what will make you big and strong is your ability to read and understand and decipher the facts from fiction and to put that into physical use...you will need to sacrifice to get to your goal...its very simple...but it aint easy.

See article below...
P


Four Ways To Get Freaking Huge

Time To Get Swole

Man, do I have some magical, mystical, mass building advice for you today. But I know – you’re extremely skeptical. You’re waiting for the bullcrap; to be let down by some cool sounding training system with overly complicated mumbo jumbo, and exercises that suck.

Sorry, no fail for you today.

I don’t hand out fail. I’m not pushing an agenda. You want to get big fast, then do the following.

1 – Stay with a Simple Routine

Listen, you have been searching for the ultimate routine for years. In fact, you spend more time reading about routines then performing routines. And each week you switch routines. I’ve found it, this week I’m making the change to blah, blah, blah and will grow!

Fail!

Enough with this foolishness. I’m about to carpet bomb your fantasies, so you have been warned. Brace yourself. Here goes…it doesn’t matter what routine you use. Yes, you heard me right. Doggcrapp, Max Stim, Dogg Stim, Max Crapp…whatever. Just pick something and stick with it. And make sure the routine isn’t complicated. You don’t need complicated.

A simple routine focuses on progression of weight using basic heavy compound lifts including:

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press
A form of the Overhead Press
E. T. C.

If you find that your routine has you doing giant sets, drop sets, or focusing on the dreaded mind-muscle connection, run like the wind. And worse yet, if it contains too many isolation movements…well…FAIL. You don’t need training techniques or isolation movements, you need to:

2 – Lift Heavy Ass Weights

Lift heavy ass weight. Heavy ass weight makes muscles grow. Heavy ass weight can be in any rep range, because it is heavy ass weight and is kicking your balls seven ways to Sunday.

What rep range should I use? FAIL! It doesn’t matter – Lift heavy ass weights!

What should my rep speed be? FAIL! It doesn’t matter – Lift heavy ass weights!

Should I do cable crossovers before or after flyes, and should incline bench be performed with a 22 degree angle, or a 24 degree angle? FAIL! It doesn’t matter – Lift heavy ass weights!

What split is the most effective for mass? FAIL! FAIL! FAIL!

GO LIFT HEAVY ASS WEIGHTS!

But I don’t want to lift heavy! So and so says that squats are bad for your knees, and my mom is afraid and wants me to take up knitting.

Both so and so, and your mom (no offense to moms) can barely lift a roll of toilet paper to wipe their own asses. If you want to look like your mom, listen to the training advice of your mom. If you want to pack on muscle, lift heavy ass weight!

The end!

3 – Stop Bitching and Get Your Ass to the Gym!

I’m tired.

My toe hurts.

My right nut seems small today, maybe I shouldn’t train.

Want to know how to fail? I mean epic fail? Continue to make excuses, and avoid going to the gym. Want to know how to succeed? Gird up your balls, shut the hell up, and get your ass to the gym, 52 weeks a year. The end.

This isn’t complicated.

Of course your left nut hurts! You’re lifting weights. Lifting heavy ass weights will hurt from time to time. Pain is part of the equation. We aren’t collecting bottle caps here, Charles.

4 – Forget Your Damned Abs and Eat!

I want a six pack!

Bud, if you think you can pack on muscle and carve out a six pack in the same month, you need to lay off the crack pipe.

This just in…if you want muscle, you need to eat big. If you want to be a 220 mass monster, but only weigh 120, you need to start eating like you weigh 220 pounds.

How long should I bulk before I cut? FAIL! Eat until people at the gym start asking you where you get your steroids from. Then, and only then can you start cutting.

Should my bulk be dirty or clean? FAIL! Grab a shovel and get to gettin’.

Whole milk has fat! Almonds have fat! I can’t eat fat! FAIL! Listen, drinking whole milk and lifting heavy ass weights equals muscle mass.

Final Thoughts

Lift heavy ass weight using heavy ass compound lifts.
Eat big.
Never miss a workout.
Stick with a basic routine.
Follow these 4 rules for two years and you will dramatically change your body. The end.

[TT Eric]

Hahaha I like that!

Eric

[devestating]

well im sold!

i did my research and im gonna do the SL5x5

Milk, Eggs, Meat, Cheee....the Reg Park diet

[Praetorian]

well im sold!

i did my research and im gonna do the SL5x5

Milk, Eggs, Meat, Cheee....the Reg Park diet

You will need some carbs in order to grow...its called insulin!!!
P

[Nirus]

after reading this all I can think of is..."everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but dont know buddy wanna lift no heavy ass weight!!"

[Hosehead]

Yes the 5x5 is a legitimate training routine and they are many variations...see link below for a sample.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler73.htm

Another method is Jim Wendlers 5-3-1 method...see link below.

http://theswole.com/concept/531-jim-wendlers-theory-of-strength/

The truth is it really doesnt matter which method you choose...there isnt one better than the other or one thats going to make you big and strong...what will make you big and strong is your ability to read and understand and decipher the facts from fiction and to put that into physical use...you will need to sacrifice to get to your goal...its very simple...but it aint easy.

See article below...
P


Four Ways To Get Freaking Huge

Time To Get Swole

Man, do I have some magical, mystical, mass building advice for you today. But I know – you’re extremely skeptical. You’re waiting for the bullcrap; to be let down by some cool sounding training system with overly complicated mumbo jumbo, and exercises that suck.

Sorry, no fail for you today.

I don’t hand out fail. I’m not pushing an agenda. You want to get big fast, then do the following.

1 – Stay with a Simple Routine

Listen, you have been searching for the ultimate routine for years. In fact, you spend more time reading about routines then performing routines. And each week you switch routines. I’ve found it, this week I’m making the change to blah, blah, blah and will grow!

Fail!

Enough with this foolishness. I’m about to carpet bomb your fantasies, so you have been warned. Brace yourself. Here goes…it doesn’t matter what routine you use. Yes, you heard me right. Doggcrapp, Max Stim, Dogg Stim, Max Crapp…whatever. Just pick something and stick with it. And make sure the routine isn’t complicated. You don’t need complicated.

A simple routine focuses on progression of weight using basic heavy compound lifts including:

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press
A form of the Overhead Press
E. T. C.

If you find that your routine has you doing giant sets, drop sets, or focusing on the dreaded mind-muscle connection, run like the wind. And worse yet, if it contains too many isolation movements…well…FAIL. You don’t need training techniques or isolation movements, you need to:

2 – Lift Heavy Ass Weights

Lift heavy ass weight. Heavy ass weight makes muscles grow. Heavy ass weight can be in any rep range, because it is heavy ass weight and is kicking your balls seven ways to Sunday.

What rep range should I use? FAIL! It doesn’t matter – Lift heavy ass weights!

What should my rep speed be? FAIL! It doesn’t matter – Lift heavy ass weights!

Should I do cable crossovers before or after flyes, and should incline bench be performed with a 22 degree angle, or a 24 degree angle? FAIL! It doesn’t matter – Lift heavy ass weights!

What split is the most effective for mass? FAIL! FAIL! FAIL!

GO LIFT HEAVY ASS WEIGHTS!

But I don’t want to lift heavy! So and so says that squats are bad for your knees, and my mom is afraid and wants me to take up knitting.

Both so and so, and your mom (no offense to moms) can barely lift a roll of toilet paper to wipe their own asses. If you want to look like your mom, listen to the training advice of your mom. If you want to pack on muscle, lift heavy ass weight!

The end!

3 – Stop Bitching and Get Your Ass to the Gym!

I’m tired.

My toe hurts.

My right nut seems small today, maybe I shouldn’t train.

Want to know how to fail? I mean epic fail? Continue to make excuses, and avoid going to the gym. Want to know how to succeed? Gird up your balls, shut the hell up, and get your ass to the gym, 52 weeks a year. The end.

This isn’t complicated.

Of course your left nut hurts! You’re lifting weights. Lifting heavy ass weights will hurt from time to time. Pain is part of the equation. We aren’t collecting bottle caps here, Charles.

4 – Forget Your Damned Abs and Eat!

I want a six pack!

Bud, if you think you can pack on muscle and carve out a six pack in the same month, you need to lay off the crack pipe.

This just in…if you want muscle, you need to eat big. If you want to be a 220 mass monster, but only weigh 120, you need to start eating like you weigh 220 pounds.

How long should I bulk before I cut? FAIL! Eat until people at the gym start asking you where you get your steroids from. Then, and only then can you start cutting.

Should my bulk be dirty or clean? FAIL! Grab a shovel and get to gettin’.

Whole milk has fat! Almonds have fat! I can’t eat fat! FAIL! Listen, drinking whole milk and lifting heavy ass weights equals muscle mass.

Final Thoughts

Lift heavy ass weight using heavy ass compound lifts.
Eat big.
Never miss a workout.
Stick with a basic routine.
Follow these 4 rules for two years and you will dramatically change your body. The end.

I checked those links out and although those routines look interesting and make sense I am wondering how well they would work for a 43 year old ? I still squat , bench and deadlift so I don't shy away from the basics. My only problem seems to be recovery isn't where it was say even two years ago. I will also be off AAS for an extended time too. IYO what would be the best way to incorporate a 5x5 routine and utilize maximum rest ?

[Praetorian]

I wouldnt recommend 5x5 for someone who has significant lifting experience or at your age...I would suggest a more specific hypertrophy program as opposed to strength based. Beginners need to build a decent strength base even if they want to be a BB...its called functional hypertrophy. As we age and have a decent strength base we need not keep pushing the strength limit as it will become detrimental to recovery as well as too risky with regards to injury. What are your stats...ie years lifting, bench, dead, squat maxes, weight and height, etc
P

[Hosehead]

I wouldnt recommend 5x5 for someone who has significant lifting experience or at your age...I would suggest a more specific hypertrophy program as opposed to strength based. Beginners need to build a decent strength base even if they want to be a BB...its called functional hypertrophy. As we age and have a decent strength base we need not keep pushing the strength limit as it will become detrimental to recovery as well as too risky with regards to injury. What are your stats...ie years lifting, bench, dead, squat maxes, weight and height, etc
P

43 yrs old 5ft11, 240lbs.
23 years lifting (first 10 on large amounts of prednisone so I gained nothing)
Bench (paused) 370x1. I rarely work on max lifts. 285x10 is normally my top set . Incline numbers are the same as flat.
Deadlift - ? Best is 465x7. Again I don't do singles, never have. Have DDD in six discs.
Squat - 455x7 was my best a few years ago. Did 405 x12 last year with no belt or wraps. Torn meniscus that needs surgery. Right now I squat with 315 comfortably for 15-20 reps. No belt. Have done 30 reps when healthy.
Seated BB military - 225x8-10.
Seated DB press 110x8-10 100's for 15 or more.
Bent rows - 275x8
One arm db row- 150's x10-12
Close grip bench 265x7.
Biceps are rarely trained anymore due to tendonitis. Light when I do.

This might not make sense but all my lifts are the same with or without gear. The only thing that seems to change is my shape and conditioning.

My goal is perhaps a little more size and maintenance without AAS. Not concerned with abs although I do train them , usually with weight added. I realize I will have to eat more without the gear.

[Talo]

Google Bill Starr 5x5 - he has a great program.

[Praetorian]

43 yrs old 5ft11, 240lbs.
23 years lifting (first 10 on large amounts of prednisone so I gained nothing)
Bench (paused) 370x1. I rarely work on max lifts. 285x10 is normally my top set . Incline numbers are the same as flat.
Deadlift - ? Best is 465x7. Again I don't do singles, never have. Have DDD in six discs.
Squat - 455x7 was my best a few years ago. Did 405 x12 last year with no belt or wraps. Torn meniscus that needs surgery. Right now I squat with 315 comfortably for 15-20 reps. No belt. Have done 30 reps when healthy.
Seated BB military - 225x8-10.
Seated DB press 110x8-10 100's for 15 or more.
Bent rows - 275x8
One arm db row- 150's x10-12
Close grip bench 265x7.
Biceps are rarely trained anymore due to tendonitis. Light when I do.

This might not make sense but all my lifts are the same with or without gear. The only thing that seems to change is my shape and conditioning.

My goal is perhaps a little more size and maintenance without AAS. Not concerned with abs although I do train them , usually with weight added. I realize I will have to eat more without the gear.


You have very decent strength...so training to increase strength at your age and mine( im 44) is really detrimental to bodybuilding goals. Our joints etc cannot take the continuous pounding and getting stronger will not really correlate into new muscle gains. I found at my age i make the best gains really striving to isolate the muscle especially on compound movements. As an example instead of squatting 600lb for sets of 5-6 reps I will now do 405lb off a 1inch block and go for 10-15 reps....killer! I will also pre-exhaust with moderate weight leg extensions...sets of 20 prior to squatting as well as leg curls prior to squatting. I no longer need strength...iv squatted over 700lbs raw and the same goes for deads....heavier is not going to help build more muscle at this point...the key now is direct that stress to the target muscle...and intead of powering the weight up with hips, glutes, hams, etc...try to isolate the quads by putting the stress more directly onto them...hence the 1 inch block.
I train 4 days per week now which adds more recover time and since i dont need to train arms really heavy anymore i stick tris with chest and bis with delts...works great. I find my strength and recovery much better...I also keep the reps mainly 8-10 on most exercises...legs can be higher...chest sometimes as low as 6 but no lower.

Quads + hams
Chest + tris
off
Back + traps
Delts + bis
off
off
repeat


P

[Hosehead]

You have very decent strength...so training to increase strength at your age and mine( im 44) is really detrimental to bodybuilding goals. Our joints etc cannot take the continuous pounding and getting stronger will not really correlate into new muscle gains. I found at my age i make the best gains really striving to isolate the muscle especially on compound movements. As an example instead of squatting 600lb for sets of 5-6 reps I will now do 405lb off a 1inch block and go for 10-15 reps....killer! I will also pre-exhaust with moderate weight leg extensions...sets of 20 prior to squatting as well as leg curls prior to squatting. I no longer need strength...iv squatted over 700lbs raw and the same goes for deads....heavier is not going to help build more muscle at this point...the key now is direct that stress to the target muscle...and intead of powering the weight up with hips, glutes, hams, etc...try to isolate the quads by putting the stress more directly onto them...hence the 1 inch block.
I train 4 days per week now which adds more recover time and since i dont need to train arms really heavy anymore i stick tris with chest and bis with delts...works great. I find my strength and recovery much better...I also keep the reps mainly 8-10 on most exercises...legs can be higher...chest sometimes as low as 6 but no lower.

Quads + hams
Chest + tris
off
Back + traps
Delts + bis
off
off
repeat


P


I also pre exhaust my quads before squatting. Usually leg extensions , ham curls before leg press or squat. I also like to feel the weight now. I'll try your split. Here's mine currently :

Quads and hams
Chest and shoulders
rest
back and traps
tris and bis
rest
rest

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm gonna stick with what I'm doing , which is basically what you do. I am gonna try training for 6 weeks straight and taking two weeks off. Once a year I will take 4-6 weeks off.

[Praetorian]

I would say 2 weeks off every 6 is a bit too much if you are looking for any type of solid gains...I would suggest something more like a one week deload every 8 weeks and a full off week every 16.
P

[Hosehead]

I would say 2 weeks off every 6 is a bit too much if you are looking for any type of solid gains...I would suggest something more like a one week deload every 8 weeks and a full off week every 16.
P

Really ? I have read that after six weeks of any program your body becomes acclimated to the point it doesn't serve to continue on as per usual. I figured that the seventh week would be a good time to rest. I also have an auto immune disease that can sometimes zap my energy. But I'll take your advice and do the deload. My next question is - what is a deload ?

[dngerfield]

deload.......


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121391461&page=1

[Praetorian]

Really ? I have read that after six weeks of any program your body becomes acclimated to the point it doesn't serve to continue on as per usual. I figured that the seventh week would be a good time to rest. I also have an auto immune disease that can sometimes zap my energy. But I'll take your advice and do the deload. My next question is - what is a deload ?

That's nonsense your body is much more resilient than that...not to mention most aren't even close to 90% intensity...a deload week would be much better.
P

[Hosehead]

That's nonsense your body is much more resilient than that...not to mention most aren't even close to 90% intensity...a deload week would be much better.
P

I think what I will do is take the deload at the point at which I feel I am not making gains or I feel overtrained, rather than schedule a deload. I will go back to a log book to chart my progress. Worked well on DC and MaxOT. Did legs today. Decreased my rest time to two minutes between all sets. Barely made it to my car and I'm still wobbly. Thanks for all the info Prae.