blood work - partial results ???

[Vitamin S]

p,

here are the results, the rest are pending i guess i will have them in a day or two but doctors office asked me to come in...

Thyroid Function
TSH 1.68 range 0.30 - 5.50 mU/L

Pituitary Function
Follicle Stimulating Hormone 2.2 range 2.0 - 18.0 U/L
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

Leutinizing Hormone (LH) 4.7 range 2.0 - 18.0 U/L
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

Prolactin HIGH 98.5 range 4.0 - 15.0 ug/L (this one seems fukked, is this from all the deca over the years)
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

Reproductive and Gonadal

Estradiol 82 < 156 pmol/L
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)


Testosterone Results are pending


would this be the reason for very low libido?

[Vitamin S]

the rest

Testosterone LOW 4.0 Range 8.4 - 28.7 nmol/L
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)

- Drawn at 1136 h
Testosterone Bioavailable Calculated LOW 2.7 Range 5.0 - 18.0 nmol/L
(Method of Vermeulen)

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 14 Range 13 - 71 nmol/L
(Roche - Electrochemiluminescence)


cycle was finished nov 4 2011, and pct was finished dec 28 2011.

cycle was test/npp/anavar

post cycle was nolvadex and test booster

these numbers seem really bad, and they are i will tell my doc everything that i have taken he seems really cool about it. funny thing is i had no problems until i started npp i stayed away from deca for this reason, but thought i was fine as i had been taking test alongside to prevent deca related symptoms.

on another note, with these low levels how am i able to keep my strengh and size in the gym? could it be due to diet and supplements. i have no fatigue or any other symptoms other than libido. that is the only issue i have.

also i initially told him i had symtpoms of low test and had used supplements and what not , but i never out right said aas, sshould i tell him, he might be wondering why its so low or should i not, i dont want it on my record for obvious reasons.

thanks P.

[cog]

If you're big he's already figuring aas are involved.There was a guy in insurance that used to post here,maybe you could find an old thread.

[Praetorian]

Not sure why prolactin is so high...I would verify that with another test to make sure...as anomalies do happen. Low thyroid can cause increased prolactin and even though your TSH is fine i would be curious about free T3 levels. Also being that you finished the cycle Nov i cant see the NPP causing the present prolactin levels...any higher levels at the time of NPP use should have subsided by now. High prolactin will prevent recovery, cause low test and its related effects ie decreased libido and nipple tenderness as well. What did you take for a test booster? Have you spoken to your Doc yet?...he most likely realizes you used gear...i doubt he is naive about that.
Ask him about the prolactin...he may also refer you to an endo for more complete work.
P

[Vitamin S]

p,

i am not sure why my prolactin is that high since i stopped npp way back. do you think it could be prolactinoma that is producing too much prolactin. i really don't have any other side effects other than loss of libido. i really doubt its prolactinoma as i have used steroids over the last 8 years and that seems more of a culprit and as i always was fine until i used deca and npp later in my cycles.

the test booster i used was just an otc by universal called animal stak. i also used nolvadex 20mg for 30 days.

how do i get my t3 levels checked?

doctor is quite young and open, so i don't think i ought to lie, just be straight up and that way they can better see whats going on. i am seeing him friday. maybe he will send me to endo.

the low test and free test makes sense, but that too is very low.

would i take cabergoline to lower prolactin, or should i have him redo my test as that number seems very high.


ps. not sure if this is reason for high prolactin - 5mg of cipralex im taking (type of ssri) but i have only been on it for 4 weeks at lowest dose possible.
and my libido has been very low months prior to ever taking cipralex, i wonder if it made it much worse.

i read it here ( i will let him know this)

http://www.drugcite.com/indi/?q=CIPRALEX&s=&a=&i=BLOOD+PROLACTIN+INCREASED

thx p

[Praetorian]

SSRI's are known to cause elevated prolactin levels...elevated serotonin triggers prolactin release. It may have been low for awhile but it is possible the increased prolactin is preventing full recovery and hence libido.
As you know it can take 6 months to a year to fully recover.
P

[Vitamin S]

i will speak to doc about this, perhaps he can prescribe dostinex. if i take dostinex to lower prolactin will that automatically increase my test levels, or do i have to take hcg/clomid etc for that?

how bout vitamin b6 to bring down prolactin at 600mg daily for a few weeks ?

shoud i ask him to get free t3 levels checked too?

thx.

[Praetorian]

By lowering prolactin you do increase chances of getting testosterone back up...you may need some clomid or nolvadex to push it up faster by kicking in higher LH once prolactin is under control via the doistinex... B6 stimulate dopamine which inhibits prolactin...but to what extent im not sure. If TSH is low T3 is most likley fine...next time you do blood work just ask to check free T3 and T4 levels as well.
P

[Vitamin S]

p,

i spoke to doc today. he didn't seem overly concerned. i told him all background. he said the prolactin can take some time to come down and usually will on its own. he said i don't need dostinex at this moment.

he said its high but i don't have any major symptoms other than low libido, which he says is probably from the past use of anabolics. he said he wants to wait 6 months and re test and see if the prolactin comes down and if I am still having libido issues, then he can prescribe androgel. not at the moment, says its not an urgent matter.

he did say he will refer me to an endo for further testing, and they can do an mri for adrenal glands or kidneys something like that and see if there is prolactima ?? but says its unlikely and nor is the ssri a culprit at my dose to cause this. he points everything to past AAS use.

we left it at that.

now my question is , i really don't wanna wait that long to get things going, is there anything i can take, like if i can get dostinex should i take it? or should i redo a more aggresive pct?

what if i do a short cycle to boost test levels exogenousally and then do a proper pct regime right after would that work , or make things work.

again appreciate all ur inputs.

[Praetorian]

Do not do another cycle that will just make things worse. I agree I wouldnt want to wait and see either. Who wants to walk around with no libido...I would start dostinex at a low dose and see what happens in a few weeks. Also what scares me is he is already talking about putting you on HRT without trying to correct the issue...as most Docs will do because they really have no experience restoring HPTA...their solution is HRT.
What I would do is try to reduce the prolactin and push up the test with clomid and nolva and possibly HCG.
P

[Vitamin S]

ok,

that was what i was thinking too. what dose of dostinex shall i run .5mg twice a week for a month? how should i run the pct? and do i run the pct alongside the dostinex or wait till dostinex is done.

i got endo appt in 2 weeks shall i wait to see what she says and then start all of this?

also i read online that its okay to use dostinex short term with an ssri, as some people do to actually combat the side effects induced by ssri such as low libido and lethargy etc, just wanna make sure it won't effect cipralex by introducing an dopamine agent. below source from wikipedia, not sure how correct it is.

Off-label/recreational uses

It has at times been used as an adjunct to SSRI antidepressants as there is some evidence that it counteracts certain side effects of those drugs, such as reduced libido and anorgasmia. It also has been suggested online that it has a possible recreational use in reducing or eliminating the male refractory period, thereby allowing men to experience multiple ejaculatory orgasms in rapid succession, and at least one scientific study supports those speculations.[7] It is also used by bodybuilders to control gynecomastia caused by elevated prolactin levels through the use of anabolic steroids such as Nandrolone and Trenbolone.


thx p

[Praetorian]

I would attempt to get prolactin reduced first and then work at raising test levels. The normal adult dosage for hyperprolactinemia strats at .25mg twice weekly...it can be raised by .25mg twice weekly...maximum dosage is 1mg twice weekly. Once prolactin is lowered you can attempt to raise testosterone.
I would try 1000iu HCG every third day(5000iu total) plus nolvadex 10mg twice daily( three weeks) 12 hours apart and clomid 50mg twice daily(three weeks) 12 hours apart.

Up to you when to start...i doubt the endo will much to say about your test levels except recommend hrt if they dont improve.

P

[Vitamin S]

thank you so much p,

i am seeing an endo april 12th so its not that far off, i have waited long enough i will just wait to see what thye say and if its same as what doc already said, i will just start therapy as you outlined

how many weeks would i run the dostinex, and how do i know if i should be increasing etc?

could i do

.25mg mon/thurs week 1
.5mg mon/thurs week 2-4

would you say that i get blood work done after the 4 weeks of dostinex from a different doctor and then start pct, or also do pct then get blood work done.

[Vitamin S]

questions.

I ordered the dostinex, and will run it .25mg twice a week mon/Thursday and increase it as outlined up to 1mg twice a week for a total of 4 weeks.

1. would I run the blood work after this to see prolactin before starting pct?

2. do I run all three hcg/clomid/nolvadex together or one after the other?

thx

[Praetorian]

Yes I would get blood work after Dostinex is finished...just so you know where you stand. Start the HCG, nolva, clomid at the same time.
P

[Vitamin S]

thx p, will do so.