Bill C-10

[Durk]

What does everyone think of this?

I can agree with the harsher penalties for sex offenders, but the other stuff like mandatory sentences for pot growers, and changing the pardon system get real. I could care less if some hippie has six plants in his yard. If he is high, he is probably too lazy to go out and commit real crimes.

Also the pardon system I can agree with ten years for a pardon for sex and other serious offences, but not five years for small offences. I dont know about other provinces, but I know that in Ontario it is pretty much impossible for you to get even most minimum wage jobs with a criminal record. All I can really see this doing is turning regular people who made a stupid mistake into career criminals.

Also seems like no province except for Alberta wants to fork over any money for this hefty bill lol

[Pec]

The comments from people about the pot growers not being a big deal is really getting out of control... think about the people in BC that have had renters trying to run small grow ops, or if you were unlucky enough to buy a house that was being used as one to any degree. It's a big expense to the home owner, those guys need to be punished so it stops becoming a joke when they catch them.

Smoking pot is one thing, growing it in a residential area is something totally different and still leads to crime.

[razorsedge]

Any time you have a bill which wants to increase penalties for certain categories of offences there is a lot of smoke and mirrors. At present, the sentencing criteria and "punishable by" sections are in place in the Criminal Code but the problem lays with the actual "imposed sentence by the judiciary".

For example, and no offence intended to anyone and not to marginalize any offence, stiff penalties are already attached to sex offences but when offenders are found guilty, when have you ever seen the maximum sentence imposed....almost NEVER. Why is the question that has to be asked to the politicians and judiciary. They spend lots of time and money trying to impose a bill such as this when it isn't necessary. The provisions that are already in place have to be used to the fullest extent...there is not a need to change "punishable by "maximums.

Almost everyone on this board, at one time or another, has either had their home illegally entered or have a close friend that has suffered same. Some of these incidents are taken as minor while others more serious, i.e., you can have your laptop stolen when you are not home or the illegal entry could be by offenders who enter the home with the residents present and commit offences such as home invasions for whatever reason (could be to steal a grow op; to steal other items in the home like illicit drugs or cash; could be to commit a sexual attack)...the offence of break enter and commit offence therein has a maximum sentence of 14 years. When has that ever been imposed...in fact, an illegal entry to a drug house resulting in a death to the resident usually gets pled down to a manslaughter etc and sentence of 5-8 years max imposed so how does that get rationalized by justice system. Take that same offence and have it take place 10 miles south of the USA border...thats a lifer with no parole.

Mandatory sentences for drug growers...please. Only the most serious cases will even be considered and at the end of the day it will not happen. What will happen is there will be a deal made where the offender will enter a plea to a lesser included offence, say possession of controlled substance for purpose of trafficking or worse, simple possession, and a sentence will be imposed under the lesser section.

Don't waste your good energy worrying about the possible bills that may be passed about any offences in Canada and the possible consequences. Nothing is going to change. Our system will continue to be more lenient in all facets of sentence imposing as it has become more acceptable over the years to have these lighter sentences handed out. There you go...the rant of the day but sit back and think about it...no changes will be made to impact anyone.

[Talo]

That's because no other province has money , Alberta will carry the country for a long time.

In regards to the bill I agree with what you said Durk. Besides marijuana and hemp should be legal , no need to go backwards with this.

[Talo]

The comments from people about the pot growers not being a big deal is really getting out of control... think about the people in BC that have had renters trying to run small grow ops, or if you were unlucky enough to buy a house that was being used as one to any degree. It's a big expense to the home owner, those guys need to be punished so it stops becoming a joke when they catch them.

Smoking pot is one thing, growing it in a residential area is something totally different and still leads to crime.

Agree but I don't think would an issue if it was legal. People could go to reliable and legal sources. You don't see people doing this with alcohol but they did when there was prohibition in the US.

[ironwill]

Agree but I don't think would an issue if it was legal. People could go to reliable and legal sources. You don't see people doing this with alcohol but they did when there was prohibition in the US.

I was going to write the exact same thing....That is truth right there...., Although i agree the pricks that rent and ruin peoples homes should be pissed on...That is a crime, plain and simple!!
Prohibition saw a tonne of crime, then when it was legal again, mobsters moved on to other goods....
Pot is a great pre workout supplement...lol

[Durk]

The comments from people about the pot growers not being a big deal is really getting out of control... think about the people in BC that have had renters trying to run small grow ops, or if you were unlucky enough to buy a house that was being used as one to any degree. It's a big expense to the home owner, those guys need to be punished so it stops becoming a joke when they catch them.

Smoking pot is one thing, growing it in a residential area is something totally different and still leads to crime.

OK I can 100% agree with this. Pot grow opps destroy houses and lead to crime/gang activity. I was thinking more about someone and their personal supply. The new law states six plants I think it should be more clear on some old hippie vs crime for profit activity. I personally dont smoke pot and cant stand to be around most burn outs lol, but I think it should be dispensed by the gov. It would gain huge profits and cut off one of organized crimes biggest life lines.

[Durk]

Any time you have a bill which wants to increase penalties for certain categories of offences there is a lot of smoke and mirrors. At present, the sentencing criteria and "punishable by" sections are in place in the Criminal Code but the problem lays with the actual "imposed sentence by the judiciary".

For example, and no offence intended to anyone and not to marginalize any offence, stiff penalties are already attached to sex offences but when offenders are found guilty, when have you ever seen the maximum sentence imposed....almost NEVER. Why is the question that has to be asked to the politicians and judiciary. They spend lots of time and money trying to impose a bill such as this when it isn't necessary. The provisions that are already in place have to be used to the fullest extent...there is not a need to change "punishable by "maximums.

Almost everyone on this board, at one time or another, has either had their home illegally entered or have a close friend that has suffered same. Some of these incidents are taken as minor while others more serious, i.e., you can have your laptop stolen when you are not home or the illegal entry could be by offenders who enter the home with the residents present and commit offences such as home invasions for whatever reason (could be to steal a grow op; to steal other items in the home like illicit drugs or cash; could be to commit a sexual attack)...the offence of break enter and commit offence therein has a maximum sentence of 14 years. When has that ever been imposed...in fact, an illegal entry to a drug house resulting in a death to the resident usually gets pled down to a manslaughter etc and sentence of 5-8 years max imposed so how does that get rationalized by justice system. Take that same offence and have it take place 10 miles south of the USA border...thats a lifer with no parole.

Mandatory sentences for drug growers...please. Only the most serious cases will even be considered and at the end of the day it will not happen. What will happen is there will be a deal made where the offender will enter a plea to a lesser included offence, say possession of controlled substance for purpose of trafficking or worse, simple possession, and a sentence will be imposed under the lesser section.

Don't waste your good energy worrying about the possible bills that may be passed about any offences in Canada and the possible consequences. Nothing is going to change. Our system will continue to be more lenient in all facets of sentence imposing as it has become more acceptable over the years to have these lighter sentences handed out. There you go...the rant of the day but sit back and think about it...no changes will be made to impact anyone.

Then why are they building all of these new jails, and putting new additions on most current prisons? If they build them wont they be obligated to fill them?

[#8]

I cant even name a prison or jail in Ontario that isnt already at or over capacity. Building new facilities could most likely be filled be the people that are currently incarcerated. I hope dope never becomes legal.

[razorsedge]

Then why are they building all of these new jails, and putting new additions on most current prisons? If they build them wont they be obligated to fill them?

They will put people in jail but you were concerned with mandatory and possibly minimum / maximum sentencing amendments attached to CC convictions. People are always going to go to jail but the money wasted passing bills regarding sentencing, i.e., min and max attached to a conviction is really not applicable. Your point, as I took it, was mandatory sentences for say pot growers. If you are convicted and there was "hypothetical mandatory 6 months in jail".....any lawyer worth half a can of salt if he sees his client is going to get convicted, even half way through a trial, goes to Crown and says his client will plead out to possession for purpose in exchange for say...a hefty fine, maybe forfeit property or at the extreme 30 days in jail which works out to 10. Crown will take it every time as it saves trial dollars and a conviction is a conviction...anything can happen in a trial that will make it tilt drastically to the accused' favor and Crown knows this. Believe it or not, growing pot is looked at as a "victimless crime" and that will cause a stir I'm sure. Nobody was directly assaulted, stolen from, killed etc from most pot growing ops so there is no accountability to a victim. Courts do not give one shit about the landlord who had his house wrecked with the grow op...civil case...if people think different their head is in the sand. Same thing goes for the high profile impaired driver .... with no MVI or injury attached....guy gets nailed going home at a roadcheck...no victim. These are the cases that judiciary have no direct person to account to and check and see how many times these guys walk....way way higher than the victim crimes.

I have worked in this system for 30 years and the system is made to be manipulated...people will always go to jail but maximum sentencing is never an issue. The jails are not full of people doing max sentences believe me...mostly the minimum that could be bargained for and thats why you hear of people with 15-20 convictions still out committing crime...they did minimums and are out.

[Hosehead]

That's because no other province has money , Alberta will carry the country for a long time.

In regards to the bill I agree with what you said Durk. Besides marijuana and hemp should be legal , no need to go backwards with this.

I just saw a thing on the CBC last night touting Saskatchewan as the 'richest' province.

[cog]

I just saw a thing on the CBC last night touting Saskatchewan as the 'richest' province.

Then I guess Saskatchewan should be sending all the transfer cash.

[cog]

The comments from people about the pot growers not being a big deal is really getting out of control... think about the people in BC that have had renters trying to run small grow ops, or if you were unlucky enough to buy a house that was being used as one to any degree. It's a big expense to the home owner, those guys need to be punished so it stops becoming a joke when they catch them.

Smoking pot is one thing, growing it in a residential area is something totally different and still leads to crime.

In BC my suspicion is that the landlords know what is going on and are getting a cut.they should legalize tax and control.Are these new prisons owned by the gov or private?

[cog]

Edit
I should say a certain percentage of landlords know what is going on.

[ironwill]

I hope dope never becomes legal.

Here is a great movie you may be able to enjoy!!!



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6696582420128930236#