Ab training frequency

[#8]

Some advocate every day while others suggest less frequent core / ab training as to treat them like any other muscle group. I am of the mindset, and have personal experience with good results that this muscle group can be trained with moderate volume / intensity several times a week or nearly every day.

What is the general consensus in this area? What works for you, or your clients the best? What should be avoided at all costs? Any opinions?

[Delt King]

I prefer 2 to 3 times a week with resistance. I use 10 to 12 reps and hold/flex my peak contraction for a 2 count every rep.

Things to avoid....endless crunches with no resistance.

[Praetorian]

Twice weekly.
P

[Sean Summers]

Training for look or performance?

[steve_d]

I rarely train abs...Actually the only time I ever do it is the couple weeks leading towards a show because I am in the gym so often that I run out of things to do - so I'll just throw abs in the mix. My opinion is that I get alot of ab work through the other types of exercises I do. Maybe people won't agree with it, but I've honestly never had the need for direct ab work.

Ab and core work could benefit someone who has weakness in core stability, but if you already have a strong core, I don't think training abs does much in terms of 'bodybuilding' purposes - ie what they look like on stage.

[TT Eric]

Me too, I was training them rarely, just training them the month before the contest. Doing other exercise like rowing dumbbell and stuff like that is working them pretty well. Mainly the reason why I was not training them was to keep a small waist, I absolutely hate the big belly because of the thick abdominal muscle.

But since some time I train them once a week as I have been recommended to do some to reduce back pain. My method is to train them like a huge superset of 6-8 exercises with no rest. It keep the waist thin, add nice definition and make them look good IMO.

Eric

[#8]

Training for look or performance?

Is it possible to achieve both at the same time? I have some physical testing coming up that has some rather lofty goals in terms of ab strength. Does one not go hand in hand with the other assuming diet is in check?

[Delt King]

Good point SS. Training for the look---would be training for nice thick ab bricks that pop. Training for performance (usually endurance) doesn't necessarily achieve the desired look.

As far as wanting to keep a nice small waist...if your waist is wide you're not an ideal candidate for bodybuilding and will have to fight your genetics all the way.

[#8]

Im not competing and nor do I have a thick waist. To max out in the ab strength category of fitness testing I will need to tough out 70+ crunches in a row, which is retarded. I hate crunches and I do not find them effective or productive for anything. I will have to incorporate them now from time to time simply to keep my numbers relatively good, I was just most concerned with how often I should be doing my training. Im gonna stick to 3-4x a week.

[cog]

Im not competing and nor do I have a thick waist. To max out in the ab strength category of fitness testing I will need to tough out 70+ crunches in a row, which is retarded. I hate crunches and I do not find them effective or productive for anything. I will have to incorporate them now from time to time simply to keep my numbers relatively good, I was just most concerned with how often I should be doing my training. Im gonna stick to 3-4x a week.

In the past I haven't found working to high reps in Ab work to be that difficult.Performance would include twisting power and the ability to generate power going past a neutral spine such as during a tennis or volleyball serve.This area doesn't seem to get nearly the attention it should.Rather interested in this subject #8.

[cog]

What all are you doing right now#8?

[#8]

I do mainly high intensity plank work for several minutes at a time. I posted up a similar routine in TT Erics thread not long ago. It is what worked very well for me in the past in terms of strength, and as long as I eat very low carb the "show" of it comes as well. My concern is that top points for this fitness testing is a massive amount of crunches. Being around 220 I find it quite hard to crunch my body weight that many times. The progress is very slow going and I am much more comfortable performing ab work in plank style movements, alternating legs and hands in the air, elbow push ups, reaching out etc. This stuff is brutally hard once the reps get high.

[cog]

No work on the GHD or Roman chair?TRX?

[tex]

im 220 and i can get thru around 200 crunches...just takes time to build up endurance...but for strength purposes i keep my ab moves limited to standing or upright movements ie hanging leg raise....just seems more practical for me to do movements upright........

[#8]

^^ No offense dude, but I am HIGHLY doubtful that at your weight you can perform 200 crunches strictly with proper form. I cant imagine anyone outside of elite level gymnast or professional fighter being able to accomplish that, and there are probably no gymnasts 220lbs. What most people call a crunch is utterly horrific in form and execution in my opinion.

[JMP]

This sounds like a good training vid for us , post one up #8 ....I know my form sucks on these , let see what it shoud look like !



^^ No offense dude, but I am HIGHLY doubtful that at your weight you can perform 200 crunches strictly with proper form. I cant imagine anyone outside of elite level gymnast or professional fighter being able to accomplish that, and there are probably no gymnasts 220lbs. What most people call a crunch is utterly horrific in form and execution in my opinion.

[JMP]

Corrected the missing "L" in should before Nate gets me !


This sounds like a good training vid for us , post one up #8 ....I know my form sucks on these , let see what it should look like !

[#8]

If I had the patience to video tape myself and upload it I probably would. There are good videos on youtube of people that know what they are doing. I tend not to do crunches very much because I dont find them that effective compared to other exercises. I also am of the mind that they should always be done somewhat elevated, ie. on a ball or bosu ball as to expand the range of motion and take the stress of the back. They are also much harder to perform properly on a ball thus increasing the effectiveness in my opinion. Those who are very confident can perform them from a full upside down position or even on a roller depending on preference / ability.

[cog]

TRX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBrBjpOa5rc&feature=related

[tex]

i boxed 3-4 nights a week for a looong time....we did 15 minutes of abs every night...straight 15 minutes no rest.....and i was at bodyweight over 240 when i was doing this....its possible....

[cog]

i boxed 3-4 nights a week for a looong time....we did 15 minutes of abs every night...straight 15 minutes no rest.....and i was at bodyweight over 240 when i was doing this....its possible....

Boxers have strong cores for sure.Tell us what you did Tex.

[tex]

started with crunches...50 reps or until everyone finished their 50...then bicycles for 50 touches each leg, planking, lying leg raise, scissor kicks, cross body crunch, jack knifes....repeat....repeat....by this time im on the verge of death and im soaked from head to toe...didnt take too long to get good endurance as we did this at the end after sparring........higher bodyweight does suck esp since i was carrying some pudge

[cog]

Yeah I bet jackknifes are tough for a big guy.Sounds grueling.

[tex]

it was horrible and i cursed him every night cuz my abs would cramp soo goddamn bad afterwards.....

[cog]

it was horrible and i cursed him every night cuz my abs would cramp soo goddamn bad afterwards.....

I think these TRX movements would be very hard for a big guy,I tried some jackknifes between a pair of TRX's and I had to bend at the knees and it's still very intense.

[tex]

yeah ive seen the trainers at my gym going thru the cert for this trx and it looks like it would be hell for a larger man

[cog]

Well I was fairly certain I tried one of these Bosu balls years back and wrote it off.I tried these crunches on the ball#8,these are for fat ladies.

[GYMBRAT]

I rarely train abs...Actually the only time I ever do it is the couple weeks leading towards a show because I am in the gym so often that I run out of things to do - so I'll just throw abs in the mix. My opinion is that I get alot of ab work through the other types of exercises I do. Maybe people won't agree with it, but I've honestly never had the need for direct ab work.

Ab and core work could benefit someone who has weakness in core stability, but if you already have a strong core, I don't think training abs does much in terms of 'bodybuilding' purposes - ie what they look like on stage.

x2, I believe the same way

[cog]

x2, I believe the same way

Could this be the real reason so many big bb'ers have big guts?

[cog]

Any decision on this yet #8?

[#8]

I tried a few of those TRX movements out on the olympic ring set I have. It was definitely different, Ill give it that. It doesnt match the burn I get from my routine though, for me anyway. I will continue to incorporate some of these ring movements into my routine because I can do them at home very easily which is a huge plus for me.

Thanks for posting those. I believe variety is the spice of life :)

[#8]

I really should post a vid of the routine I do because its seriously intense and builds definition as well as core strength / stability. I should have done this last week over my reading week but maybe Ill get around to it soon.

Im still having a lot of trouble with my shoulder due to the separation in november and broken collarbone in january. Its hard for me to do much of anything outside strict leg work and bike cardio, but ill try to get around to stuff when I can.

Thanks for the responses so far.

[cog]

Is your shoulder cleared for working out?Have you tried ring presses?

[#8]

I have tried a bit of light upper body in the past week or so and ya i tried some ring presses. Im still experiencing a good amount of pain at the site of the broken collarbone so I think im still a few weeks away at least from anything worthwhile. Im making an appt back at the physio place to make sure its healing properly.

[Thorgrim]

If you want to get good at crunches do crunches. How much time do you have before physical testing?

When I was best at sit ups I was in high school. I was part of track club and in the winter we did circuit training because there was nowhere to run. Part of the circuit was situps. There were about 8 stations or something and one was situps. We started doing 20 situps every rotation by the end of winter we were doing 50 and we ended up doing these sets 5-6 times when were tired. most of the kids wouldn't do all the reps or would half ass it I always did all of mine strictly. When we had physical testing I ended up doing over 300 situps straight.

I don't do situp or crunches anymore though. They are bad for the back. I do advanced planking and hanging leg curls. Also recently started experimenting with some TRX stuff and dragon flags. I do my ab work for core strength only and when I am powerlifting my core only needs to be stable for short periods of time. So i do short duration high load stuff 2x week.

[cog]

Tell us about the advanced planking Thorgrim.

[Thorgrim]

For the planking I do salute planks, or dumbell pull under planks. Lately those have been too easy so I have been doing salute planks with weight on my back or salute planks with my feet in a TRX or regular planks with lots of weight on my back.

[cog]

45 lbs?

[Thorgrim]

Try a 25 and see how it feels. 45 makes a pretty big difference. I have gone as high as 70 so far on the regular plank. Make sure the weight is partially on your low back and partially on your butt. The closer it is to your center of mass the heavier it will feel. If doing weighted salute planks start cautiously. The first time I did a salute with a 25 on my back I pulled a hip flexor.

[Shaun73]

training abs once a week is more than enough for me. Its just a matter of bodyfat composition for me now. Once your abs/core is really developed i dont think it need to be trained as often

[cog]

training abs once a week is more than enough for me. Its just a matter of bodyfat composition for me now. Once your abs/core is really developed i dont think it need to be trained as often

What's really developed?

[cog]

Try a 25 and see how it feels. 45 makes a pretty big difference. I have gone as high as 70 so far on the regular plank. Make sure the weight is partially on your low back and partially on your butt. The closer it is to your center of mass the heavier it will feel. If doing weighted salute planks start cautiously. The first time I did a salute with a 25 on my back I pulled a hip flexor.

I tried this with a 25 with the edge have way up my back.I do ring and v flyes with my feet elevated 8-12 inches so my core is used to this.Raising one leg will be much tougher I think.

[cog]

Suspended TRX oblique crunch,one elbow on the mat and other hand reaching under to the other side,found this difficult.

[cog]

12 inch diameter Ab wheel,rollout from the standing position,this is tough.Any luck with high rep crunches #8?

[#8]

Havnt been doing any crunches just sticking with body weight resistance plank and ring work still. I find crunches seriously useless. I am tall and have a LONG torso so this puts extra strain on me to do them properly. I need to drop a bit more weight before these will become doable.

[cog]

Have been doing some crunches on a stack machine,mostly the same.A long time ago I used to do a partial crunch for the top end,a portion of your torso hangs over the edge of a thickly padded bench,hold a db in the lying tri position behind your head.