Clen\Ephedrine

[RagingRandy]

I am doing some clen right now and will continue on it for 2 weeks and then switch to Ephedrine for 2 weeks and then back to the clen, ans so on. What is the longest I should stay on these for? Will 2 months be too long? I am wanting to drop some fat before starting my first cycle.

[St]

I did my up to 16 weeks max,been doing this since 1996,feel great and look great,but don't ask me how my Organs are.;)

[IronRobi]

I remember you posted something like this a while back HERE (http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1768), and fathead gave you advise on not cycling one followed by the other. Listen to him, it's solid advise. By cycling 2 weeks clen then 2 weeks ephedrine, you are rendering both of them absolutely useless!!

Clen and ephedrine are both beta agonists. Clen interacts specifically with b2-receptors. This is what makes it effective. Ephedrine interacts with b-receptors as well as others. By using ephedrine on your 2 weeks off you are going to be using up your available b-2 receptors rendering your Clen useless. Then when you switch back to ephedrine after your 2 weeks of useless Clen, there are no available b-receptors either making your ephedrine useless too. The reason you take the off time is to allow your body to regenerate it's supply of b2 receptors so when you start back on the clen it will have something to interact with and cause you to lose weight. The reason they say to use Clen with t3 for best results, t3 helps produce b2 receptors allowing your clen to be more effective for longer. Without it, you must follow a time on = time off cycle for best results.

Drop the ephedrine completely, cycle your Clen in a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and you'll lose tons of fat. Trust me, I'm doing exactly that right now. If you do a quick search on this board for "clen" or "ephedrine" you will see the same advise given by many people all the time.

[The Terminator]

I remember you posted something like this a while back HERE (http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1768), and fathead gave you advise on not cycling one followed by the other. Listen to him, it's solid advise. By cycling 2 weeks clen then 2 weeks ephedrine, you are rendering both of them absolutely useless!!

Clen and ephedrine are both beta agonists. Clen interacts specifically with b2-receptors. This is what makes it effective. Ephedrine interacts with b-receptors as well as others. By using ephedrine on your 2 weeks off you are going to be using up your available b-2 receptors rendering your Clen useless. Then when you switch back to ephedrine after your 2 weeks of useless Clen, there are no available b-receptors either making your ephedrine useless too. The reason you take the off time is to allow your body to regenerate it's supply of b2 receptors so when you start back on the clen it will have something to interact with and cause you to lose weight. The reason they say to use Clen with t3 for best results, t3 helps produce b2 receptors allowing your clen to be more effective for longer. Without it, you must follow a time on = time off cycle for best results.

Drop the ephedrine completely, cycle your Clen in a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and you'll lose tons of fat. Trust me, I'm doing exactly that right now. If you do a quick search on this board for "clen" or "ephedrine" you will see the same advise given by many people all the time.

x2.

To add to the T3 comments, T3 speeds metabolism by itself, but is not specifically lipolytic. With it speeding metabolism, it is not selective on energy sources. In other words, expect it to burn fat, carbs, and protein equally. And with it burning protein, we're talking muscle as well.

T3 is not recommended without AAS due to the muscle burning effect. I ran an experiment on this last year and I lost equal amounts of body fat and muscle with caliper testing and no AAS. Diet was full out keto, so muscle sparing was maximized by diet.

The bottom line? T3 with anabolic, and T3+clen+AAS = kick ass fat burning combo.

Matt

[St]

I remember you posted something like this a while back HERE (http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1768), and fathead gave you advise on not cycling one followed by the other. Listen to him, it's solid advise. By cycling 2 weeks clen then 2 weeks ephedrine, you are rendering both of them absolutely useless!!

Clen and ephedrine are both beta agonists. Clen interacts specifically with b2-receptors. This is what makes it effective. Ephedrine interacts with b-receptors as well as others. By using ephedrine on your 2 weeks off you are going to be using up your available b-2 receptors rendering your Clen useless. Then when you switch back to ephedrine after your 2 weeks of useless Clen, there are no available b-receptors either making your ephedrine useless too. The reason you take the off time is to allow your body to regenerate it's supply of b2 receptors so when you start back on the clen it will have something to interact with and cause you to lose weight. The reason they say to use Clen with t3 for best results, t3 helps produce b2 receptors allowing your clen to be more effective for longer. Without it, you must follow a time on = time off cycle for best results.

Drop the ephedrine completely, cycle your Clen in a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and you'll lose tons of fat. Trust me, I'm doing exactly that right now. If you do a quick search on this board for "clen" or "ephedrine" you will see the same advise given by many people all the time.

Ya i do remember that thread on both,but for me its for energy,and eating less.I like to switch them up,since that if i were to stay on one compound for too long i would have to take more to feel anything.I like 6 days on with sundays off and when i start back on a monday i can take a lower dose than saturday to feel anything.Now i like Helios it amazing.

[RagingRandy]

I remember you posted something like this a while back HERE (http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1768), and fathead gave you advise on not cycling one followed by the other. Listen to him, it's solid advise. By cycling 2 weeks clen then 2 weeks ephedrine, you are rendering both of them absolutely useless!!

Clen and ephedrine are both beta agonists. Clen interacts specifically with b2-receptors. This is what makes it effective. Ephedrine interacts with b-receptors as well as others. By using ephedrine on your 2 weeks off you are going to be using up your available b-2 receptors rendering your Clen useless. Then when you switch back to ephedrine after your 2 weeks of useless Clen, there are no available b-receptors either making your ephedrine useless too. The reason you take the off time is to allow your body to regenerate it's supply of b2 receptors so when you start back on the clen it will have something to interact with and cause you to lose weight. The reason they say to use Clen with t3 for best results, t3 helps produce b2 receptors allowing your clen to be more effective for longer. Without it, you must follow a time on = time off cycle for best results.

Drop the ephedrine completely, cycle your Clen in a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and you'll lose tons of fat. Trust me, I'm doing exactly that right now. If you do a quick search on this board for "clen" or "ephedrine" you will see the same advise given by many people all the time.

Yep that was me, Oh my ailing memory. I have read elsewhere to switch back and forth but what you and Fathead desribed makes sense. Thanks again. Now all I need to do is find a use for all my Ephedrine.

[The Terminator]

Now all I need to do is find a use for all my Ephedrine.

Save it for when you have a head and chest cold. It kicks ass as a nasal and chest decongestant.

Matt

[Sean]

Yep that was me, Oh my ailing memory. I have read elsewhere to switch back and forth but what you and Fathead desribed makes sense. Thanks again. Now all I need to do is find a use for all my Ephedrine.


Again, alot of people use 2 weeks on and 2 weeeks off using clen while on and Eph while off. Some will argue that Benadryl and keto don't actually help upregulate your receptors as well. Depends on you and your body, it might work for you or you might get better results using just one at a time (try it yourself). Alot of different theories on this as well..

[shithead]

I hate clen, it wires me for the first few days. After that I am exhausted all the time.
While I'm feeling this exhaustion, my heart is racing.

That, and its toxic to cardiac muscles.

Not a drug for me. I'd rather do the hard work and take safer alternatives.

[The Terminator]

Again, alot of people use 2 weeks on and 2 weeeks off using clen while on and Eph while off. Some will argue that Benadryl and keto don't actually help upregulate your receptors as well. Depends on you and your body, it might work for you or you might get better results using just one at a time (try it yourself). Alot of different theories on this as well..

Benedryl is not proven at all, but ketotifen is. A simple search on Google Scholar will show medical studies where the upregulation of beta 2 andrenergic receptors was shown to resensitize with ketotifen.

Benedryl is a myth though, no research proving it.

Matt

[The Terminator]

That, and its toxic to cardiac muscles.

Not a drug for me. I'd rather do the hard work and take safer alternatives.

I love and hate clen as well. I get the shakes really bad, and co-workers start to wonder if I'm turning into Michael J Fox. :D

But as far as heart necrosis goes, it's shown to make heart muscles stronger, hence why there is a study going on in the States right now where heart attack victims are treated with clen rather than a heart pump to stimulate the heart.

As well, the studies showing necrosis were using extremely high doses on rats. How high of a dose?

Well, a typical bodybuilder takes 50 to 120mcg/day orally. The studies on rats were using injected clen at 5mg/kg bodyweight. Even on a 1kg rat, 5mg is insane. Think about this. If we're talking a 225lb bodybuilder (102kg), they'd be injecting 510 000mcg/day, split into two injections.

It's really a ridiculous comparison if you think about it. ;)

Matt

[shithead]

Heres a study at 1.5mg/kg in rats, still a high dose but we've all upped our doses of clen before. Esp the Chinese versions, where the potency is in question.

Oral clenbuterol may have deleterious effects on heart function in mice
Victor Chu, Jose M. Otero, Orlando Lopez, Ivo Amende, and Thomas G. Hampton; Mouse Specifics, Inc., Boston, MA. USA.

Web Published: October 1, 2001

Abstract

Based on their anabolic properties, &#223;-adrenergic agonists such as clenbuterol have been used as muscle-specific growth-promoting agents. 1,2 The dual influences of clenbuterol on skelatal and cardiac muscle growth2-4 compelled us to screen its effects on the electrocardiogram (ECG) in mice. Accordingly, we non-invasively recorded ECGs in adult male AKR/J mice orally administered clenbuterol. Heart rate decreased ~18&#37; after 3 days of clenbuterol administration (P<0.05). The QRS interval duration increased significantly. These observations may be suggestive of downregulation of &#223;-adrenergic receptors and the known hypertrophic effects of clenbuterol on cardiac muscle.

[The Terminator]

I realized I had some faulty math, I forgot to convert lbs to kg's, so I updated the dose.

For the 1.5mg/kg, it'd still be 153 000mcg. I'd be happy with a lot less than that. :D

Matt

[shithead]

Heres the one your referring to:

Chronic clenbuterol treatment improves heart and myocyte function in heart failure, with and without mechanical unloading

Gopal Soppaa, Joon Leea, Mark Stagga, Samuel Youssefa, Magdi Yacouba and Cesare Terraccianoa

aImperial College London, Heart Science Centre, Harefield, Middlesex, UK

Available online 7 June 2006.

[shithead]

Or it could be this one:

http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/short/77/4/695

[shithead]

Clen is not for me, maybe because at the time I was taking it, all the press and/ studies were bad. This poor press, plus my speeding heart, probably made my mi nd race and determine that this was in fact a bad drug.

New research says its good? I still wont take it until my Doctor prescribes it for me.

[RagingRandy]

I am up to 100mcg\day. At the start of the day it can be hard to think and speak at the same time, so I avoid people. By noon things have calmed down but I start to shake a bit. I really noticed it today trying to operate a mouse. I am also starting to get joint and muscle aches. At the rate I am going I should drop about 15lbs. in 2 weeks. 15lbs. in 2 weeks is OK by me. I will bump up to 120 or 140 this weekend when I do not need to interact with anyone and see how it goes.

[St]

Ya just looked in my 2006 Anabolics reference and Clen targets selective beta-2 agonist,also Ephedrine action toward both alpha and beta receptors,Also the book says that after several weeks have past (one month or two months off)

[IronRobi]

I am up to 100mcg\day. At the start of the day it can be hard to think and speak at the same time, so I avoid people. By noon things have calmed down but I start to shake a bit. I really noticed it today trying to operate a mouse. I am also starting to get joint and muscle aches. At the rate I am going I should drop about 15lbs. in 2 weeks. 15lbs. in 2 weeks is OK by me. I will bump up to 120 or 140 this weekend when I do not need to interact with anyone and see how it goes.

Just don't make the mistake I did and with a dosage of 120mcg run to the store and grab a rockstar before work. The mixture of caffeine + clen and I was vibrating like crazy for almost 10hrs.

[The Terminator]

Just don't make the mistake I did and with a dosage of 120mcg run to the store and grab a rockstar before work. The mixture of caffeine + clen and I was vibrating like crazy for almost 10hrs.

Funny, because most of the people I know get more lethargic on clen, making it necessary for more caffeine intake to make it easier to function. For instance, I bought an espresso maker a few weeks ago. I've been drinking roughly 16 shots of espresso every day, not including the sugar free Rockstars that I occasionally pick up. :D

Matt

[RagingRandy]

Funny, because most of the people I know get more lethargic on clen, making it necessary for more caffeine intake to make it easier to function. For instance, I bought an espresso maker a few weeks ago. I've been drinking roughly 16 shots of espresso every day, not including the sugar free Rockstars that I occasionally pick up. :D

Matt

That is the way it is for me. I am yawning all day. I have an espresso machine myself. I am a heavy coffee drinker and caffeine does not seem to affect me any differently while on clen. Only problem is, is even though I feel tired I need to go to bed 2 hours later or I am just string at the ceiling.