How long is too long?

[gettingbigger]

One would think that to compete at a national level that you would be on consistantly drop to HRT then bounce up for a standard cycle.

I believe its called blast and cruise.

But what is a normal level, what is a standard cycle level.
I am not new to AAS or to PCT of any kind. However more information is always required ;)

Lets say HRT\TRT at 500mg week, long esters such as sustanon or test E, susained for a year.
2 standard cycles in that time, 150mg tren\prop combo eod for 10 weeks, then back down.

Some questions.
Is it ok to be on a base of 500mg for the rest of your life, if your under 40? I know guys that have been on 500mg for 10 years. They are now 55 ish.

Yes blood work every 6 months is mandatory to watch for any oddities. Regular checkups and monitoring.
Does your body get "used" to what your taking as a HRT\TRT dose?
Would you have to go higher and higher to continually achieve goals?

I have 2 differing opinions.
One is to stay on year round grow nice and slow over a long period of time. No crazy doses like 2000 mg week stuff.
One is to only do cycles pre-contest, cruise through the contest diet down to maintain mass then come off.

What are others opinions?

[Praetorian]

Your first statement in incorrect so the rest of the argument is fundamentally flawed. HRT is not usually 500mg weekly...its much less. 500mg weekly would be considered a supra-physiological dose. Staying on year round and growing nice and slow on paper seems fine but in the real world the body doesn't work like that.

You can easily do two cycles per year and compete at the national level...one off season lean mass gaining cycle and one precontest cycle...the rest of the time includes PCT and off time.

P

[gettingbigger]

I Supopse your right, 100 mg once a week would be a normal HRT\TRT dose.

Praetorian
I stand corrected on my assumption that PROs are on year round low dose.

So how does the body work in your opinion? The more information I have the better an educated decision I can make.

This is part of the propblem with this stuff, I know several IFBB pros personaly, and each one has a differing opinion of AAS. I have talked with them face to face on the subject.

My doctor says its ok if your monitored and take apropriate action when the time(s) come.
Standard cycles are 6-16 weeks, time on + PCT = TIME OFF, repeat....as an example.
Some guys are on 500mg week, and do exactly what I stated, blast up standard cycle cruise at 500mg week.

Obviously the longer your on, the greater risk for future side effects.

I am not saying its right to stay on at 500mg a week, I am trying to make an educated decision with seriously conflited information.

[Andre Gregoire]

I am on Doctor prescribed TRT and taking 200mg every 2 weeks, I have done lots of research and I'm trying to convince him to put me on 100mg every week instead. From studies I have read 125-150mg per week doesn't seem to negatively affect any health metrics but as soon as you go higher, like 300mg per week, you start running into negative stuff.

I won't comment on the other stuff but going over 150mg per week probably isn't a SAFE choice for your TRT/cruise phase.

[GYMBRAT]

TRT at 120mgs wkly for me and Im 39 yrs old, trust me it works wonders for those who need it. Meaning Doc prescribed/scripted or....:)

[gettingbigger]

I won't comment on the other stuff but going over 150mg per week probably isn't a SAFE choice for your TRT/cruise phase.

Yes please do comment on the other stuff, the more information I get the better.

One would assume that you guys would also recomend standard cycles 2 per year tops, and say 500 to 750mg week tops?

[Praetorian]

I Supopse your right, 100 mg once a week would be a normal HRT\TRT dose.

Praetorian
I stand corrected on my assumption that PROs are on year round low dose.
***SOME DO SOME DONT...IT VARIES GREATLY

So how does the body work in your opinion? The more information I have the better an educated decision I can make.
***THE BODY WORKS IN A SPECIFIC WAY...IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY OPINION...ITS CALLED SCIENCE...THAT WAY WE CAN CREATE DRUGS THAT PRETTY MUCH WORK ON THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE
***AS PER AAS THERE IS A LIMITING FACTOR WITH REGARDS TO DOSAGE AS WELL AS DURATION...THAT MEANS MAXIMUM GAINS COMBINED WITH MINIMUM SIDES...ONCE YOU PASS THIS LEVEL THE INCREMENTAL GAINS ARE SMALL AND SIDES INCREASE DRAMATICALLY...WITH REGARDS TO DURATION MOST SEE REDUCED INCREMENTAL GAINS STARTING AT 10-12 WEEKS WITH 16 BEING ABOUT THE LONGEST YOU WOULD GO...AT THIS POINT OFF TIME IS REQUIRED FOR MOST IN ORDER TO NORMALIZE AND SEE SIGNIFICANT GAINS THE NEXT CYCLE
TIME ON = TIME OFF IS CRAP...TIME OFF = PCT PLUS BLOOD WORK...WHEN NORMAL YOU CAN START AGAIN..FOR SOME THAT SHORTER OTHERS LONGER

This is part of the propblem with this stuff, I know several IFBB pros personaly, and each one has a differing opinion of AAS. I have talked with them face to face on the subject.

My doctor says its ok if your monitored and take apropriate action when the time(s) come.
Standard cycles are 6-16 weeks, time on + PCT = TIME OFF, repeat....as an example.
Some guys are on 500mg week, and do exactly what I stated, blast up standard cycle cruise at 500mg week.

Obviously the longer your on, the greater risk for future side effects.

I am not saying its right to stay on at 500mg a week, I am trying to make an educated decision with seriously conflited information.


P

[cog]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that some of the bigger guys are on 500 weekly.What steps they are taking to avert trouble is what I would be interested in hearing gettingbigger.

[JonnyO]

Who cares what others are doing as I highly doubt you are going to get a 100% honest answer out of any National level, IFBB Pro or anyone that knows their stuff really about how they go about doing things cycle wise to reach that point.

Make the decision yourself and go from there. As long as you keep your health in check you will know whether your pushing it too hard or not. But if you decide to go for do it right and dont half ass it is all I can say.

[gettingbigger]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that some of the bigger guys are on 500 weekly.What steps they are taking to avert trouble is what I would be interested in hearing gettingbigger.

What trouble would you be talking about specificaly, health, sex drive, PE?
If you get blood work done and are monitored by a physician then it should be fine, if your levels are normal and your still on 500 a week.
However, most doctors that I know dont know squat about what we do, honestly.
They can do all the tests they want, even my own doctor does not know the difference between arimidex and nolvadex, "they are basical the same" was the answer he gave me.

He is willing to watch my levels though, and take care of me, tell me when things are off the wall and its time to stop so to speak.
There is just so much conflicting information.

[Mr Ontario]

You would think the bigger you are, the higher prescript HRT you would need.


It wouldn't surprise me at all that some of the bigger guys are on 500 weekly.What steps they are taking to avert trouble is what I would be interested in hearing gettingbigger.

[cog]

Bloodwork.I would think these guys are doing something to avoid thick blood.Donating blood?These pros need to tell you a little bit more info if you can get them to gettingbigger.

[cog]

You would think the bigger you are, the higher prescript HRT you would need.

I always thought so as well.

[Andre Gregoire]

I like Prae's advice for guys that compete once per year. I think it's logical to do an off season cycle and a pre-contest cycle and the rest of the time stay off and let your body normalize and recover.

Pro's are in the difficult situation where they are competing several times per year and doing guest posing/appearances all throughout the year. They don't like going anywhere and not looking their best so often, as you can guess, they stay on year round. I am guessing some are smarter and they bridge between cycles with lower dosages. The point is even in the pro's only a handful make a living from this sport so is it worth pissing your health away and staying on year round? Also, staying on year round might be good to maintain gains but probably not the best way to keep making significant progress.

Another surprising fact is how long it takes for hormones to go back to normal, from reading these boards people think you can be back to normal 6-8 weeks after pct, in reality it takes much longer than that in most people. I have read studies showing long term users taking 12-18mths to get back to low normal free test levels.

[Praetorian]

It wouldn't surprise me at all that some of the bigger guys are on 500 weekly.What steps they are taking to avert trouble is what I would be interested in hearing gettingbigger.

Not for TRT that is way too high.
P

[Praetorian]

Lets put it this way...

1 year = 52 weeks
1 precontest cycle = 16 weeks
1 off season cycle = 16 weeks
PCT 8-10 weeks minimum
Add 2-3 weeks post cycle to taper off after each cycle =4-6 weeks
Thats a total of 44-48 weeks which leaves 4-8 weeks clean training...not a whole lot of time really.
P

[cog]

Posting on my phone so I cant include long ass quotes.Andre,we know that legions of bb's have put health considerations for the long term somewhere down the list of considerations.Many never truly come off.These pros already have significant mass,they arent looking for significant gains.Strydom at 270 fairly lean in his fifties?

Prae of course it's too high for what is considered TRT.You read of people doing all kinds of things(50 mg Tren Ace E3D considered HRT?)what they do to manage this as Jonny says,they likely won't tell you.And I certainly don't expect you to hand out that kind of advice ......in good conscience.

[Praetorian]

Many people do things that they may think is alright but due to ignorance they fail to see the issues usually until it is too late.
P