Glutamine and BCAA's once and for all?

[Vitamin S]

p,

i know you think both of these are irrelevant. bccas can be found per scoop of whey, and glutamie is destroyed in the gut unless taken via IV. so why are soo many bb'ers and others saying its crucial post workout and first thing in am to prevent muscle breakdown?

would it be helpful during pct? i am doing well in pct apart from libido lol but want to make sure i have all the supps i need to do well.

thx

[Praetorian]

I just started using BCAA's during my training and post workout as well as in some shakes through the day similar to what Poliquin recommends. I will have to say that I am doing quite well...I am eating very little carbs as you may know from some previous posts...between 100-180 or so per day and that includes trace carbs and with the added BCAA's I am staying quite lean (approx 8%) since the Nationals Oct 9 sitting currently at 255lbs (and doing PCT now as well). The reason I started using BCAA's was because I am now sponsored and they are provided at no charge...so I though I would give it a shot.
So i guess I am eating my words...its still early but they do look promising!
My pre-intra workout recipe:

1 heaping tspn bcaa's
1 heaping tspn beta alanine
1 heaping teaspoon creatine mono
1packet crystal lite
1 scoop malto
1 litre water

drink half 10min prior to training....sip the balance while training.

As for glutamine it may be great for gut health but for anabolic purposes most agree now its effects are negligible.

[Talo]

So how many g's of BCAA's is a heaping tspn ? 5-10 g ?

[Praetorian]

I would estimate 10g per heaping tspn.
P

[#8]

In my experience with weighing out powders, a heaping teaspoon is never more than 6-7 grams. Just an FYI. I have weighed out A LOT of small powder portions for pre workout cocktails.

[Thorgrim]

I am a fan of BCAA's. I take them first thing in the morning, pre-workout and then keep some with me so if something comes up and I run out of pre-prepared food or if I am over at family or friends I can spike the protein content and quality of whatever I have to eat.

The difference isn't huge but is noticeable. I think I heard somewhere that your body can manufacture glutamine form BCAA's.

[TT Eric]

Personally I found out BCAA and glutamine effective on those that overtrain easily (and loose their results if they do not rest enough). I experienced it myself. Even if they are found in any protein shake, to take some while you train always seemed effective to me.

Eric

[massabsamurai]

Hey P,

A while ago you wrote the following which made a lot of sense:

"Pure water, if you are training intensely you dont want anything in your stomach or trying to digest anything....it is counter productive...the idea is to have all the blood going to your muscles. Not to mention it takes 72 full hours to get into ketosis...what does this mean...well this means your body has enough glycogen to last 72 hours...
P

If you really need to...heres and idea...30 min prior to training have a source of aminos ie whey isolate with some carbs...malto/waxy maize and possibly some type of preworkout drink like SuperPump etc...that way it will be in your system prior to training and fully available...not digesting in the middle of your workout."


What made you give poliquin's theory a try (BCAA's intra-workout)? And do you notice any indigestion issues for BCAAs? Thanks for ur input!

[JMP]

BCAA while training followed by BCAA in postworkout shake , im finding ( been on now 1 month) that my recovery seems better , however i have gained approx 8lbs with little or no change to my diet. Im not sure the two are linked ( P or anyone else feel free to jump in with your thoughts) perhaps just weird timing. This seems to be contrary to what I have read about weight gain and BCAA ....thoughts ?

[TT Eric]

BCAA while training followed by BCAA in postworkout shake , im finding ( been on now 1 month) that my recovery seems better , however i have gained approx 8lbs with little or no change to my diet. Im not sure the two are linked ( P or anyone else feel free to jump in with your thoughts) perhaps just weird timing. This seems to be contrary to what I have read about weight gain and BCAA ....thoughts ?

Fat or muscle ? When I took BCAA I took some muscle weight, in my case I'm sure it prevent me from cannibalizing my own muscle. I was easily overtrainning.

Eric

[JMP]

Thats a good point TT Im not big on BF% , i more so gauge by the mirror and look ....im feeling more full (muscle) both working out and afterwards. I would think 8lbs is alot over a month though .....

[TT Eric]

Indeed. But it still could be 'recuperation' if you were overtraining. In my case, I was training 6 days a week, sick or not, about 2hrs each time, very intense, no proteins shake for about 1 year, I was so overtrained (not realizing), that when I stop for one week, I took 6 pounds of LBM straight. Same thing when I decided to add protein shake before and after my training, I took about 5lbs in 2 week IIRC, it was so amazing. Back then I was learning the hard way.

Eric

[mambo#5]

Anyone else had trouble getting powdered BCAA's (cdnprotein) to mix in properly? Mine always beads up and sits in the shake as little balls - it's gross tasting enough but got so bad I figured it wasn't worth the aggro.

[Praetorian]

Hey P,

A while ago you wrote the following which made a lot of sense:

"Pure water, if you are training intensely you dont want anything in your stomach or trying to digest anything....it is counter productive...the idea is to have all the blood going to your muscles. Not to mention it takes 72 full hours to get into ketosis...what does this mean...well this means your body has enough glycogen to last 72 hours...
P

If you really need to...heres and idea...30 min prior to training have a source of aminos ie whey isolate with some carbs...malto/waxy maize and possibly some type of preworkout drink like SuperPump etc...that way it will be in your system prior to training and fully available...not digesting in the middle of your workout."


What made you give poliquin's theory a try (BCAA's intra-workout)? And do you notice any indigestion issues for BCAAs? Thanks for ur input!

Very true...and ive always just had pure water...so i was skeptical at first and wasnt sure how my stomach would respond. However I have had no issues and because its very few calories...bcaa+beta+creatine+crystal lite it really doesnt seem much different then just crystal lite with water anyway. Sometimes Ill add the malto others i wont...depends on how many carbs ive eaten for the day prior to training...im also trying to see the difference and if its noticeable.
P

[Praetorian]

Indeed. But it still could be 'recuperation' if you were overtraining. In my case, I was training 6 days a week, sick or not, about 2hrs each time, very intense, no proteins shake for about 1 year, I was so overtrained (not realizing), that when I stop for one week, I took 6 pounds of LBM straight. Same thing when I decided to add protein shake before and after my training, I took about 5lbs in 2 week IIRC, it was so amazing. Back then I was learning the hard way.

Eric

It wasnt 6lbs of LBM it was your body recovering and basically filling glycogen stores more efficiently.
P

[Praetorian]

Personally I found out BCAA and glutamine effective on those that overtrain easily (and loose their results if they do not rest enough). I experienced it myself. Even if they are found in any protein shake, to take some while you train always seemed effective to me.

Eric

Over training is a CNS issue not muscular so BCAA or Glutamine wouldnt help.
P

[Praetorian]

Anyone else had trouble getting powdered BCAA's (cdnprotein) to mix in properly? Mine always beads up and sits in the shake as little balls - it's gross tasting enough but got so bad I figured it wasn't worth the aggro.

You need to put it in shaker cup and shake well...over time they will dissolve.
P

[mambo#5]

You need to put it in shaker cup and shake well...over time they will dissolve.
P

:) Thanks P. I just figured I'd either gotten a bad batch or the water was too hot (trying to dissolve Creapure fully). Powder is still better than the pills though right ?

[TT Eric]

Over training is a CNS issue not muscular so BCAA or Glutamine wouldnt help.
P

Unless you're lacking of recovery time from all the muscle breakdown from training ? In those time, 20 years ago, I did not know about the catabolic state after training, so no GI carbs/protein after training, in fact in those time I was taking nothing beside protein bars once in a while and I was training very intensely, basically was sore everyday of the week, year long.

Eric

[Praetorian]

Not having high GI carbs and protein hake after training doesnt necessarily mean you arent recovering...even in Arnolds time they rarely had PWO shakes etc...they just ate alot of regular food. Soreness also is not an indicator of recovery or over training. If your CNS was depressed then taking time off basically resting and eating would allow the body to fill out and utilize macor nutrients more efficiently.
P

[Acer]

I take 5G First thing in the morning with water.

Sip Tru 10G during work out.

[Jeff]

Does anyone have some input on if BCAA's can be damaged by heat? Due to the poor mixing of Leucine I have been making a preworkout Tea :o I mix 5-10g leucine or BCAA in warm/hot water and stir. Curious if this effects the bcaa at all? thanks .. also heres a pic of 5g of leucine before, and then mixed.. mixes up totally clear.