High protein/high fat/low carb offseason?

[FitnessModel45]

Hey P,

I recently watched the movie Fathead and was interested in how you feel about "low carb offseason diets"? Are carbs necessary to make good quality gains in the offseason? Would it be bad for the body to reach a point where it is ketoacidic during the offseason? Also, I know you are an advocate of keto dieting when preparing for a contest, but if one were to utilize the "low carb offseason approach", how would one transition into a carb cycling contest diet? (or would their only option be to do keto seeing how they are already consuming high protein/mod-high fat/low carb) Thank you in advance. :)

FM

[z83]

interesting
subscribed

[Canadian Protein.com]

I actually cannot wait to watch this! I've heard very interesting things about it!

[Praetorian]

Ive posted the link to Fathead a few times...here it is again.

http://ganjavideo.com/fat-head-2009_11336.html

I believe lower carb off season diets are much more beneficial to BB than high carb ones. Too many people eat too many carbs and really dont need to. Carb sensitivity in most causes alot of unwanted fat gain, higher insulin levels and alot of inflammation. It is becoming increasingly more popular to utilize carbs more effectively ie targeted around training thus avoiding unnecessary fat gain, maintaining optimal performance and avoiding many health issues. Many such as Chris Aceto, Charles Poliquin, etc now advocate very low carb off season. I have tried both methods and can honestly say I feel and perform much better on a low carb off season then a higher one. I avoid starches altogether except immediately pre training 90% of my carb intake comes from trace, veggies, some fruits, and a bit of starch say 30g or less prior to training. I also use malto post workout.
I utilize keto diets as one tool in my arsenal it is not the only one as many clients can confirm. Whether you use keto or low carb dieting you still transition slowly into the diet. Fat levels are lower during pre contest and carbs are reduced as well...if needed to induce fat loss. Its just a matter od making a few changes from off season to pre contest. Some carbs are necessary to make muscular gains...you cannot run keto and make any substantial gains. You will not become ketoacidic unless you are diabetic and are not monitoring yourself.
P

[#8]

What is "lower carb" in the off season for someone between 200-230ish?

Roughly 200g a day timed around training? 150g?

[z83]

What is "lower carb" in the off season for someone between 200-230ish?

Roughly 200g a day timed around training? 150g?

good question...i'd also like to know what's considered low carbs ?

i'm holding lot of water and maybe gained some fat with 2x 7oz sweet potato and 2x 2 protein scoop (30-35g total) of oats :(

[Praetorian]

It would be relative to your size...I am 255lbs right now and between 7-8% BF...my carb intake for the day averages approx 180g and that includes all trace carbs. My only direct carb sources are small sweet potato or apple for lunch and the same prior to training....with 1 scoop malto after training, handful of frozen berries in shakes, 1/2 banana in morning shake.

If most people were to add up their carb sources including trace carbs they would be well over what they think they are eating.
P

[Talo]

If you have on demand Fathead is there :)

[z83]

It would be relative to your size...I am 255lbs right now and between 7-8% BF...my carb intake for the day averages approx 180g and that includes all trace carbs. My only direct carb sources are small sweet potato or apple for lunch and the same prior to training....with 1 scoop malto after training, handful of frozen berries in shakes, 1/2 banana in morning shake.

If most people were to add up their carb sources including trace carbs they would be well over what they think they are eating.
P

Hey P,

What are your macro ? how many meals ?

no oats, ezekiel bread, rice ?

I'm eating sweet potato too as well as oats for breakfast and pwo shake...better option than oats ?

[Praetorian]

6-7 meals including PWO shake. 50-60g pro + 35-40g fat + 10-30g carbs (PWO=50g carbs)
No wheat products so no oats, no rice i dont really like it much...for PWO you can still use Malto or Vitargo.
P

[Delt King]

It would be relative to your size...I am 255lbs right now and between 7-8% BF...my carb intake for the day averages approx 180g and that includes all trace carbs. My only direct carb sources are small sweet potato or apple for lunch and the same prior to training....with 1 scoop malto after training, handful of frozen berries in shakes, 1/2 banana in morning shake.

If most people were to add up their carb sources including trace carbs they would be well over what they think they are eating.
P


Agreed! I'm not 250 (yet lol) more like 200 at 6-7% bf and my carb intake is about 80-100g day (including all the trace carbs) or 140 if you include fiber (which you shouldn't)...Best offseason ever and continuing to gain slowly but surely and staying lean. (carb load once per week seems to do the trick)

[z83]

carbs for breakfast, pre/post WO ?

only fruits as carbs for breakfast ?

what kind of fats are you using ? ....whole eggs, nuts, olive oil, almond/peanut butter ?

very interesting topic P !

[Praetorian]

carbs for breakfast, pre/post WO ?

only fruits as carbs for breakfast ?

what kind of fats are you using ? ....whole eggs, nuts, olive oil, almond/peanut butter ?

very interesting topic P !


Carb sources are some fruits, veggies, trace carbs, and the odd sweet potato, malto post workout...and I did forget to mention i do have cheat meals sat and sun....so could be anything pancakes, pizza etc.

Fat sources are nuts, nut butters, olive oil, plenty of saturated fats from red meat(grass fed preferred), salmon(wild preferred), butter, whole eggs, if i could get raw milk on a regular basis I would use it as well
p

[#8]

when you say you eat "trace carbs" from your veggies and such, do you still count them toward your totals? Im having a hard time calculating how many trace carbs I am getting from the sweet peppers, brocolli, onions, zuchini, cucumbers, and other such leafy greens I use when I am cooking my fatty meats. I usually throw in around 200g of these twice a day in with the beef that I eat and use those for my trace carbs. If I work out I eat about 20-40g carbs in the form of a trail mix bar or two (so delish), then about 100g right after the workout of oatmeal and berries, but I may be switching the oatmeal to malto simply for convenience.

I suppose what I am asking is how do you calculate your trace carbs to figure out if they are affecting your totals? I was always under the impression that raw, leafy greens such as brocolli and also a few peppers here and there would not make a difference at the end of the day.

Do you actually weigh all your stuff out when using veggies? Do you calculate it on a website or something beforehand?

I make everything up in a big stir fry because I find its highly tolerable to eat. I have dieted before with really good success under london muscle but the foods were just so plain that I could barely get through them most of the time. I need more veggies for flavour in my red meat, Im willing to sacrifice carbs later in the day if I have to just to get my veggies in.

[Praetorian]

Its just after doing keto a few times yo get really used to counting all carbs and that includes veggies and trace carbs. Normally for veggies I would just measure them by the cup(chopped) doesnt have to be perfect. The only thing i weigh is protein. Trace carbs arent that much of an issue off season so i really just limit what i eat from direct carb sources...and also time those carbs around training.
P

[SuperQT]

Carb sources are some fruits, veggies, trace carbs, and the odd sweet potato, malto post workout...and I did forget to mention i do have cheat meals sat and sun....so could be anything pancakes, pizza etc.

Fat sources are nuts, nut butters, olive oil, plenty of saturated fats from red meat(grass fed preferred), salmon(wild preferred), butter, whole eggs, if i could get raw milk on a regular basis I would use it as wellp
Besides raw milk any other dairy you allow off season?

[Praetorian]

Cottage cheese and greek yogurt are all high in protein and tasty when mixed with a handful of berries etc.
P