Pickle Juice for Cramps

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Someone recently told me that pickle juice helps to ward off muscle cramps. Did a search and found a company that sells it and say it is backed by research. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19997012

What do you think?

28496

[YYZgeddylee]

interesting product

you could buy pickling/canning salt for about $2 a pound.
add it to your own beverages, works well.

[Delt King]

LOL i'll take the cramps thank you. Effing pickle juice...gross. :wtf

[steve_d]

LOL!! this brings back memories of my brother in 2001 cramping up in my appt building between prejudging and night show. He sat there screaming in agony, QUICK GET ME PICKLE JUICE....

That's awesome...

[drdnj]

LOL.....
Everytime I get ready for a show I CRAVE pickle juice. I have chugged it in the middle of the night many times.

[natenator]

LOL.....
Everytime I get ready for a show I CRAVE man juice. I have chugged it in the middle of the night many times.

O'RILLY!?:shock

[Praetorian]

Hate to break the news buts its the sodium in the juice that stops the cramping....ever take a look at how much sodium is in a pickle.
P

[ironwill]

LOL.....
Everytime I get ready for a show I CRAVE pickle juice. I have chugged it in the middle of the night many times.
Hey good to see ya back!!!!

[steve_d]

Hate to break the news buts its the sodium in the juice that stops the cramping....ever take a look at how much sodium is in a pickle.
P

pretty sure everyone already knew this! If not, then they must never have eaten a pickle before!

[ironwill]

pretty sure everyone already knew this! If not, then they must never have eaten a pickle before!

Good to see some things never change.....:gayfight

[steve_d]

Well...at first I just assumed it was common sense! But now I went back to the original post and clicked the article. Apparently its not common sense, since the article was a joke if you ask me!! "pickle juice this, pickle juice that"... I can't believe a researcher could actually publish something like this without actually explaining why the pickle juice had this effect. Hopefully its in the discussion somewhere. If not, then I guess its time for me to publish a study about how wathing tv helps lose weight, (and not mention how people were doing cardio while watching tv).

Anyway...I guess I should not assume people have common sense anymore, so...what P said, lol..

\oh... and what do they mean by:

"This effect could not be explained by rapid restoration of body fluids or electrolytes. "

I would say,. "of course it could be explained by that!"....if they can back that up somehow, then I guess we're all wrong, and that pickle juice is actually magic...and therefore no - it wasn't the sodium in it.

[Praetorian]

It is also not a clinical study so it really holds no merit.
P

[Felinecougar]

69C found me back stage at a show...asked me to help out one of her girls who was competing in Figure. No problem till her feet started cramping so bad that she couldnt' walk. Ok...i called out in the pump up room...who has a sports drink.. NO one. I asked Ashley..where is that jar of Pickles...Ash dug her hand into the bottom of the jar and gave her the last pickle...i had trail mix. Raisins....potassium. I dug out every last raisin and peanut I could.. It took us 15 min to there her severe muscle spasms under control back stage..she put on her heels and walked on stage pain free...

I also hear from the pros that their are medications used for restless leg syndrome that help with muscle spasms in the legs on stage..

[JacktheThriller]

Its crazy how many people dont realize cramps come from electrolyte imbalances

[steve_d]

P- you're a smart guy, which is why I find it odd you say a non-clinical study holds no merit.

I make a living by helping researchers (just like the ones who published this study) conduct their research. From the design to the final product. I know where you are coming from, since there are shitty research projects out their, trust me - I deal with it on a weekly basis -. But there are also some really important non-clinical studies that clinical studies are ultimately based on.

I don't really think the study in particular is really all that valuable, for other reasons, but its false to say a non clincal study holds no merit!

FC - that drug is called quinine. and for me it isn't that effective compared to adding a little extra sodium. nor is it approved for this use by the fda. I know others who feel it has helped them however. If you asked me, I would tell anyone to not rely on quinine but try to make sure they have everything else spot on during the final days. I battle with cramps, and have all my life - even before bodybuilding. It has everything to do with electrolytes, and the final week can affect people differently. IE, do the exact same thing and 1 person is cramp free while the other is dying each and every night trying to keep their legs from locking.

[Praetorian]

P- you're a smart guy, which is why I find it odd you say a non-clinical study holds no merit.

I make a living by helping researchers (just like the ones who published this study) conduct their research. From the design to the final product. I know where you are coming from, since there are shitty research projects out their, trust me - I deal with it on a weekly basis -. But there are also some really important non-clinical studies that clinical studies are ultimately based on.

I don't really think the study in particular is really all that valuable, for other reasons, but its false to say a non clincal study holds no merit!

FC - that drug is called quinine. and for me it isn't that effective compared to adding a little extra sodium. nor is it approved for this use by the fda. I know others who feel it has helped them however. If you asked me, I would tell anyone to not rely on quinine but try to make sure they have everything else spot on during the final days. I battle with cramps, and have all my life - even before bodybuilding. It has everything to do with electrolytes, and the final week can affect people differently. IE, do the exact same thing and 1 person is cramp free while the other is dying each and every night trying to keep their legs from locking.

Let me word it differently then...according to most in the scientific community unless a control group was used with unbiased samples then the results cannot be said to be statistically significant. You can take take two observational studies and they will 100% contradict each other but the results from each study actually support the hypothesis...ie two observational studies one shows that smoking increases your risk of cancer the other shows it decreases it...both cannot be true.
P

As for cramping generally the issue is electrolyte imbalance mainly a lack of sodium.. or the balance between sodium and potassium. Quinine Sulftate has been used extensively in BB in the past mainly when oral lasix was used. Not many use oral lasix anymore because of the lack of control...most will use lasix IV or a different diuretic that doesnt affect electrolytes as much ie Dyazide. Sugar free tonic water is a natural form of quinine which can be used in conjunction to reintroducing sodium.

[steve_d]

Let me word it differently then...according to most in the scientific community unless a control group was used with unbiased samples then the results cannot be said to be statistically significant. You can take take two observational studies and they will 100% contradict each other but the results from each study actually support the hypothesis...ie two observational studies one shows that smoking increases your risk of cancer the other shows it decreases it...both cannot be true.
P


Ok, I am pretty much in agreement. I think I know what you're trying to say and you're 100% correct. True, an RCT is often thought of as the gold standard... (Meta anlalysis in my opinion should be the gold standard although is by definition pooling many RCTs- if anyone is interested check http://meta-analysis.ning.com/group/Bigpicture/forum/topics/is-a-rct-really-the-gold?xg_source=activity which references some of my old colleagues work)

But just as an FYI, statistical significance has nothing to do with how biased a study is. It is a mathematical concept. Ie, things can be statistically significant no matter how biased your samples are. In fact, the more bias there is, the more likely things WILL be statistically significant. If something is statistically significant, but the study was flawed, all we can say is that the study was flawed, and results aren't to be trusted. Usually such studies never get published in reputable journals. In fact, even studies with the greatest design have a hard time getting published when you have reviewers doing their job right. (of course, others go overboard with the reviewing process and simply don't want to accept anything unless they used their own methods, but I won't go there).

Because of this review process, you hope that the example of 2 observational studies showing opposite results won't happen. In all likelihood, one was severly flawed, and thus did not get published. Point is: a properly conducted observational study is often the only feasible way of conducting specific research ideas. The only reason I am pointing this out is because more and more I see the misconception that research is never to be trusted because ' you can show what you want ' depending how you look at the data. While true, that doesn't mean all researchers are brain dead. Many are, but many aren't! For those of us that aren't. we can in fact produce completely relevent information without going to the RCT.

[ironwill]

lol

[Praetorian]

Ok, I am pretty much in agreement. I think I know what you're trying to say and you're 100% correct. True, an RCT is often thought of as the gold standard... (Meta anlalysis in my opinion should be the gold standard although is by definition pooling many RCTs- if anyone is interested check http://meta-analysis.ning.com/group/Bigpicture/forum/topics/is-a-rct-really-the-gold?xg_source=activity which references some of my old colleagues work)

But just as an FYI, statistical significance has nothing to do with how biased a study is. It is a mathematical concept. Ie, things can be statistically significant no matter how biased your samples are. In fact, the more bias there is, the more likely things WILL be statistically significant. If something is statistically significant, but the study was flawed, all we can say is that the study was flawed, and results aren't to be trusted. Usually such studies never get published in reputable journals. In fact, even studies with the greatest design have a hard time getting published when you have reviewers doing their job right. (of course, others go overboard with the reviewing process and simply don't want to accept anything unless they used their own methods, but I won't go there).

Because of this review process, you hope that the example of 2 observational studies showing opposite results won't happen. In all likelihood, one was severly flawed, and thus did not get published. Point is: a properly conducted observational study is often the only feasible way of conducting specific research ideas. The only reason I am pointing this out is because more and more I see the misconception that research is never to be trusted because ' you can show what you want ' depending how you look at the data. While true, that doesn't mean all researchers are brain dead. Many are, but many aren't! For those of us that aren't. we can in fact produce completely relevent information without going to the RCT.


The trouble with observational studies is that the samples are not always representative of the population...you tend to get biases either by human error or lets say other means.
P



I think youd agree that the take away here would be not that OS or researchers should not be trusted but that you have to look at these things with an open mind and question them...in other words use your brain....do not just take things at face value.

[JacktheThriller]

this feels like my experimental principles class LMAO