Any TRT friendly docs in Ottawa/Gatineau area or even anywhere in Ontario/Quebec?

[Andre Gregoire]

Hey Guys,

Just found out that I have pretty low test levels, I was sent for a second test this time Test & Free test by my Urologist. Waiting for results.

I have been off gear for over 7 years, did proper PCT back then and have never had my test levels checked before. My test read 8.8 nmol/L which is the very bottom of the range. Pretty shitty since I lead a pretty healthy lifestyle, diet, hardcore training, vita D, Fish oil, Zinc, Mag, etc...

Any one find a good endo in this neck of the woods?

Thanks,

Andre

[RagingRandy]

Google andropause ottawa
You should find all you need.

[Andre Gregoire]

Thanks for the reply, I tried that and only came up with 1 legit doc who actually got his MD license suspended for performing circumcisions in his office under unsanitary conditions. He also has terrible ratings on Rate my MD.

Most of the search results point to research or articles and any practitioner that comes up is some variation of a naturopath and you have to pay for oral tests instead of blood work and then they put you on supplements not real HRT. The oral test are like 200$ each, the supps are 1000$ for 6 months, seems like a scam to me.

I am going to ask to be referred to an Endo in time but I was wondering if people had any recommendations. I have gotten some by Email but they are all in the GTA which is about a 6hr drive for me.

[dan1977]

Damn it, he was supposed to keep that confidential...

[Andre Gregoire]

Damn it, he was supposed to keep that confidential...

About your failed circumcision? Sorry buddy, I guess I shouldn't have shared the bit about your dong being half mutilated lol

[cog]

I don't see how you could maintain your muscle mass if your test is actually that low.

[natenator]

I don't see how you could maintain your muscle mass if your test is actually that low.

Muscle, estrogen, depresion, cognitive function from low energy, low energy, fat storage

The list goes on

[Andre Gregoire]

You have to remember that I have been off for over 7 years. In the first year or two my physique degraded the most, in years 3-5 it kind of stayed the same. Since I have endomorphic tendencies I maintained my weight on the scale but slowly got fatter while I lost muscle. It's easier to be in denial that way, you don't really notice it.

After a while you don't really remember how it felt to be on and you figure things are back to normal. In the first 5 years I was off, I completely stopped acting like a bodybuilder, after 11 years of dedication to the sport I decided I had pissed my life away long enough and focused on improving my marriage, starting a family, advancing my career, buying a house, etc...

I kept working out 2-3 times per week but not with any real intensity and I was eating like an average Joe, 3 square meals per day, no more protein powders, even started having a coffee and a muffin at coffee breaks like every other normal person then my son was born and I realized that I was fat and had to get back to a healthy lifestyle for health and longevity.

I began taking bodybuilding seriously about 2 years ago and gained back about 10lbs of muscle, so even with my low test levels I was able to rebuild some muscle. Now I am very meticulous with my diet and train my ass off, take lots of natural supps and much more dedicated then I was when I was juicing but obviously the results are no where near what they were before. I have restricted calories for probably 70% of those 2 years to get leaner and it works a bit but its much harder then ever before.

When the doc gave me the results, it started making a lot of sense. I used to be such a calm person but I have been so short tempered, at work I used to be very motivated and a "high performer" now most of the time I feel like a procrastinating slacker at work. I have trouble concentrating and a few weeks back I even thought I had adult ADD. I also noticed that I am never really happy anymore. Most of the time I am neutral or cranky.

I think the results of the test were accurate but who knows, I was sent for another one so we will see how that goes.

Also, my wife and I want a second child so going on HRT at this point isn't even an option. If I had to chose, I would want to be put on Clomid/HCG until we get pregnant and then see how my test levels are, if they are still low then I would want TRT.

It's frustrating because I don't know if genetically I have always had low T levels or if I ****ed myself up using gear or HCG. Over the last year I have used D-Aspartic acid and I liked it for 2-3 weeks then felt like it was generating too many side effects, I think DAA is bad news. Also, I used Accutane back in 2004 and some studies show it messes with the HPTA.

[cog]

Sounds like a typical downhill ride.How old are you?

[Andre Gregoire]

Sounds like a typical downhill ride.How old are you?

I'm only 33.

[steve_d]

you mentioned taking alot of natural supps. Any idea if any of those could be responsible for suppressing natural test levels...

I know that there is so much crap out there these days that are questionable at best as to what is in it. You never know right?

[Andre Gregoire]

you mentioned taking alot of natural supps. Any idea if any of those could be responsible for suppressing natural test levels...

I know that there is so much crap out there these days that are questionable at best as to what is in it. You never know right?

That's a good point Steve. Since I wanted to compete in natural federations I always made sure all the supps that I purchased were not on the WADA banned list, also I only buy single ingredient supplements. I don't like proprietary formulas, I like to know exactly what I am taking and in which dose.

The year prior to the blood test I had used: creatine, bcaa's, leucine, r-ALA, Digestive Enzymes, Fish Oil, Vita D, caffeine, yohimbine, ephedrine, Zinc, Magnesium, D-Aspartic Acid and DIM.

Out of all of those Zinc, DAA and DIM are the only 3 that can affect the HTPA.

-Zinc deficiency causes test to drop, adequate zinc facilitates test production and spermatogenesis, shouldn't affect things negatively.

-DIM is found in broccoli and a natural anti-e, stimulates more efficient estrogen metabolism, converts "bad" estrogen to "good" estrogen, should affect things positively, hadn't used it in several months prior to blood test.

-DAA, this supplement might be the culprit, people are raving about it because of a study showing it increased test by 42% in 12 days. I have gone through a few bottles over the last year and the stuff works, in 2-3 days sex drive and aggression increase significantly, you even notice testicular fullness (sorry for the details) but after 3 weeks or so I started having itchy nips so stopped it. When you read the studies carefully you can see it not only increases Test but also progesterone, LH, GH, Prolactin and god knows what else.

The DAA was stopped 12 weeks before that blood test, I didn't know I was going to get my blood tested, things just fell like that. The second blood test was taken 6-7 weeks later so we will see if it's any different.

[Thorgrim]

I have been taking DAA for awhile now with no sides but I do notice a bit of a boost in sex drive and "fullness"

Went about 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off and am back on now.

I do make a point of staying away from soy and other processed foods that could increase estrogen levels though.

I suppose in some people DAA could boost certain hormones more then in others.

Have you had a full hormone panel done Andre? Or just test level? Would be interesting to know if your estrogen is a little on the high side to begin with which could be suppressing your test level and the DAA might just exacerbate the problem since it kind of increases everything.

[Andre Gregoire]

I have been taking DAA for awhile now with no sides but I do notice a bit of a boost in sex drive and "fullness"

Went about 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off and am back on now.

I do make a point of staying away from soy and other processed foods that could increase estrogen levels though.

I suppose in some people DAA could boost certain hormones more then in others.

Have you had a full hormone panel done Andre? Or just test level? Would be interesting to know if your estrogen is a little on the high side to begin with which could be suppressing your test level and the DAA might just exacerbate the problem since it kind of increases everything.

I am seeing a urologist for fertility so I didn't get a full panel done, only TEST, FSH, LH the first time. Test was low, FSH and LH were normal. He sent me for a second test, this time only TEST and Free Test. He's only really concerned about sperm count and low test. If I can get this worked out I will ask to be referred to an Endo and get a full panel done.

I have seen some guy post his blood work on a board while on DAA and post cycle and his prolactin levels were through the roof, his MD said they were higher than a lactating woman.

I know personally that I won't be using it again or recommending it but I am not sure it is what caused my problem. Like I said maybe I have had low test all my life or fried my leydig cells with too much HCG. Also, I had an inguinal hernia (groin) in 2005 and had to get operated for that. Later, I found that I had a varicocele in my left testicle which was causing me to be infertile. The varicocele was on the same side as the hernia and might have been caused by it. I am glad to say I got that fixed and 3 months later we had my Son. Varicocele are know to cause low testosterone.

So there's like a million reasons why my test can be low, I can't blame DAA but since the body works with negative feedback loops and DAA messes with a slew of hormones I think the body may initially raise Test but then tries to normalize things and that's when things start to get messed up. People using it might be better off to use it for short periods like 2 weeks then go off 4 weeks and do short cycles instead of longterm. I tried that on my second bottle and was getting crazy acne when I started a daa cycle and when I stopped a daa cycle. One thing is for sure, it's potent. I just think we need to understand it much more before it starts being used by everyone.

[Thorgrim]

I've used the Mucuna and noticed a boost in sex drive. Also now that I think about it when I was taking when I was very lean. It supposed to do is help people lean out and also increase test. Anyway I thought about it because one of the things it does is reduce prolactin. Anyway if your interested thought I would let you know a good quality extract seems to work pretty good.

http://www.muscle-health-fitness.com/prolactin-inhibitor.html


Mucuna pruriens:

Macuna Pruriens is well documented as being a prolactin inhibitor that has been studied alongside Bromocriptine and L-Dopa. (16)(17) Mucana pruriens prolactin lowering effects are well known amongst bodybuilders.

One study on 75 infertile men and 75 fertile men found that ‘treatment with M. pruriens significantly improved T, LH, dopamine, adrenaline, and noradrenaline levels in infertile men and reduced levels of FSH and PRL. Sperm count and motility were significantly recovered in infertile men after treatment.’(18)

5 grams per day dried mucana powder was used in the above study on infertile men. I’d recommend you try 1/2 to 3 teaspoons a day to lower prolactin.

If you buy the herb in concentrated supplement form follow the directions on the packaging – 600 mg is an commonly used dose. Many find that taking a dose of mucana pruriens about an hour before they go to bed improves sleep quality.

[Andre Gregoire]

I've used the Mucuna and noticed a boost in sex drive. Also now that I think about it when I was taking when I was very lean. It supposed to do is help people lean out and also increase test. Anyway I thought about it because one of the things it does is reduce prolactin. Anyway if your interested thought I would let you know a good quality extract seems to work pretty good.

http://www.muscle-health-fitness.com/prolactin-inhibitor.html

Thanks for the feedback bro. Macuna is one of those things I have researched and put on my "maybe" list. I think it might be banned by Health Canada though. At this time, I won't be taking any supps that will affect my hormones in anyway, I will work with my doc to try to get my sperm count up first and foremost and then try to get an endo referral and get a full hormonal profile and work with an endo to correct. If all else fails, back to self experimentation lol...

Thanks for the link too, lots of good info.

[Thorgrim]

Sounds like a good plan. Probably better to figure out exactly what is going on before you start messing with stuff. At least then you will have a base line to work off of.

[Andre Gregoire]

Went to doc yesterday. Looks like sperm count is normal but morphology is ****ed again like when I had a varicocele in my left nut, going to have to get that fixed again most likely.

My Test levels were even lower 4.6 nmol/L (range is 7.6 - 31.4) so I am below the low range. Last time I had the test it was about 11am and I got 8.8, this time it was 2-3pm.

Free test is 11.1 pmol/L (range is 31.0 - 94) so I am about 3 times lower than low range.

Doc wanted to put me on androgel and I refused by giving him a list of excuses, I told him I wanted injectible instead. He prescribed me 200mg of Test every other week. I tried to get him to agree to 100mg every week instead but he said that it's more convenient to get it every other week and the CSLC nurses probably aren't available every week.

So I have a script and will start HRT most likely Thursday night, I reminded him that I am trying to get my wife pregnant and he feels it wont affect my fertility at this low dose. Two months after I get started I am getting Test/ Free test done again and the sperm test also to see if anything has changed.

I have mixed feelings about this, happy that it will probably correct my mood/concentration and will help slightly with my gym efforts but nervous about it lowering my fertility, having to do this for the rest of my life and having a urologist instead of a qualified endo following me.

My doc didn't do a full blood panel and won't be monitoring Hematocrit levels, cholesterol, estrogen, etc... at least not yet. To keep this up long term I need to be referred to an endo I guess, my only concern is that many endo's don't seem open to young men (33yrs old) being on TRT for life.