dosage help

[L3]

Hey all,

I've been thinking about my first cycle for a while now, and I would like to get some input on the dosage. I'll be doing a 13 week oral only, but i have my liver protection all lined up, i'll try to be as clear as possible in my explanation :).

weeks 1-4

m1t (5mg, 7.5mg, 7.5mg, 5mg)
Primobolan (***)
Proviron (***)
Oral Turinabol (***)


weeks 4-12

Primobolan (***)
Proviron (***)
Oral Turinabol (****)


week 13

Proviron (***)


As you can see i am front loading with some dirty M1t, but i would rather do that then dbol.

starting 2 weeks out

Milk Thistle
ALA
Dessecated Dehydrated Liver Tabs


i will cut out the Milk Thistle when i start for week 1-4 since i don't want it to breakdown the m1t, but i will start it again right after.

For PCT i have novla and clomid lined up, and depending on weather i experience some sides i may do HCG during the end of the cycle.

for those bro's who would suggest depots, i feel like if i were go go that route i would want to go all out in a year or two with some nice heavy duty stuff, plus i like the limited sides of these compounds (except for the m1t of course)

so basically, i'm looking for ideas on weather i should pyramid the other 3 compounds or if i should keep a constant dosage...

thanks for the help !

[St]

Everything looks good over all,but for m1t i would go with 1 tabs at 10mg.Also as for primo you won't be happy with it and i would go with anavar,but you may already have primo.As for t-bol i'm on just 60mg a day and nothing else and i'm looking very solid.As a over all cycle 8 week is the max for the kidney,and will put some strain on it,and your milk will not protect it from stress,just the liver.

[Mr.Freeze]

hmmm?

[St]

hmmm?

What you think GSP could win against Thiago Alves,in your dreams baby.:ht

[phatkid77]

Pretty Sure Two Orals Together=bad Idea!

[L3]

Smart-tony: i cant go 4 weeks with 10 mg ED..to much strain on the liver.

i also have other herbal remedies to help with the kidneys, and i already drink at least 1 liter of water an hr.

Also, i don't understand the ufc reference??

Phatkid: its actually 4 orals :P

thanks for the input!!!

[St]

Smart-tony: i cant go 4 weeks with 10 mg ED..to much strain on the liver.

i also have other herbal remedies to help with the kidneys, and i already drink at least 1 liter of water an hr.

Also, i don't understand the ufc reference??

Phatkid: its actually 4 orals :P

thanks for the input!!!

Ya 1 tab will be fine for the m1t.

I worked in a health food store and there isn't nothing that can protect your kidney's,they try to sell shit,but don't throw your money away.I even seen a kidney doctor here in ottawa DR,Zimmerman cute lady and that was from d-bol and she said there is any meds by any pharm company that could protect the kidney's and this back in 2001,it a chance you take with longer cycle's of oral,but anavar could get you a 12 week or more,and primo is safe.

the ufc is a joke for mr_freeze for the great advice.:)

[IronRobi]

Where to start on this one.....

1) It's your first cycle, you don't need 4 different substances to get results
2) No matter how much liver protectant you have, you're looking to take 4 orals!!
3) If you do start experiencing sides, how do you know which of the 4 is causing it? Do you start guessing and playing with dosages 1 at a time? Or do you stop all 4 completely? What do you do?
4) It's your first cycle!!!

I'm a firm believer that a first cycle should be test only. This is because Test should be the base of all future cycles. It gives you a chance to understand how you react, so when you add something to it you will know the effects test has on you and can rule that out when trying to figure out what is giving you those horrible sides.

Test E - 250mg/week - 12 weeks

That's it, all you need. You may be worried if you pin you'll want to do "heavy duty stuff" in a year or 2.... This is all "heavy duty stuff". These are some very powerful hormones that you are putting in your body. If you think you are not going to be responsible enough to be safe at it, forget the idea completely and go buy yourself some creatine. This is your body and your health, it is not a game.

[L3]

IronRobi:

There is a very good reason why i'm doing these 4 substances. At first, i was gonna do the Primo, Tbol and Pro w/out the m1t. Then i realized i would only see substantial gains after about 4 weeks, so i decided to front load with m1t. I want to KEEP these gains. I know i am guaranteed at least 15 lbs for the rest of my life with this cycle, as opposed to maybe 20+ while i'm on test and maybe 10 when i come off.

I'm sorry that you believe a first cycle should be test only. I realize that i will never see as good gains on my 1st one after that, so why not go all out? I would like to keep my gains, hence the length of the cycle and the substances I've chosen.

When i talk about this heavy duty stuff, i think i may have used the wrong words. How about deca-dick? Or backne? Or adrogenic hair loss? From all the literature i've read, none of these compounds have been known cause that, in fact, i'm pretty sure straight test can and does cause all of those.......

You make a very valid point about doing it one compound at a time to gauge the effect of the different compounds. But hey, don't we all take chances putting this stuff into our bodies that has been manufactured in UG's all over Europe and Asia without any quality control? I'm willing to take this risk even if i don't learn anything about my body this time..

My very least intention is to seem like a flamer, but i asked for dosage advice (which tony has kindly provided).. i didn't ask to be told to mind my health and eat some creatine monohydrate. I personally find that offensive.

please don't tell me it's an 'effin game.

thanks bro

[GTZ3]

WTF...? Primo, m1t, Tbol, and proviron @ the same time.

Sucks to be your hairline, excretory organs, and gastrointestinal tract .... not to mention your lipid profile.

If you gona run an oral only keep it simple.

BTW are you in highschool?

[wrought]

When i talk about this heavy duty stuff, i think i may have used the wrong words. How about deca-dick? Or backne? Or adrogenic hair loss? From all the literature i've read, none of these compounds have been known cause that, in fact, i'm pretty sure straight test can and does cause all of those.......


Well I'm pretty sure that everybody is different, some get the sides, some don't, and you'll never know how your body will react until you use the compound.

Tony was giving you sound advice, but so was ironrobi. IMO you're better off with a low dose of test, but if you do go with the orals the M1T will be toxic and the proviron is pretty much pointless, better to go with var, but since it sounds like you've already made your mind up and are pretty sure you know what you're doing.... well, have fun. :)

[L3]

gtz3: i finish my bcom in the fall semester.. what does my education level have to do with it?

can you please explain about the hairline? i wasn't aware that any of those had an effect on it...

wrought: i am counting on the proviron to keep my muscles nice and hard and also take care of any androgenic effects that may pop up


please check out www.striated.tk ... its a training guide/program i created and i'll be using it for the cycle.

seriously boys, i'm not a tool
actually, only this community seems to be having some issues with this cycle. i've talked to three other experienced individuals who were very impressed with this cycle, their only issues was the m1t..... and no, they weren't my sources :P

[Houstonbc]

seems pretty dumb buddy. sorry but it is real dumb you cant justify a cycle like that get 1 20ml bottle of test and youll see WAY better gains and save a pile of money

[Freebsd1977]

The original poster might be pulling our chain too. :moon:yeah

[L3]

you're right about the pile of money i'd be saving.... but id rather take advantage of more advanced reserach chems... ill be def posting before and after pics so we'll all be able to judge if it was worth it :D

[fathead]

listen to the above advice. this is a very poor plan. its good to see that youve put thought into this but unfortunately youve made some bad decisions.

I share your concern with side effects completely, problem is that the drugs you have picked have some of the worst side effects there are.

m1t is brutally toxic and if you are worried about your hair and skin and stay away from m1t, primo and proviron, they are not hair healthy at all.

Running those drugs without testosterone will result in "deca dick" for many users

if you want something mild, and are unwilling to do injections, use anavar or oral turnibol.

AND- youre not going to gain or maintain anywhere near the mass you hope to on this cycle

[thelittleguy]

if he doesn't want to take good advise... let him take all of those orals and see him come back crying in a few weeks when his stomach is bothering him. :wtf

[L3]

fathead: thank you for the input. so in your opinion,

test depot sides for 10 wks < m14 for 4 wks , proviron & primo sides for 12 wks ?

please boys, don't get me wrong, i dont want to do a "mild" supplement. i might as well get as much possible from my 1st cycle... but i have two issues;

1 - speeds of gains, i do not want an exposion of mass in under 3 weeks
2 - keeping the gains post cycle requires a longer cycle

the info ive looked at shows that the primo, tbol produce sutainable gains over an extended period of time..the m1t was just thrown in there as a frontload since i would like to see some impressive results off the bat, and the Primo, and Tbol would carry them on for the rest of the cycle while the Pro cuts me...

fathead, the other thing that really bothered me is you saying that i wont gain as much mass on the cylce... currently my diet is 95&#37; perfect for my body weight (eating every 2.5 hrs 50+g protein and enough calories, carbs and fats), i just plan on doubling the amount of food i eat during...expected case i was looking for 20lbs during and 15 lbs post, best case 5+ pounds on that...

From BigCat's Profile on Primo


- methenolone is very mild on the system. Probably the reason why both are strongly favored as base compounds in stacks. Methenolone has no estrogenic side-effects whatsoever, on account of its structure. Its effects on the cholesterol levels are barely noticeable.
- Methenolone is also not overly suppressive of the HPT axis (endocrinal axis for the production of natural testosterone).


From BigCat's Profile on Proviron


-Methenolone is also not overly suppressive of the HPT axis (endocrinal axis for the production of natural testosterone).
-using it throughout a longer cycle (10-12 weeks) of injectables may elevate liver values a little bit, though much, much less than one would expect with a 17-alpha-alkylated steroid.



I do apologize for only providing one source (i've consulted more) but i dont really want to go to any flagged sites while at work.

So, fathead, now that you have me thinking and reading over all this stuff again, would it be a better call to cut out the m1t and do a long release test depot? I had some intial concerns since when i stop the m1t ill be totally shut off.. for 8 weeks aka no more morning salutes.

I really do appreciate your help man!

thelittleguy: bro, a little stomach pain really doesn't bother me. this is my current daily supplement schedule:

6:00am – Wake Up

Vitamin A 10 000UI
CoEnzyme Q10 1 Pill
Vitamin E 400UI
CalTrate Plus 1500MG
Vitamin C 500MG Folic Acid 1MG
Vitamin D 1000UI
Ecanecia 2000MG
CLA 1250MG
Glucosamine 1000MG
Green Tea Extract 1 Pill
Milk Thistle 1 pill

6:30am – Post Insulin Spike

Taurine 2000MG
BCAA 1 Pill
Tribulus Extract 1500MG
Creatine Ethyl Ester 2250MG
12:00pm – Lunch
CLA 1250MG
BCAA 1 Pill
Green Tea Extract 1 Pill

3:30pm – 60mins Pre Workout

Tribulus Extract 2250MG
Folic Acid 1MG
BCAA 2 Pills
Glucosamine 500MG
Vitamin E 400UI
CoEnzyme Q10 1 Pill
Vitamin C 500MG

4:10pm – 25mins Pre Workout

Tribulus Extract 2250MG
Omgea 369 1250MG
BCAA 1 Pill
Potassium 50MG
Taurine 2000MG
PVL Cutter 2 Pills
Creatine Ethyl Ester 6750MG
Ecanecia 2000MG
L-Arginine 4500MG

5:45pm – 15mins Post Workout

Taurine 2000MG
BCAA 1 Pill
Creatine Ethyl Ester 2250MG

7:00pm – Dinner

CLA 1250MG
BCAA 1 Pill
Glutamine 5G
Milk Thistle 1 pill

11:30 – Pre Bed

BCAA 1 Pill
Omega 369 1250MG
Glutamine 5G
Tribulus Extract 750MG
Vitamin C 500MG


I just got my liver values done and they were right on the top range, but thats to be expected since i wasn't taking any milk thistle before i took the tests. When im ON, i wont have any need for this garbage so i'll only be supplementing with Milk Thistle, ALA, hawtorne berry, garlic, dessecated liver, conenzyme q10 and maybe some niacine...

[Houstonbc]

test depot 500mg / wk 12wks
you should get your 20lbs and keep 10 if your eating nd training is good p/c
this is a way better 1st cycle than what you have here
take your m1t 10-20mg/ day for the first 4 weeks if you want to
do this save your cash, kidneys and liver and you will thank us later!

[IronRobi]

IronRobi:

There is a very good reason why i'm doing these 4 substances. At first, i was gonna do the Primo, Tbol and Pro w/out the m1t. Then i realized i would only see substantial gains after about 4 weeks, so i decided to front load with m1t. I want to KEEP these gains. I know i am guaranteed at least 15 lbs for the rest of my life with this cycle, as opposed to maybe 20+ while i'm on test and maybe 10 when i come off.

I'm sorry that you believe a first cycle should be test only. I realize that i will never see as good gains on my 1st one after that, so why not go all out? I would like to keep my gains, hence the length of the cycle and the substances I've chosen.

When i talk about this heavy duty stuff, i think i may have used the wrong words. How about deca-dick? Or backne? Or adrogenic hair loss? From all the literature i've read, none of these compounds have been known cause that, in fact, i'm pretty sure straight test can and does cause all of those.......

You make a very valid point about doing it one compound at a time to gauge the effect of the different compounds. But hey, don't we all take chances putting this stuff into our bodies that has been manufactured in UG's all over Europe and Asia without any quality control? I'm willing to take this risk even if i don't learn anything about my body this time..

My very least intention is to seem like a flamer, but i asked for dosage advice (which tony has kindly provided).. i didn't ask to be told to mind my health and eat some creatine monohydrate. I personally find that offensive.

please don't tell me it's an 'effin game.

thanks bro

I'm not trying to be rude or offend you. Just make you realize the decisions you're making. You are right when you say we all take chances putting this stuff into our bodies, but I really like to keep the odds in my favor as much as possible. I try to be very smart about it. And for a first cycle, Test only is just about the smartest thing you can do. You don't even need a lot of it to get huge gains. You say you don't want instant results, use cypionate as it is the longest ester of the commonly available tests. Stay away from suspension or prop as they are known to act faster.

As for sides, yes you may get a pimple or two. Hell I have a huge ****er on my chin right now. Nothing a little cream and sun won't cure. But I can guarantee you that sides from a low dosage of test will be way less then sides from 4 orals.

The whole saying of "never see gains like your first cycle" is a very big myth in my opinion. As you get experience and start adding to your cycles, you will continue to see great gains. If your PCT is in check, and your eating enough to maintain your higher weight, you should retain a fair amount from any cycle. But remember, while you are runnin and the scale says 20lbs heavier, a good chunk of that is water retention so it's not a full 20lbs of muscle.

[GTZ3]

To put it simply ... in a 3 month double blind study 20mgs of anavar in HIV patients put 15 lbs of muscle (not total bodyweight) on them only lifting 3 times a week.

Why not run 40 mg anavar or 50-60 mg tbol alone?

*Ill sig bet anyone here, this kid is still in highschool ... guranteed

[L3]

hey man, i'm really not in highschool. i wouldnt be able to afford this gear if i was earning 12 $ a hr.

but i do like the anavar & tbol idea. actually, i like it alot.

should i run m1t for the first 4 weeks?

also, should the cycle still be 12 weeks?

what about if i ran the proviron after i dropped the m1t?

orrrrrrr

tbol wk 1-8
winstrol for 4-12 wks
anavar for 1-12 wks

i dunno if i can deal with the depot winstrol ED so they'll all be oral

[Xplode]

Legali3: Everyone here has given you great advice. They gave you this advice not because they know you and care about you (because they don't know you and probably don't give a rats ass about you) but because they are knowledgeable and truly love this hypothetical game. However, I assume you already knew this because you sought them out with your question and needed help with a cycle...

No matter ho much you read online, in books or "hear from a guy" you will not/cannot/should not dismiss these guys advice because until you experience it for yourself you are merely talking out of your ass.

I hope you seriously take the advice of test only or a test +1 cycle, but either way feel free to post your experience.

PS If you do need a new kidney or liver let me know...I need $25,000 up front ;)

[fathead]

youre giving some contradicting info here bro. first youre saying you dont want to gain too much too quickly then you are saying you want to use m1t to get some serious results right off the bat. if you dont want anyone to notice your on juice dont take m1t.

and yes, i feel that the sides of 10-12 wks test enanthate or cyp would be fewer than the sides of the cycle you outlined and i also think that the gains would be greater from the test cycle than your proposed one.

I wouldnt think you would gain 20lbs off of the cycle youre thinking of, but if you would, than youd gain 40lbs off of the test only cycle.

again, primo and proviron are NOT hair friendly drugs, and m1t is badass all the way around in terms of sides. Not that i have anything against these drugs but id never reccomend someone using them whos is concerned about skin or hair issues.

My suggestion would be one of the following:

test cyp/enanth 400-500mg/wk wks 1-10/12
or
test prop wks 1-8/10 400-500mg/wk (this is ideal in my mind as long as you can realistically handle the frequent injections)
or
anavar 50mg/day wks 1-whatever
or
tbol 50mg/day
or a combo of the 2

you will not gain 20lbs off of anavar/tbol however.

good luck

[tex]

you have a bachelor of commerce degree??? sweet...i have a bachelor's of science....chemistry to be exact :) 4 orals will rape your internals.......man up and shoot a low dose of test......300mg per week.....

[L3]

sorry boys i had to edit my flame post. i guess i get a little sensitive..

so now i'm thinking

anavar 50mg wk 1/12
tbol 50mg wk 1/12
winstrol 100mg e2d wk 1-8

objections? will milk thistle break down the winstrol like it does m1t?

[spiderman7]

I've been down this road before legaliz3. Listen to the people on here they are offering good advice. I tried several oral only cycles due to the fear of the needle. I then took the plunge and did a test only cycle of 400mg/ml a week. The gains I was left with have stayed. The feeling of being on test is awesome in comparison to any oral at least I felt that way. The gains I made while on oral only cycles, well most I was never able to keep. Most orals made me feel like shit. Recovery was just as easy if not better when on the test. Test is best.

[IronRobi]

You won't like me even more after this :laugh

I just read your intro thread and found out you are 20 years old and 173lbs. You have so much more natural potential before you even need to think about running a cycle. Wait a few years, get your diet in check and then consider it. But hey, what the hell do I know, I'm just the guy recomending a test only cycle. :a+ From my count we're only 7 of us who have suggested the same thing. If you are asking for advise, be prepared to take it.

[tex]

whats with the oral fixation? if you dont mind me asking........

[gsxr750]

I'm with the rest of them, Test 500mg/week for 12 weeks.

If you're afraid of needles then just run with Anavar or Tbol + creatine. My first cycle was just anavar at 40mg/day and I was pleased with the results.. nothing like test will give you though.

Listen to the advice you've been given.. it's almost all first hand experience.

[SiLvErBaK]

All good advice bro. I'd stay away from the orals altogether. The test only cycle is good advice. 500 mg/week cyp or enathate max. You will gain 20lbs easy, feel like a God, and come out on top all around. I am strongly against
the use of M1t for anyone at any time. Revamp your cycle, do some more research then come back to the drawing board. These guys aren't trying to be assholes, so for your own health and safety swallow your pride on this one and FOLLOW the advice here.

do a quick google on these items if u feel like....scarring(cirrhosis)of the liver, ldl/hdl ratios, renal faliure, and hpta.

good luck

[L3]

thank you all

i will get back to you with some results

[St]

sorry boys i had to edit my flame post. i guess i get a little sensitive..

so now i'm thinking

anavar 50mg wk 1/12
tbol 50mg wk 1/12
winstrol 100mg e2d wk 1-8

objections? will milk thistle break down the winstrol like it does m1t?

Hey all you would need max is 20-25mg of each oral, 3 compound together that 75 a day of oral more than enough all i'm on right now is 60mg of t-bol and making amazing gains.Your cycle reminds when i first started gear all i want to do was orals,but as time when on i found the strenght to take the injection pain.After a few more cycle go with a injectable and one oral.