Deca for arthritis

[JifeLacket]

I have posted about arthritis a few times now, new question, anyone have arthritis and use deca?

I have osteoarthritis in both elbows, I know there is no miracle drug that will reverse the process but I would like to slow it down (and I still workout!). My doctor offered to inject synthetic synovial fluid but said that the injects could not be done very regularly. She has arthritis herself and said she has looked into treatment for years. She said the only thing out there is Adequan which is for horses and canines. It is becoming more regulated and you definitely cant get it in Canada (it may be only available in the US) without prescription (animal prescription not human). Its available in some states I think... Anyways that idea probably isn't going to work.

Deca is supposed to increase synovial fluid and I think there is some increase in collagen synthesis. It also drastically increases bone mineral content and density (from several studies I have read).

The only thing that would suck would be coming off... :(

Thoughts on this?

[cog]

I would bet 30 mg\week long term would do the job

[JifeLacket]

30mg or 300mg? I have read studies using 50mg but that was in women.

Also looking into the effects of GH, more so the IGF-1 released. Cartilage seems to like it.

EDIT: Decided to link direct to the studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11332605

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11196538

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11518284

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11922373

[bcaamuscle]

Adequan/aflutops would be a good choice, it's interesting how this stuff works in humans, is nothing more than sea creature oil, and we aren't allowed to have it. Big pharma wins again.

[JifeLacket]

^ Yea, I have read good things about Adequan. Definitely wouldn't be doctor supported and I would have to somehow get it from the US...

[cog]

30mg or 300mg? I have read studies using 50mg but that was in women.

Also looking into the effects of GH, more so the IGF-1 released. Cartilage seems to like it.

EDIT: Decided to link direct to the studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11332605

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11196538

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11518284

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=11922373

30 mg.300 long term and you can kiss your nuts goodbye.

[JifeLacket]

After several weeks of running 30mg I think I would end up just as shut down, no? I thought deca was super suppressive. I do think 300mg for long term would be too much though, ~150mg would be more realistic... But again I probably need to judge off my own experience in which I have non with this compound.

[cog]

I don't know if you would be shut down as hard as 300.That avi of yours reminds me of this chick I met years ago that kept a little gecko happily snuggled between her rather nice breasts.

[cog]

^ Yea, I have read good things about Adequan. Definitely wouldn't be doctor supported and I would have to somehow get it from the US...

It is interesting stuff.Sounds like magic.

[faller]

I started running Deca in conjunction with my HRT about a year ago at 90mg. a week with minimal success. When i bumped it up to 120mg. a week the world changed for me. How it would impact your arthritis i have no idea but honestly, what have you got to loose?

[Talo]

In what way did things change, Faller ?

[faller]

As some here may already know i've had a shoulder issue for about 18 months now. I took all of last summer off training in hopes of it healing but the time off made no difference.

Now i was takeing Deca at 90mg. for a long time with some success. My knee's definitely felt better as well as elbow pain, my shoulder however felt the same. I assumed it was a small tendon tear but when i went to see the physiotherapist he said it was my rotator.

What i did out of curiosity was up the Deca to 120mg. and within 5 weeks the shoulder pain was gone. I was still really hesitant to train shoulders though thinking that maybe it was just a temporary fluke. I'm on week 11 now, i have zero shoulder pain and last week for the first time in a long time i did 4 sets of military and 3 sets seated DB press.... Light weight mind you but OMG i was so stoked!!

[#8]

^^ perhaps stick to machine shoulder work for pressing from now on?

I find it much easier to avoid injury and aggravation of specific body areas (especially shoulders) if I stick to machine work that locks me into a relatively safe and stable ROM. This might help you safely achieve more training in areas that are injury prone.

[JifeLacket]

That's great to hear faller! From more reading I have done about peoples personal experience, ~150mg does seem to be perfect for joints. I have heard many guys say they feel almost nothing at 100mg joint wise so there seems to be a threshold dose for it to actually have effect on the joint(s).

If I can get my hands on Adequan i'll definitely run it, I'll see if family in the USA can order it to their house. In the mean time deca sounds promising.

[faller]

Its not looking promiseing LJ. I asked that question of our local guru Bigbench on another board and here was his response:


It really depends on the type of arthritis. For women, its usually great as its due to the fact that most of their arthritis is rheumatoid arthritis. This generally occurs when progesterone levels fall with age. This is also more of an inflammatory pain in the joints which can be fixed with added fluid retention. As for the most common form of arthritis, osteoarthritis, this is not the case. This type of arthritis is the most common and is much more so with athletes as its caused by wear and tear to the joints over years of work. It happens in the feet, ankles, knees, hands, elbows and shoulders. With this, the actual cartilage is destroyed which if gone, even fluid retention can not prevent pain. It will dull it somewhat as the bones can move with a bit more ease, but their not separated and pain will occur regardless.

So it really comes down to WHY your joints hurt. If its inflammation, it will do wonders. If its actual loss in cartilage, then it may not help at all

[faller]

^^ perhaps stick to machine shoulder work for pressing from now on?

I find it much easier to avoid injury and aggravation of specific body areas (especially shoulders) if I stick to machine work that locks me into a relatively safe and stable ROM. This might help you safely achieve more training in areas that are injury prone.

I've actually tried this at our gym, but the the equipment there is so bad it'll do more harm than good. Some of the angles your body has to be in to get that first rep started is an injury in itself waiting to happen. The guy who designed those has never worked out a day in his life i'm sure.

[Talo]

As some here may already know i've had a shoulder issue for about 18 months now. I took all of last summer off training in hopes of it healing but the time off made no difference.

Now i was takeing Deca at 90mg. for a long time with some success. My knee's definitely felt better as well as elbow pain, my shoulder however felt the same. I assumed it was a small tendon tear but when i went to see the physiotherapist he said it was my rotator.

What i did out of curiosity was up the Deca to 120mg. and within 5 weeks the shoulder pain was gone. I was still really hesitant to train shoulders though thinking that maybe it was just a temporary fluke. I'm on week 11 now, i have zero shoulder pain and last week for the first time in a long time i did 4 sets of military and 3 sets seated DB press.... Light weight mind you but OMG i was so stoked!!

My neighbour says the same thing. I've always thought about trying it out to see how it would help me. More so in the winter as that's when my joints really seem to take a beating due to the cold. But still haven't gotten the nerve to do it.

[JifeLacket]

Its not looking promiseing LJ. I asked that question of our local guru Bigbench on another board and here was his response:


It really depends on the type of arthritis. For women, its usually great as its due to the fact that most of their arthritis is rheumatoid arthritis. This generally occurs when progesterone levels fall with age. This is also more of an inflammatory pain in the joints which can be fixed with added fluid retention. As for the most common form of arthritis, osteoarthritis, this is not the case. This type of arthritis is the most common and is much more so with athletes as its caused by wear and tear to the joints over years of work. It happens in the feet, ankles, knees, hands, elbows and shoulders. With this, the actual cartilage is destroyed which if gone, even fluid retention can not prevent pain. It will dull it somewhat as the bones can move with a bit more ease, but their not separated and pain will occur regardless.

So it really comes down to WHY your joints hurt. If its inflammation, it will do wonders. If its actual loss in cartilage, then it may not help at all

That doesn't totally write osteoarthritis off. There is still major inflammation that occurs with osteo, and I still have some cartilage left. The fluid retention alone should theoretically help. Really, I think I need to try it myself, who knows how i'll react to it? I would probably kick myself later on for not trying it... If I can just really really really slow down and more wear and tear, not rebuild cartilage, i'll be VERY happy.

[faller]

i agree JL.. Deca will probably help preserve the remaining cartilage. I'd definitely give it a shot.

[IronMan]

I would look into DMSO if I were you! The stuff is amazing!!

[JifeLacket]

Where can you get it in Canada?

[faller]

Where can you get it in Canada?

I got mine at the health food store..

[JifeLacket]

Thanks boss. Looks like i'm going to try ~200mg test E 150mg deca and adjust accordingly. Definitely going to document this experience.

[faller]

I'd be very interested in how this turns out for you..

[Prisoner#22]

I would look into DMSO if I were you! The stuff is amazing!!

All it does is prevent the surrounding tissue from recieving enough oxygen, therby deadening the nerves in the area, much like ice does by freezing. Your body has no way of excreting the sulfer by-products of this other than through respiration, so you end up with really stinky breath, which has been known in the football world as 'death breath' for many, many years.

[Prisoner#22]

To add to this discussion, since I've been off gear now for the last 9 months which is my longest break since 2003 i think, I feel like I've aged 20 years. I get up in the morning and am sooo stiff, and sore. It takes a while to warm everything up. When I get pregnant I'm going back on for life... at least running some deca in the hrt thats for sure... test and deca for hrt.

[JifeLacket]

All it does is prevent the surrounding tissue from recieving enough oxygen, therby deadening the nerves in the area, much like ice does by freezing. Your body has no way of excreting the sulfer by-products of this other than through respiration, so you end up with really stinky breath, which has been known in the football world as 'death breath' for many, many years.

Good to know Prisoner. I try to stay away from fully blocking the pain, I need to know when the joints are hurting so I can take it easy. I will take an anti-inflammatory once I have felt the pain obviously, and then I will rest. I don't like the idea of popping a naproxin or something before working out and killing it in the gym and doing damage while I cant feel it. I would rather not deaden the nerves in the surrounding area, they are there for a reason.

That being said I know deca has some anti-inflammatory properties but that is not its sole method of action. I should start it in about a week so time will tell...

[JifeLacket]

test and deca for hrt.

Add HGH and that's the dream :p

[west]

Before seeing this thread I saw a post by Faller about his maintenance dose of 90mg of deca for joint pain, well about 3 weeks ago I started to run 100mg deca and my elbows and shoulder pain has been reduced to no pain, I have tennis elbow in my left arm and it is even helping that. I will see how this goes but I sure think that it is a good way to relieve joint pain for us old farts. I should thank you also Faller for bringing this to my attention bro Thanks again bud

Sean

[faller]

You're welcome west.

I see your new avi follows you where ever you go now. Very nice :)

[JifeLacket]

I'll keep this thread updated i'll be starting mon/tues. 200mg of both test and deca/ week to start off with.

[faller]

I'll be following this thread...

[tex]

ill be following as well....

[TopHatPlus]

I have had a bit of arthritis myself (over 18 joints since birth) and had some weird injections when i was a kid that was supposed to be the miracle do all to end all. It was exruciatingly painful and made it worse. The only thing i find helps is low impact cardio. Keep the joints limber.

[JifeLacket]

Just started today, delayed shipment. I'll probably update every week or so. I jabbed 200mg test and 100mg deca today, and from now on ill do 100mg of each 2x a week.

[JifeLacket]

Whats the consensus on test:deca ratio's to keep sex drive high/normal? My original plan was 200mg test 200mg deca...

I would like to run more deca then test to get more of its benefits, would I be okay with 200mg test 300 deca or is there major person to person variance?

[faller]

Why not try a lower dose of Deca to start with and slowly up the dose over time if you think you need too?

[JifeLacket]

You're right, I'll stick with the game plan for now. I am already noticing almost no pain (that deep aching joint pain) after workout, 110% not a placebo effect. I also grabbed 200g of glucosamine (along with protein!) from canadian protein. Going to run ~2-3g a day of that. One dose in the AM, one before bed.

If I suffer no ED problems with the 1:1 ratio ill bump it up for a little 'blast' .. I wan't to see some gains too :)

[JifeLacket]

2nd week in, been lifting with #8 consistently. Not maxing any lifts out, I don't think I ever will (for upper), but still going heavy. The deep throbbing/aching/pain post workout has subsided drastically. On my first tricep day last week there was some pain after, doing tri's is horrible for the elbow joint but if i stick to partial reps in a certain range the grinding and discomfort can be limited somewhat. Just playing around with different exercises right now seeing what works best. Also up a few pounds even while dieting, no sex drive or libido issues to report yet. All is going well, finally bought a gelatin capping machine so i'm going to cap up some of this glucosamine, its not pleasant to drink. The powder is dirt cheap from canadian protein!!!

[faller]

So things are looking up!

[JifeLacket]

Yes they are, I'll post an update around week 4-5 when it should really be kicking in. Time will tell...