Pendlay Rows

[O-Train]

From the man himself Glenn Pendlay. All barbell rows should be done starting from the floor and finishing on the floor. The pendlay row is only slightly different from a regular barbell row because he emphasizes extension of the upper back which further activates the lats.

http://stronglifts.com/how-to-perform-the-pendlay-row-with-correct-technique/

[Praetorian]

Compared to the BB bent row made famous by Dorian which directly works the lower lats the athlete is bent over way to much. This puts alot of stress on the lower back and takes alot of emphasis off the lower lats. There is a big difference in these two types of rows and how and what they develop muscularly.
P

[O-Train]

Compared to the BB bent row made famous by Dorian which directly works the lower lats the athlete is bent over way to much. This puts alot of stress on the lower back and takes alot of emphasis off the lower lats. There is a big difference in these two types of rows and how and what they develop muscularly.
P

I disagree. Starting from the floor is more versatile because by changing grip and arm position you can mimic a bent row and also do many other variations. Assuming the person has good flexibility lower back strain shouldn't be any worse than in a bent position. Especially considering you reset between reps instead of absorbing the eccentric with your lower back and hips. I've never had any erector issues with this exercise. It's much easier to focus on proper form when you start/finish from the floor. Including focusing on extension of the spine and scapular retraction which will improve muscle recruitment. You can bring your elbows up and away from your body and focus mainly on the traps/rhomboids and posterior deltoids. Which is something you can't do nearly as well with a bent row. Honestly I see no reason in doing a bent row and I don't plan on using them again. Just my opinion.

[Thorgrim]

I'll have to try these. O normally do my bent rows, bent over almost parallel and with an overhand grip anyway, just not doing the reset at the bottom.

The BB bent row seems to aggravate some golfers elbow issues I have been dealing with, so for now I have to stick to overhand pulling.

[fathead]

for me that would be an injury waiting to happen

[cog]

Seated?

[O-Train]

Seated?

No, standing but knees bent and back roughly parallel with the floor.

[Praetorian]

I disagree. Starting from the floor is more versatile because by changing grip and arm position you can mimic a bent row and also do many other variations. Assuming the person has good flexibility lower back strain shouldn't be any worse than in a bent position. Especially considering you reset between reps instead of absorbing the eccentric with your lower back and hips. I've never had any erector issues with this exercise. It's much easier to focus on proper form when you start/finish from the floor. Including focusing on extension of the spine and scapular retraction which will improve muscle recruitment. You can bring your elbows up and away from your body and focus mainly on the traps/rhomboids and posterior deltoids. Which is something you can't do nearly as well with a bent row. Honestly I see no reason in doing a bent row and I don't plan on using them again. Just my opinion.

The back is hit much differently depending on the position of the body...if you are trying to hit the upper back more then yes Pendlay rows will definitely do that...however if you are trying to hit the lower lats ie insertion points to build a wide flaring back starting as low to the waist as possible then no Pendlay rows will not do that....you need to adjust your position...ie more upright.
P

[faller]

for me that would be an injury waiting to happen
Yup same for me. I've tried these and the whole repositioning is what kills me. When doing a regular bent over row my body is tensed up nice and tight, the pendly I'm more or less relaxed between reps giving that jarring feeling with every rep. I just don't like the feel of it.

[cog]

No, standing but knees bent and back roughly parallel with the floor.

Trying to remember if I once saw a seated setup with a low support pad.

[warlock]

After 45 degrees of incline the muscles start to be substituted by ligaments in order to stabilize the spine.

I would give it a shot If I didn't have history of low back pain

[Praetorian]

After 45 degrees of incline the muscles start to be substituted by ligaments in order to stabilize the spine.

I would give it a shot If I didn't have history of low back pain

What? Ligaments connect bone to bone they do NOT take over for muscles to stabilize the spine.
P

This is how a proper bent row is done to target the mid to lower lats.

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html

[O-Train]

What? Ligaments connect bone to bone they do NOT take over for muscles to stabilize the spine.
P

This is how a proper bent row is done to target the mid to lower lats.

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html

Good video. Dorian is by far my favorite bodybuilder. Seems to be one of the most well educated top level guys too. I still think I can give the lats a good workout starting from the floor but I see what you mean by Yates rows specifically targeting the lats. The lats are prime movers in both exercises but the way Yates suggests doing them does largely take the other muscles out of the picture (not entirely but the focus is more on the lats). For anyone wondering, the anatomy of the lats is such that the origin is very large and fanned out. Similar to the trapezius and pectoralis major. So that's what Prae is talking about when he says mid and lower lats.

Pendlay rows are still a great exercise and I think people with the necessary body awareness and flexibility would stand to benefit from using them.

[Praetorian]

Good video. Dorian is by far my favorite bodybuilder. Seems to be one of the most well educated top level guys too. I still think I can give the lats a good workout starting from the floor but I see what you mean by Yates rows specifically targeting the lats. The lats are prime movers in both exercises but the way Yates suggests doing them does largely take the other muscles out of the picture (not entirely but the focus is more on the lats). For anyone wondering, the anatomy of the lats is such that the origin is very large and fanned out. Similar to the trapezius and pectoralis major. So that's what Prae is talking about when he says mid and lower lats.

Pendlay rows are still a great exercise and I think people with the necessary body awareness and flexibility would stand to benefit from using them.

Dont get me wrong im not saying that Pendlay rows are not a good exercise...they have there place and target a specific area of the back very well. You can assimilate a Pendlay row into a more upright bent row just by standing more vertical once you lift the barbell off the floor...I do this all the time almost as a forced rep....drop it take a second breather and then pull again...works well....i was just trying to illustrate how each exercise targets a specific area.
P

[Thorgrim]

Thanks for the video Praetorian. I noticed Dorian was using an overhand grip. For some reason I always thought that they were done with an underhand grip? I can give these a try as my elbows are only giving me grief with underhand gripping.

[Thorgrim]

Guess I should have watched the rest of that video before replying. Dorian mentions that he used to do them underhand but switched because of an injury.

[O-Train]

Dont get me wrong im not saying that Pendlay rows are not a good exercise...they have there place and target a specific area of the back very well. You can assimilate a Pendlay row into a more upright bent row just by standing more vertical once you lift the barbell off the floor...I do this all the time almost as a forced rep....drop it take a second breather and then pull again...works well....i was just trying to illustrate how each exercise targets a specific area.
P

I'm right there with you. It's just in my nature to question everything and the debate benefits all. Actually this thread has started me thinking about my current lack of back training. I know I should probably dedicate a whole workout to it but I just need to figure out the logistics.

[L3]

P that was an awesome video thanks

[#8]

You guys should see the flaming douchebag at my gym that does a horribly butchered version of these Pendlays.

His back is fully rounded the entire time, im talking ZERO arch at all. He throws the weight up with momentum and just lets it crash at full speed back to the floor. He does this a few times with about 275, and he does it many times a week. I cant stand him and I hope he cripples himself one day doing this. He is doing it just so he can make a lot of noise and hopefully get the attention of some other loser dudes who think hes strong, or maybe a chick who doesnt know any better.

My gym is FULL of these guys. Not kidding.

[Thorgrim]

Been doing the pendlay rows consistently for a few weeks now and really like them. They seem to hit my upper back and inner traps pretty hard and I can use heavy weight with out getting sloppy with the form. Seems to be a great strength exercise.

[Big D]

thanks O & P those are good videos

[tex]

thanks OP...never really done these before...started adding them in to help my bench.....love this movement! been doing them for a month now and can use some decent weight....my upper back really gets hammered!

[JMP]

I watched Yates do these and if you watch him with DB rows hes showing the same thing ( hes got his back flat and bringing the DB up to he hip nice and tight) , for me i really feel the lats working on both the positive and negatives on the way down , i love these. Yates says when doing B.O.R floor to knees that ROM is actually working your legs more than anything....again to each his own but this works for me !


What? Ligaments connect bone to bone they do NOT take over for muscles to stabilize the spine.
P

This is how a proper bent row is done to target the mid to lower lats.

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html