What is the longest recovery time?

[evoke]

Hi.
I've followed your pct suggestion. Here's a recap:

I'm 24. It was my second cycle, but it was my first real cycle.

12weeks: 500mg Test-E/week. 1000iu hcg/week.

PCT:
w1-3: 1000iu eod for 10000iu (that's 20days) + Arimidex daily.
w4-6: 50mg x2/day clomid

I stopped taking clomid half way (took it for 10 out of 21days). It was wrong - I know.

A month after pct I lost libido, completely.
It's been almost 4 months since I took anything. Everything is normal according to bloodwork. Test and estrogen levels are back to normal range.

How long will it take to recover libido? if ever?
Any advice on recovery?

[Praetorian]

Sometimes you need to jump start it by just having orgams..ie use it or lose it...if you are in a relationship then get busy...if not there is plenty of porn on th internet...also try hitting a tanning booth to get some UV rays once or twice weekly...UV reduces the production of melatonin which suppresses sexual appetite.
When did you have blood work done last? how long after PCT was it?
P

[evoke]

Sometimes you need to jump start it by just having orgams..ie use it or lose it...if you are in a relationship then get busy...if not there is plenty of porn on th internet...also try hitting a tanning booth to get some UV rays once or twice weekly...UV reduces the production of melatonin which suppresses sexual appetite.
When did you have blood work done last? how long after PCT was it?
P

Someone else told me the opposite; refrain from orgasms. It has not worked for me. I like your approach more. :D
I do tan, twice a week.
Blood work was done...hmm... either right after pct or a month after pct. I'm getting it done tomorrow again, so I will have results in 2weeks.

Additional notes:
After pct, I constantly felt extremely cold, even indoors, (I had to wear 2sweaters+2hoodies), and vascularity disappeared.
Now it seems, I'm feeling warmer and vascularity improved about halfway to original state. (and I did not lose any weight)
So things are getting better.

[Praetorian]

Someone else told me the opposite; refrain from orgasms. It has not worked for me. I like your approach more. :D
I do tan, twice a week.
Blood work was done...hmm... either right after pct or a month after pct. I'm getting it done tomorrow again, so I will have results in 2weeks.

Additional notes:
After pct, I constantly felt extremely cold, even indoors, (I had to wear 2sweaters+2hoodies), and vascularity disappeared.
Now it seems, I'm feeling warmer and vascularity improved about halfway to original state. (and I did not lose any weight)
So things are getting better.



There always should be a washout period after PCT before doing blood work...otherwise you get residually high test levels which are not a true indicator because they are higher from the clomid but will eventually drop as the clomid is removed from the bloodstream...you should wait at least 2-3 weeks after finishing the clomid before doing bloodwork. When you get it done again you will get a more accurate picture.
Use it or lose it...thats how it works with everything!!
P

[evoke]

I got blood work results. Everything is normal. I've noticed a few improvements from last results.
eg.
Testosterone: 14.0 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0) -1month after pct
Testosterone: 19.2 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0) -4months after pct (now) [Although, it could be just random fluctuation]
Before cycle it was 24.0 nmol/L
Also, cholesterol and estradiol stabilized. And I'm feeling a little better. I've felt DOMS last week for the first time in 4 months. I forgot how I've missed that feeling in the morning... :)

I've heard several suggestions for recovery. Things like Tongat ali, Panax ginseng, Ginkgo Biloba, Tribulus, Maca, etc.
Do you recommend anything? Or any other suggestions?

[Praetorian]

Those things may do a bit for libido but wont help with recovery. Regular sex will help as well.
P

[luvs2lift]

I have heard that even though proviron is a steroid using it at a low dosage won't shut you down i beleive under 100mg but most guys i know use it pct if there is a serious problem with wood.

[evoke]

Here is an update:

Before cycle ------ Testosterone: 24.7 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0)
1 month after pct - Testosterone: 14.8 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0)
4months after pct - Testosterone: 19.2 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0)
7months after pct - Testosterone: 20.1 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0)
9months after pct - Testosterone: 23.5 nmol/L (8.0 - 35.0) -Sept.2011


Test levels seems to be returning to normal after 9 months.
I got full blood work done in Sept.2011. (t3, free t4, TSH, LH, FSH, Test, estradiol, cholesterol, prolactin, cortisol, wbc, rbc, etc).
I can list full results, but everything seems in middle range.
I notice two items are low:

FSH 2.7 (2-15)
LH 2.7 (2-18)
Endo said FSH and LH expire every 30 minutes so it's inaccurate to judge them. So maybe my problem is elsewhere, but my side effects still persist.


Side effects:

1. Veins are still very thin. Seems like circulation is very weak to arms/legs/everything.

2.I still have poor libido, ED, etc.

Any advice on curing side effects or helping hpta recovery?

thanks.

[Praetorian]

Veins have more to do with bodyfat percent and blood pressure...if you lowered BF youd notice more vascularity...make sure you drink plenty of water and dont restrict sodium. You can try some natural libido enhancers just check any health food store...melanotan 2 should also help along with cialis until things normalize.
P

[#8]

Tribex by Biotest is the best OTC libido booster I ever tried. Its pricey, but it actually worked for me. L-Arginine caps are also worth considering as well.

[Andre Gregoire]

At this point it seems your HPTA is back to normal or close and that your ED problems might be related to something else. Hormonally for normal erections you would have problems if free test was low, estrogen was low or prolactin was high.

Prolactin is the refractory hormone so if it's high, it takes a long time between erections or it's hard to simply obtain an erection.

A new study came out showing that TRT patients in their 60's sometimes still have ED even when their T levels are mid normal range, the problem isn't always T, for them usually it's the heart.

I would look at heart health. Are you doing cardio? If so how intensely and frequently? Are you genetically prone to heart disease? Are you taking fish oil? Are you overweight?

Assuming it's not your heart, it's probably your mind, it's one of the most frequent problems with ED. In that case, listen to Prae and start watching lots of porn, having lots of sex.

As far as ED or sex drive supps, 5g arginine is a good one for ED / Blood Flow and so is Yohimbine but it increases blood pressure and MACA is good for sex drive, I have heard.

[evoke]

Veins have more to do with bodyfat percent and blood pressure...if you lowered BF youd notice more

vascularity...make sure you drink plenty of water and dont restrict sodium. You can try some natural libido enhancers just check any

health food store...melanotan 2 should also help along with cialis until things normalize.
P

I cut weight after cycle and I have comparison pics of me at 190lbs "before" and 190lbs "after" cycle, and there very little vascularity after cycle. Veins stick out, but they're thin. It's very unusual I know. None of my gym friends have heard of this.
My blood pressure before cycle was 110/55. Now it is 120/58. Not much difference. As for food, I eat the same as always, so I should get the same results as last year (before cycle), but it's not working.
By ED, I mean I have no spontaneous erections or morning wood. I tried Cialis, but Cialis only helps you keep an erection during sex, which is not a problem for me.

Did not know about Melanotan 2. I'll look into it.

Thanks.

[evoke]

At this point it seems your HPTA is back to normal or close and that your ED problems might be related to

something else. Hormonally for normal erections you would have problems if free test was low, estrogen was low or prolactin was high.

Prolactin is the refractory hormone so if it's high, it takes a long time between erections or it's hard to simply obtain an erection.

A new study came out showing that TRT patients in their 60's sometimes still have ED even when their T levels are mid normal range, the

problem isn't always T, for them usually it's the heart.

I would look at heart health. Are you doing cardio? If so how intensely and frequently? Are you genetically prone to heart disease? Are

you taking fish oil? Are you overweight?

Assuming it's not your heart, it's probably your mind, it's one of the most frequent problems with ED. In that case, listen to Prae and

start watching lots of porn, having lots of sex.

As far as ED or sex drive supps, 5g arginine is a good one for ED / Blood Flow and so is Yohimbine but it increases blood pressure and

MACA is good for sex drive, I have heard.
Prolactin before cycle: 12 (Range: 2 -18)
Prolactin in September: 8.8. (Range: 2 -18). Estrogen is normal too. Like I said, everything is in middle range.

Free test is not tested for in any of the labs here. My endo said I'd have to find a private clinic.
My heart is fine according to EKG test. I did cardio everyday until September. (started bulking, so cardio is limited now).
I don't think i'm prone to heart disease. I'm fine according to EKG. I take fish oil. I'm not overweight.

It's not my head, I've tried watching porn, have sex. I haven't noticed improvement. No morning wood, still.
I've tried lots of supplements including maca, yohimbine. Haven't tried 5g arginine. I'll try it. thanks.

[Praetorian]

Free test is the key...bound is inactive and really doesnt mean much...normally there is a charge for free test ...ask for it and get it done.
P

[Baconbits]

Have you tried DAA or eurycoma longifolia (longjack), both help me with libido. TP carries both.

[Andre Gregoire]

Have you tried DAA or eurycoma longifolia (longjack), both help me with libido. TP carries both.

I have used DAA and it does increase sex drive but it ****s with a lot of hormones:

Brain Res Rev. 2007 Feb;53(2):215-34. Epub 2006 Nov 21.
D-Aspartic acid: an endogenous amino acid with an important neuroendocrine role.
D'Aniello A.
Source

Laboratory of Neurobiology, Stazione Zoologica A Dohrn, Villa Comunale 1, 80121 Napoli, Italy. daniello@szn.it
Abstract

D-Aspartic acid (d-Asp), an endogenous amino acid present in vertebrates and invertebrates, plays an important role in the neuroendocrine system, as well as in the development of the nervous system. During the embryonic stage of birds and the early postnatal life of mammals, a transient high concentration of d-Asp takes place in the brain and in the retina. d-Asp also acts as a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator. Indeed, this amino acid has been detected in synaptosomes and in synaptic vesicles, where it is released after chemical (K(+) ion, ionomycin) or electric stimuli. Furthermore, d-Asp increases cAMP in neuronal cells and is transported from the synaptic clefts to presynaptic nerve cells through a specific transporter. In the endocrine system, instead, d-Asp is involved in the regulation of hormone synthesis and release. For example, in the rat hypothalamus, it enhances gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) release and induces oxytocin and vasopressin mRNA synthesis. In the pituitary gland, it stimulates the secretion of the following hormones: prolactin (PRL), luteinizing hormone (LH), and growth hormone (GH) In the testes, it is present in Leydig cells and is involved in testosterone and progesterone release. Thus, a hypothalamus-pituitary-gonads pathway, in which d-Asp is involved, has been formulated. In conclusion, the present work is a summary of previous and current research done on the role of d-Asp in the nervous and endocrine systems of invertebrates and vertebrates, including mammals.