waxy maize

[beretta96]

i was reading in the diet section where you gave a clean bulk diet with waxy maize. I've never heard of it so after some searching I found lots of pros but the only con is this link. What are your thoughts of this guy's research? Is there any validity to this?

bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy_maize_starch_myth.htm

thanks.

[cog]

i was reading in the diet section where you gave a clean bulk diet with waxy maize. I've never heard of it so after some searching I found lots of pros but the only con is this link. What are your thoughts of this guy's research? Is there any validity to this?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy_maize_starch_myth.htm

thanks.
IIRC,a member here has pointed out that waxy maize is not Vitargo.100% dextrose is pretty sweet...

[Praetorian]

The studies really prove little if anything so if we look at the real world results we can see its effectiveness...sometimes we get a bit too wrapped up in pseudo science and ignore the obvious.
P

[bigtavi8]

They sell WMS by the pound at Truesupplements to the OP. Its good but i find dextrose to do the trick just as well for PWO. Only benefit to waxy maize i find is it does not make you feel overfull and cause stomach discomfort like dextrose can at higher doses. If your going to be using a lot of it per serving waxy maize might be the way to go because it doesnt get you so bloated and you can eat a bit sooner after taking it in as compared to dextrose in my opinion. personally i use dextrose because its tried and true and a hell of a lot cheaper for filling glycogen stores.

[Sandwiches]

The studies really prove little if anything so if we look at the real world results we can see its effectiveness...sometimes we get a bit too wrapped up in pseudo science and ignore the obvious.
P

what do you prefer for post workout, Prae... Waxy Maize, Dextrose or Maltodextrin? or maybe one i haven't mentioned?

[Praetorian]

Waxy much easier on the stomach.
P

[moh2010]

They sell WMS by the pound at Truesupplements to the OP. Its good but i find dextrose to do the trick just as well for PWO. Only benefit to waxy maize i find is it does not make you feel overfull and cause stomach discomfort like dextrose can at higher doses. If your going to be using a lot of it per serving waxy maize might be the way to go because it doesnt get you so bloated and you can eat a bit sooner after taking it in as compared to dextrose in my opinion. personally i use dextrose because its tried and true and a hell of a lot cheaper for filling glycogen stores.

I agree but when you need to drink a big pwo shake and eat 7-8oz of chicken with rice an hour after, I rather use waxy. Easier to digest. Dextrose is cheaper, but tough to stomach IMO

[TT Eric]

Hello Prae I have a question about Waxy maze I have been ask often and I'm not sure of what to answer. It is said that WM has a lower glycemic index then Malto or Dextrose, but it's faster absorbed because it bypass the stomach and go to the intestines directly for immediate absorption and then so replenish the glycogen levels faster which is good. But since there is a (much) lower GI index what happen to the cortisol levels and how come it replenish the glycogen levels faster with less insulin ?

Thanks

Eric

[Praetorian]

Waxy is still a carbohydrate and will still produce an insulin response...irregardless of how much it is enough to shuttle nutrients into the cell and to create an anabolic environment in effect counteracting cortisol's catabolic effect of protein degradation, gluconeogenesis in the liver etc The theory is that because of the heavy weight of the waxy molecule it is much more efficient to transport across the cell membrane which allows it to be digested much more rapidly causing less stomach irritation and pulling less water into the gut. There does seem to be discrepancies between generic waxy maize and patented Vitargo...ive used both and Vitargo is by far superior.
P

[TT Eric]

Ah nice clarification, thanks!

I'm on TN's WM since a while, I liked it at first, now less, I always wanted to give a try to GENR8, I will give a try after this batch is finished (I have maybe 15lbs left though...).

In the PWO drink do you adjust the quantity according to the % of bodyfat ? I was talking with Biosig people lately and were telling me we should wait to be under 10% BF to go full dose after workout. And over 10% should go very easy (or even avoid simple carbs PWO IIRC).

Eric

[Praetorian]

Yes people with higher BF percentage are generally much less sensitive to insulin so the more carbs they get the more fat they deposit. This is why you want to stay lean at the same time you are building muscle...the idea of bulking is just another term for plumping up and lowering hormone levels.
P

[TT Eric]

About what % of BF do you estimate a man should reach before he can go to the 'regular' 75g of carbs PWO ?

Thanks

Eric

[Praetorian]

10% or below.
P

[TT Eric]

Excellent! Like the biosignature guys says!

Do you suggest for the people over 10% that they still can take carbs PWO but in reduced amount to shut down cortisol, or completely avoid the carbs (PWO) till they get to 10% ?

Many thanks for your time and patience! :)

Eric

[Praetorian]

For people who are above 10% insulin sensitivity starts to become a problem...at that point fat deposition becomes dominant over muscle building. Glycine can be used in place of carbs to counter the catabolic state.
P

[TT Eric]

Awesome!

If I remember correctly CP was saying 20g of L-Glycine should do the trick, does it sound good ?

I understand too that whey (as all protein) is insulogenic too, so in PWO it might help to shut down cortisol too.

And as I can see, for people over 10% BF, they should always take something like olive oil with their whey (beside PWO) to slow down absorption and keep insulin at bay.

Thanks

Eric

[Praetorian]

Any time you eat food...irregardless of the macro nutrient type...insulin is released...just with carbs much more is released. I would say 20g is fine...and yes you should always have a fat source with protein especially whey to slow transit time.
P

[cog]

Is there any diff between L-glycine,glycerol etc,Prae?

[Praetorian]

Yes glycine is an amino acid...glycerol is an organic compound in the alcohol family.
P

[TT Eric]

I found this to be relevant to the discussion :

Goal: Fat loss

How does Glutamine help?

If you’re training and trying to lose body fat then glycogen depletion is going to be a by product of your hard work. If you’re over 10% for a male, 16% for a female, then you’re fat and you aren’t worthy of a carbohydrate powder in your post workout shake. Glutamine though is great for fat loss because:

Glutamine restores glycogen levels post workout without increasing insulin

Glutamine helps to preserve lean muscle mass whilst dieting

Glutamine with cream helps curb carbohydrate cravings

Goal: Hypertrophy (muscle building)

How does Glutamine help?

Use Charles Poliquin’s Glutamine load trick to overcome muscle building plateaus. Consume 80g of Glutamine every day, for 5 days. 10g eight times spread throughout the day works best. How does this work?

Glutamine seals the intestinal wall lining, which reduces food intolerances and inflammation and improves absorption levels of food

Glutamine strengthens the immune system and the stronger your immune system, the more muscle you can build

Glutamine levels in the body drop up to 50% post workout. Supplementing helps regulate Cortisol post workout and therefore makes the body more anabolic

Glutamine plays a role in protein synthesis

Glutamine increases Growth Hormone levels

Goal: Health

How does Glutamine help?

Leaky Gut Syndrome is when small holes in your intestinal lining allow things such as undigested food into the body creating an immune response.

Glutamine is the main ingredient needed for rebuilding the intestinal lining

There are many theories on how to cure the common cold. One obvious way is to improve the functioning of the immune system. Another trick from Charles Poliquin: 10g of glutamine on the hour every hour until your cold has gone. This is because:

Glutamine supports the immune system

Glutamine helps maintain the health of white blood cells

Stress is abundant in our lives today and any product that can help with stress reduction is of paramount importance. Take Glutamine because stress drops blood Glutamine levels and:

Glutamine can be used for stress, anxiety, depression, concentration, irritability, ADHD, insomnia and increasing energy levels

You may have noticed that Glutamine can help with ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) but also with increasing energy levels. Obviously these are opposites but Glutamine is an adaptogen. This means Glutamine adapts to what it’s needed for. If you need to go to sleep, take Glutamine. If you need to wake up, take Glutamine.

There is only one contraindication to taking Glutamine. If you are nauseous when consuming extra glutamine this indicates a high toxicity in the blood. We suggest you either titrate the dose up or consult with your healthcare practitioner.

Glutamine may be considered a non-essential nutrient as we are able to synthesize it from the foods we eat and from the body itself, but as you can see we sometimes need more than the body and diet can supply.

------------


Eric

[TT Eric]

I have another question if you don't mind, I've read from a search you say that MCT's are ok off season but will slow fat loss dramatically when dieting and I would like to know why ? Is it because MCTs are viewed & digested similarly to carbs by the body ?

Because from what they claim that MCTs are boosting the metabolism, stop fatty acids from being store in fat cells and since it's a good source of energy it does help training when you are on a Keto diet, or let say under 100g of carbs per day!

Thanks

Eric

[Praetorian]

As per Dave P:

-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!

P

[TT Eric]

Basically he doesn't believe MCTS have a sparing effect on protein & glycogen, promote the utilization of other stored fat, boost the metabolism and is thermogenous like some others do if he sees them as an energy source only.

Eric

[Praetorian]

MCT's will be a preferential fuel source...protein boosts the metabolism more then fat.
P

[TT Eric]

For people who are above 10% insulin sensitivity starts to become a problem...at that point fat deposition becomes dominant over muscle building. Glycine can be used in place of carbs to counter the catabolic state.
P

Bumping this, to clarify a point, how does the Glycine is shutting the Cortisol ? I mean if we add some fat to it, the absorption time is slowed and does not spike insulin, so how does it shut down the catabolic state ?

Thanks

Eric