Slow Acting Insulin (Levemir and Lantus)

[Blitz-Test]

I know Humalog and the other meal time insulins are OTC and relatively cheap, just wondering if the slow acting insulins like Levemir and Lantus are availible OTC aswell or...

[bigtavi8]

Someone i know was wondering the same thing because they have tried Humalog before and Humulin R so they went to shoppers and got the Lantus with no prescription. This is in Ontario but as far as i know you do not need a script and it would probably be around the same price as humalog $30-$40. Running it and trying to time all your insulin spikes is something else. But Ive heard if you can work it right it can be very effective. Personally humalog seems a lot safer, easier but just a matter of opinion.

[Blitz-Test]

Someone i know was wondering the same thing because they have tried Humalog before and Humulin R so they went to shoppers and got the Lantus with no prescription. This is in Ontario but as far as i know you do not need a script and it would probably be around the same price as humalog $30-$40. Running it and trying to time all your insulin spikes is something else. But Ive heard if you can work it right it can be very effective. Personally humalog seems a lot safer, easier but just a matter of opinion.

Yea I am in Ontario too, i have always heard about fast acting slin being OTC, was unsure of slow acting...

I just see alot of protocols popping up about it, thinking Levemir would be more safe for bbing because its actually a twice a day inject so the active life is shorter than Lantus which i believe is 18 hours so its dipping into your sleep time even if it is way past your peak time im not sure if id want this

[Praetorian]

Humulin R is best for BB purposes. Humalog is too fast...you are basically mimicking endogenous insulin which raises the probability of insulin resistance occurring.

P

[JonnyO]

Humulin R is best for BB purposes. Humalog is too fast...you are basically mimicking endogenous insulin which raises the probability of insulin resistance occurring.

P

I agree with P here. I like Novolin R as well. I think with the Humalog its too fast and guys pound back the carbs too much and they gain too much fat on it. use something longer, but not too long, and you will make gains with no to minimal fat gains.

I know some guys want to use Lantus after listening to one of those radio shows and some posts by some guy who is a total ass clown, his suggestions, last time I checked anyways, were down right stupid.

[Sean Summers]

I am in 100% agreement with Prea. Stick with R. Lantis you can get without an Rx. I had to buy it for my cat and got it no probs. If I remember correctly it was f**king expensive.

[Blitz-Test]

I am in 100% agreement with Prea. Stick with R. Lantis you can get without an Rx. I had to buy it for my cat and got it no probs. If I remember correctly it was f**king expensive.

Yea, I've heard its 300IU vial compared to the humalog 1000iu vials, and common dosing is starting at 15iu a day working up to 30-40IUs so it would get pretty expensive if its more than the $35ish for Humalog

[Sean Summers]

I seem to remember $80 but I will confirm with Fit226 - he's a diabetic.

[Blitz-Test]

I seem to remember $80 but I will confirm with Fit226 - he's a diabetic.

Thanks alot, I just looked and there at 10ml 100iu/ml vials or the catridges for pens, im sure the pens are much more expensive, i remember my 5 300iu humalog prefilled pens were $120, while a vial was $35...

[Blitz-Test]

I called Shoppers Drug Mart

It's $74.99 for 10ml 100iu/ml of the Lantus,

Still going to do alot more research before diving into any of these longer acting slins, as P said the common belief is the shorter acting ones are better for BB purposes, although these long acting ones are getting alot of attention in the last 5 years... Just something I want to look into, I've only ever done Humalog

[Sean Summers]

If you are going to use slin you must:

1. make sure you are not fat
2. ensure test levels are high
3. ensure diet is in check ALL the time

[Praetorian]

If you are going to use slin you must:

1. make sure you are not fat
2. ensure test levels are high
3. ensure diet is in check ALL the time

Just to add one more...be using GH...otherwise you will become #1.
P

[Mr.Freeze]

here's a nice chart i found on the net.

[blp]

I am in 100% agreement with Prea. Stick with R. Lantis you can get without an Rx. I had to buy it for my cat and got it no probs. If I remember correctly it was f**king expensive.

you gota to love th honesty !!!

[Blitz-Test]

you gota to love th honesty !!!

You have any experience with long acting slin, ive followed your Q and A thread dont remember if its ever come up

[Rrrrolla]

I used a few bottles of lantus with decent results. I went as high as 80iu/day when I was bulking, that was too much. The nature of my job did not allow me to eat at regular intervals and nearly went hypo in some very dangerous places. I would not suggest ever venturing above 40iu unless you can be absolutely certain you can get carbs quickly into you. That was in conjunction with 10iu of gh daily. After my little scare I stopped insulin completely btw.

[fit226]

You guys are F'ing nuts with your dosages of insulin...man, i don't produce insulin one bit within my body and i could never handle the dosages you guys are suggesting..wow....

Here is a typical day for me....


Humilin N - 15 units first thing in the morning upon waking
Humalog - 8-10 units with breakfast

humalog - 5 - 6 units with every meal throughout the day

6pm - Humalog - 12 units to get me through the night

thats all...

REMEMBER KIDS I DON'T PRODUCE ANY OF MY OWN!!

[Sean Summers]

For those of you who don't understand that last post...fit226 is a Type 1 diabetic...diagnosed in his early childhood. Heed his words.

[fit226]

For those of you who don't understand that last post...fit226 is a Type 1 diabetic...diagnosed in his early childhood. Heed his words.

thanks mr man!

[Rrrrolla]

You guys are F'ing nuts with your dosages of insulin...man, i don't produce insulin one bit within my body and i could never handle the dosages you guys are suggesting..wow....

Here is a typical day for me....


Humilin N - 15 units first thing in the morning upon waking
Humalog - 8-10 units with breakfast

humalog - 5 - 6 units with every meal throughout the day

6pm - Humalog - 12 units to get me through the night

thats all...

REMEMBER KIDS I DON'T PRODUCE ANY OF MY OWN!!

So heres a question, because my body produces its own insulin, when I take extrogenous insulin, does my body still produce its own and they add together, or does my body see the dose of insulin and not produce its own? I kinda always wondered that, I have taken insulin in similar protocals to what you do Fit, but I might have just been replacing my own insulin with what I bought, kinda a complete waste, unless I take higher than normal doses (which I have done, and got a nice belly from LOL).

[fit226]

ummm it works like testosterone...when you first introduce it you'll have a surplus of test/insulin cause your body is still manufacturing it. Over time you start to shut down your own production with either hormone. So in essence you end up just replacing your own and shutting your system down...bro, thats the last thing you want to do. Hard enough getting old never mind f'ing up your hormones for the future.

[Rrrrolla]

Oh I very much value my endogenous insulin production! My dad recently died and excrutiating death from pancreatic cancer. The insulin (or lack thereof) was hard enough to help him deal with, let alone the pain from a grapefruit size tumour. Needless to say, my outlook on insulin use has changed greatly over the last few months.

[natenator]

Oh I very much value my endogenous insulin production! My dad recently died and excrutiating death from pancreatic cancer. The insulin (or lack thereof) was hard enough to help him deal with, let alone the pain from a grapefruit size tumour. Needless to say, my outlook on insulin use has changed greatly over the last few months.

It's not JUST insulin. It's everything we put in our bodies that above it's normal levels. Testosterone, gh, t3, etc. There's risks associated with all of this. Yes there's abuse and use but even with casual use that doesn't guarantee us being free from health issues down the road.

Proceed with caution is my new mantra these days lol

Shhh the aging/maturing process is a wonderfully shitty one hahah

[fit226]

It's not JUST insulin. It's everything we put in our bodies that above it's normal levels. Testosterone, gh, t3, etc. There's risks associated with all of this. Yes there's abuse and use but even with casual use that doesn't guarantee us being free from health issues down the road.

Proceed with caution is my new mantra these days lol

Shhh the aging/maturing process is a wonderfully shitty one hahah

Do you cry more often with sappy movies too??? Just don't want to be in the boat alone! lol

[natenator]

Do you cry more often with sappy movies too??? Just don't want to be in the boat alone! lol

Haha only o es involving father-son or dog plot lines. John Q and marley and me were brutal shah

[Blitz-Test]

You guys are F'ing nuts with your dosages of insulin...man, i don't produce insulin one bit within my body and i could never handle the dosages you guys are suggesting..wow....

Here is a typical day for me....


Humilin N - 15 units first thing in the morning upon waking
Humalog - 8-10 units with breakfast

humalog - 5 - 6 units with every meal throughout the day

6pm - Humalog - 12 units to get me through the night

thats all...

REMEMBER KIDS I DON'T PRODUCE ANY OF MY OWN!!

I said start at 15IU and build to 30-40IU a day, and Lantus and Levemir replace your natural insulin REMEMBER KIDS IF YOU REPLACE A HORMONE IN YOUR BODY YOUR BODY WONT CREATE MORE OF IT.. So if you shoot 40IU a day you wont have natural levels either.... So it doesnt matter if your type 1 or 2 or non diabetic...

Also; 15+10+6+12=43IU, So how are the doses talked about in this thread "F'ing nuts"

For a 200lb man, a doc would start you with 18-20IU of lantus per day and adjust as needed... so starting with 15IU is rather not nuts imo.... Chances are on sugar heavy meals you wont even replace insulin enough and your body will actually produce more... Going up to 40IU is nothing extreme, its been done medicinally with lantus is the clinical trials actually 200lb men were dosed with 60IU....

This thread is about long acting insulins with replace your natural insulin, it doesnt add to it.. Humalog is viewed as over and above your natural levels because only in that 4 hour window is your body taking a break from producing and letting the exogenous hormone do it..

[fit226]

I say it's "f'ing" nuts cause your not diabetic!!!...wow, dude nothing on this planet would make me do insulin if not needed just to avoid complications down the road...being diabetic is so not fun...you don't want to try it anytime soon...

[natenator]

I say it's "f'ing" nuts cause your not diabetic!!!...wow, dude nothing on this planet would make me do insulin if not needed just to avoid complications down the road...being diabetic is so not fun...you don't want to try it anytime soon...

What's even funnier/sad is this guy is 22/23 or around there I think.

[Blitz-Test]

I say it's "f'ing" nuts cause your not diabetic!!!...wow, dude nothing on this planet would make me do insulin if not needed just to avoid complications down the road...being diabetic is so not fun...you don't want to try it anytime soon...

Using insulin will not lead to you becoming diabetic, actually a bulking diet for long peroids of time with high carbs will force your pancreas to work overtime and actually be more detrimental than short bouts of using insulin which actually takes a load off the pancreas... Saying the insulin leads to diabetes is old highly misinformed brologic...

To be honest, anything I do is monitored closely, done in very conservative doses, and researched extensively before hand..

[Blitz-Test]

What's even funnier/sad is this guy is 22/23 or around there I think.

Thanks for posting in my thread, you're always so damn helpful...

Also there are 23 year olds that compete over 230lb in the Arnold, there are 23 year olds that put you to shame.. How do you know I am not one of them?

[natenator]

Thanks for posting in my thread, you're always so damn helpful...

Also there are 23 year olds that compete over 230lb in the Arnold, there are 23 year olds that put you to shame.. How do you know I am not one of them?

Was not a question of looks/size. Was a Comment towards stupidity of using such compounds for a) a hobby and b) at a young age.

I think those same competitors at the Arnold or any other show to be stupid as well so it's not just you.

[Blitz-Test]

Was not a question of looks/size. Was a Comment towards stupidity of using such compounds for a) a hobby and b) at a young age.

I think those same competitors at the Arnold or any other show to be stupid as well so it's not just you.

You seem to poke in and say these type of things in alot of my threads, but to be honest i dont think your really know anything about me besides my age, considering my cycle right now is 600mg of deca with 750mg of test, i dont see this a stupid, i dont use hgh or igf, or slin, dont use any peptides, besides using hcg throughout my entire cycle, come off after 10-14 weeks take more than enough time off, havent been on since last august, yet still going to be at a powerlifting meet pushing 495lb on bench

I question things alot, and like to learn about it, like to hear personal experiences, (kinda my field of interest, I am a med student with an undergrad bachelor of science with honors in endocrinology and metabolism, minor in biomedicine)

[fit226]

well..just don't be silly...trust me we all had a mentality at that age that that's all that matters but we just don't want you to get older with regrets and bro, i have a little background with diabetes...you use insulin for long enough you WILL shut your own production off and may never be able to restart it...look at the big picture...

[shainesboostin]

Wow, keep this thread going, I am type 1 diabetic as well and really trying to find info in regard to diabetes/bodybuilding.

I take 15units Lantus every night.

Also, about 30-40 units of Nolvalog total throught the day (400 carb diet.)

SO, are you guys saying I could make gains by upping my Lantus dosage?

[Andre Gregoire]

What a stupid ****ing idea, using long lasting insulin. What's the goal? To get as fat as possible as quickly as possible or perhaps to get as insulin resistant as possible as quickly as possible oh oh maybe it's to cause the most systematic inflammation as possible since that's the root of most lifestyle diseases?

My bro is a type 1 diabetic like Fit226, even for diabetics endo's are starting to understand that having high insulin all the is a really bad idea. My bro uses humalog every time he eats, no long lasting shit.

Insulin is necessary to drive glucose and aminos in the cells but it's got bad effects like the inflammation/insulin resistance thing which no one should want.

[shainesboostin]

What a stupid ****ing idea, using long lasting insulin. What's the goal? To get as fat as possible as quickly as possible or perhaps to get as insulin resistant as possible as quickly as possible oh oh maybe it's to cause the most systematic inflammation as possible since that's the root of most lifestyle diseases?

My bro is a type 1 diabetic like Fit226, even for diabetics endo's are starting to understand that having high insulin all the is a really bad idea. My bro uses humalog every time he eats, no long lasting shit.

Insulin is necessary to drive glucose and aminos in the cells but it's got bad effects like the inflammation/insulin resistance thing which no one should want.

Exactly! I mean, obviously I am some what lost, but my understanding is you want LOW levels during times your not training correct? I mean, I know its anabolic, but theres got to be a limit (or dosage) that its no longer adding towards muscle, and would be making it dam near impossible to use fat for energy.

I would think maybe fast acting when waking and POST workout would be optimal, but if pros are using long acting for higher BASAL levels, I want to know more...

[Praetorian]

Humulin R (still considered fast acting) insulin is preferred when it comes to building mass...less shots equates to less chances of insulin resistance as well as more stable blood levels. You dont want to mimick natural insulin using Humalog. Since, as a bodybuilder, you are only looking to supplement your current insulin output (not replace it as a type I diabetic would), it would make more sense to stick to the Humulin-R type that would only require a twice daily administration schedule.
Also you really shouldnt be using any type of slin unless you have plateaued on GH which means you should be an advanced level BB and an intelligent on at that. Using slin if not required will just lead to high fat deposition.
P

[shainesboostin]

Humulin R (still considered fast acting) insulin is preferred when it comes to building mass...less shots equates to less chances of insulin resistance as well as more stable blood levels. You dont want to mimick natural insulin using Humalog. Since, as a bodybuilder, you are only looking to supplement your current insulin output (not replace it as a type I diabetic would), it would make more sense to stick to the Humulin-R type that would only require a twice daily administration schedule.
Also you really shouldnt be using any type of slin unless you have plateaued on GH which means you should be an advanced level BB and an intelligent on at that. Using slin if not required will just lead to high fat deposition.
P

If that was dirrected towards me, I AM a type 1 diabetic, currently, 195lbs 8% BF. I take 15 units of lantus ever night, and take nolvalog with every meal. Usually 40 units total a day. Now, my question is, would taking more lantus be beneficial from a bodybuilding standpoint? I mean, that would mean Higher Basal levels...

[Praetorian]

Not directed at you just BB in general...I would stay away from taking more slin...just use what is necessary for what you eat.
P

[shainesboostin]

Not directed at you just BB in general...I would stay away from taking more slin...just use what is necessary for what you eat.
P

But, would more make more muscles?

My thought is, lets say I eat 500 carbs a day, if my blood sugars are within range the whole time, then I took the proper amount of insulin, and the glucose was delivered.

But with all these pros on slin, theres got to be more to it. I wish FIT22 would chime in...

[Praetorian]

Not necessarily no...more slin could just equate to more fat. To use slin correctly as I said you need to be running GH and generally have plateaued on GH. Slin by itself is a recipe for getting fat. Yes some pros use slin but they are also using GH and alot of androgens.
P

[shainesboostin]

Not necessarily no...more slin could just equate to more fat. To use slin correctly as I said you need to be running GH and generally have plateaued on GH. Slin by itself is a recipe for getting fat. Yes some pros use slin but they are also using GH and alot of androgens.
P


Ok, I mean, when I took 30 units of Lantus a night I was 205, now I lowered it to 15 as thats all I need to keep my blood sugar levels where they need to be, but I am now 195lbs, but I think I am alot leaner. But, cant put on weight no matter how much I eat! I didnt know if there was a correlation: like "X" amount of slin can only support "X" amount of muscle.

So, you dont think by falsly raising basal levels ie: take more lantus than needed, would result in more muscle? Sorry to keep going with this, I just wanna get this down to a science!

[Praetorian]

I just think as a type 1 diabetic messing with your insulin levels leads to greater risks than benefits...too many young guys sacrafice their health for very little when it comes to muscle growth....there are much more effective ways than what you are thinking of doing. Again using insulin should be one of the last resorts of an advanced BB...how many times have you been to the Nationals?
P

[shainesboostin]

I just think as a type 1 diabetic messing with your insulin levels leads to greater risks than benefits...too many young guys sacrafice their health for very little when it comes to muscle growth....there are much more effective ways than what you are thinking of doing. Again using insulin should be one of the last resorts of an advanced BB...how many times have you been to the Nationals?
P

Obviously never, I didnt say I would do this, just wondering if by having such a low dose insulin could be making it impossilbe to put on weight, like I said, does "X" amount of slin in the body, only allow "X" amount of muscle. Seems like nobody really knows.

[Andre Gregoire]

Obviously never, I didnt say I would do this, just wondering if by having such a low dose insulin could be making it impossilbe to put on weight, like I said, does "X" amount of slin in the body, only allow "X" amount of muscle. Seems like nobody really knows.

Dude, everybody knows and your question has been answered. Everybody is telling you it's not the slin you need its the extra ****ING calories. Calories make you gain weight not drugs, they only help the food along, you can't make muscle out of thin air with magic.

[shainesboostin]

Dude, everybody knows and your question has been answered. Everybody is telling you it's not the slin you need its the extra ****ING calories. Calories make you gain weight not drugs, they only help the food along, you can't make muscle out of thin air with magic.

Ha, ok man, didnt mean to push! Im apologize! Just trying to learn thats all...

[Andre Gregoire]

No worries and sorry for being an ass but once you increase the calories you will also need to increase the insulin obviously. It's the combo of progressive resistance training, progressively eating more food and all the hormones including insulin but the most anabolic thing is the food because without it you would never grow.

[shainesboostin]

No worries and sorry for being an ass but once you increase the calories you will also need to increase the insulin obviously. It's the combo of progressive resistance training, progressively eating more food and all the hormones including insulin but the most anabolic thing is the food because without it you would never grow.

No you werent man, sometimes I am hard headed. I guess I thought this way because when diagnosed with diabetes (body making no insulin) it is NOT possible to add muscle, your body will literally eat itself! I went from 150lbs to 105lbs before being diagnosed when my BS level was 1100! I should have been DEAD! Anyways, the second I got on insulin, the weight came on, and on FAST. This is probably do to the fact that before I wasnt making insulin the calories were simply being pissed out, now with insulin the calories are being properly utilized (I assume). So, I thought well shit, if "X" amount got me to 195lbs, I wonder if "X" amount would get me to (whatever amount).

Now I see what your saying, in theory, if I am eating more carbs/cals, my needs will go up simply do to there being more food to be covered.

Currently, I am eating a bit above 4k cals, 400carbs, 300Protien, and STILL no weight gain! I thought insulin was the colperate. Do you think its possilbe I need MORE calories than that?


Again, thank you for being so patient, it means alot to me to get advice!

[blp]

Using insulin will not lead to you becoming diabetic, actually a bulking diet for long peroids of time with high carbs will force your pancreas to work overtime and actually be more detrimental than short bouts of using insulin which actually takes a load off the pancreas... Saying the insulin leads to diabetes is old highly misinformed brologic...

To be honest, anything I do is monitored closely, done in very conservative doses, and researched extensively before hand..



sorry but that boring,,,

be a monster n dont give a shit

[Rrrrolla]

Two ways of looking at it. 1, eat more calories and use insulin to cover it (keep bs levels in check), this would be the SMART way of doing things. 2, use more insulin and eat more food to cover the blood sugar drop. Either way will get to the same end result, but the second method (if that is what you are proposing) could kill you. Obviously the more insulin you take the more mass you will put on, but I wouldnt do it with lemevir or lantus. Keep that at the standard dose and up the fast insulin to cover the bigger meals. I have tried the second way and had a really big scare with lantus. I was stuck on an island all day with very little food and 80iu of lantus into me that morning. And no, this little experiment did not result in any great weight gains. As a side note, I was also using 10iu of gh at the time. Dont do this, it doesnt work and its just stupid. Eat big meals and take whatever amount of fast insulin you can without ever going hypo.

[blp]

lentus + pharma hgh = amazing