Liver?

[Solo59]

Aside from the obvious things, like oral AAS, what else is hard on the liver that I need to avoid? My values are way up and I've to get them down, fast as I can.

I didn't do myself any good by spending a week in Puerto Vallarta at the end of December pumped up with Tren and drinking Margaritas from morning until night. But I've never been enough of a puritan, and I'm now old.:rolleyes:

I'm off my HRT for a while (doctor's orders) and I read that even mesterolone (proviron) can be slightly harmful as well. Apparently even HCG might have harmful effects, and same with tamoxifen (not that I was really considering tamoxifen).

So, what's left? No booze for a while anyway & no acetaminophen. Pumping down the berry juice, I guess, along with mouthfuls of silymarin & silybin. I already take R-ALA & NAC. Don't think I'm desperate enough for the coffee enema recommended on some sites:eek:!

Any other recommendations?

Solo

[gicantor]

Liv-52 or Cycle Support or both.

[ironwill]

Milk thistle along with your other liver support things....Also niacin helps out.....The best thing i have used is the milk thistle....1 serving am, and 1 serving pm....

[cog]

Milk thistle along with your other liver support things....Also niacin helps out.....The best thing i have used is the milk thistle....1 serving am, and 1 serving pm....

Are you sure about the niacin there big guy?IIRC,it can be a load on the liver in larger amounts.

[ironwill]

It helps with hdl/ldl levels but is toxic at high doses over 3 grams...Vitamin b3 is necessary as are all b vitamins for health of liver, skin, eyes, triglyceride control etc.

All B vitamins help the body to convert food (carbohydrates) into fuel (glucose), which is "burned" to produce energy...Thats my take anyways....Maybe im wrong, but thats what i have understood??
Although all required niacin is available through the diet....So im a bit off on using for liver health after thinking more....Thanks coq...

[Solo59]

Milk thistle along with your other liver support things....Also niacin helps out.....The best thing i have used is the milk thistle....1 serving am, and 1 serving pm....

Thanks, Ironwill. Silymarin is milk thistle extract and silybin is the active ingredient in silymarin. I am doing a six big tabs of these a day now.

Liv 52 (sold in Canada as Himalaya Liver Care®) has a great reputation, but its ingredients are just herbals, not even the concentrated extracts of the active ingredients. I have trouble believing it could do much, but I'll check some out just in case. Thanks.

Solo

[ironwill]

Thanks, Ironwill. Silymarin is milk thistle extract and silybin is the active ingredient in silymarin. I am doing a six big tabs of these a day now.

Liv 52 (sold in Canada as Himalaya Liver Care®) has a great reputation, but its ingredients are just herbals, not even the concentrated extracts of the active ingredients. I have trouble believing it could do much, but I'll check some out just in case. Thanks.

Solo

Weird as i have a pill that is 400 mg of milk thistle, and 500 mg of silymarin...Ill admit im not well versed in these type of supps yet as i dont run orals often, but have been looking into it more and more since im getting older....
Thanks for the lesson...:)

[juced_porkchop]

DEFF keep up with the R-ALA & NAC.
I rec adding l-Taurine 1-3g ED. helps with alot of functions body and mind AND liver.

test HRT shouldent be effectng your liver, not dehydration and tren and = ALOT of liver/kidny issues and boozing it up , in the heat while on tren is a really stupid thing, but its done already i guess.

[#8]

Turmeric extract. Most potent liver detox you can buy.

[japh]

Lemon water- thats a very simple aid. Apparently its helpful. I doubt its the end all be all for liver health but anything in the right direction I suppose. You can google lemon water and decide for yourself :)

I would keep hrt myself at 100mgs a week. I'm no doctor but I can't see that being the deciding factor as to whether or not your liver values will drop. If you're popping any pills I'd be damn sure it is not liver toxic in anyway. I wouldn't pop any pill that doesn't purport to be liver healthy in fact.

I'd probably come off all orals myself other than a herbal liver cleanse like liv 52, fish oil and greens. I'd drink mass amounts of lemon water throughout the day and eat a very clean diet that was not necessarily a bodybuilders diet. Just go into maintenance mode and maybe drop a little bodyfat depending on where you're at. I remember you being quite lean already. Something like 200 grams of carbs, 200 protein and 75 fat half of which is supplemental from fish oil. 2200 calories aproximately.

See if the body is able to do this on its own by being healthy for a while basically;) :)

[cog]

Lemon water- thats a very simple aid. Apparently its helpful. I doubt its the end all be all for liver health but anything in the right direction I suppose. You can google lemon water and decide for yourself :)

I would keep hrt myself at 100mgs a week. I'm no doctor but I can't see that being the deciding factor as to whether or not your liver values will drop. If you're popping any pills I'd be damn sure it is not liver toxic in anyway. I wouldn't pop any pill that doesn't purport to be liver healthy in fact.

I'd probably come off all orals myself other than a herbal liver cleanse like liv 52, fish oil and greens. I'd drink mass amounts of lemon water throughout the day and eat a very clean diet that was not necessarily a bodybuilders diet. Just go into maintenance mode and maybe drop a little bodyfat depending on where you're at. I remember you being quite lean already. Something like 200 grams of carbs, 200 protein and 75 fat half of which is supplemental from fish oil. 2200 calories aproximately.

See if the body is able to do this on its own by being healthy for a while basically;) :)

My wife mentioned the lemon water.Lots of water.No red meat.Her specialist is dead set against any hormone treatment...but all cases are different.

[japh]

COG -^^^Yeah, I guess that was more my bias than what woud be helpful for his liver.:)

As a fellow guy and weightlifter I just cringe at the idea of having no exogenous testosterone since I believe solo has been on hrt for a long time.

Purely from a "liver healthy" standpoint if your wifes specialist says no hrt I would agree that he is absolutely correct.

Myself, I would do everything in my power first to lower my values to an acceptable level leaving my hrt dose for last if need be. Thats not good advice thats just what I would do. ;) If it came down to that I would be very fearful that something was wrong which goes far beyond simply just 100mgs of test a week.

Not to be a fear mongerer solo but it is wise for everyone to be tested for hep a b and c just in case.

[cog]

They likely checked.

[Solo59]

They likely checked.

He's my HRT urologist doc. I twisted his arm and got him to prescribe me injects instead of skin gel or cream, but he monitors me closely. I had my BW done near the end of January and he said my RBC count was too high, so told me to check it out again. I donated blood & the RBC went down on the lab work, but then found I had high liver values. My ALT was 75 and my AST was 83. Unfortunately, that's a foreign language to me. Am I a dead man or do I have steal a warm liver from a head-trauma car crash victim?

So here I am still off (most) Test and still on plenty of silymarin & others stuff. I expect to heal just fine. Then I'll get drunk on vodka.:rolleyes:

Solo

[japh]

http://www.medicinenet.com/liver_blood_tests/page2.htm

You're more than likely just fine :)

Even though its high its not crazy high.

Liver enzymes are just a loose guideline anyways and not an exact measurement of how your liver is actually doing.

Its interesting that muscle damage can throw off a test.

I wonder what your next test would be like after a month or two of drinking lots of water, eating healthy and then taking a planned week off from the gym before the test? Probably quite different.

[japh]

I should also say that a low protein diet is recommended as well if you're really serious about getting them down.

[#8]

He's my HRT urologist doc. I twisted his arm and got him to prescribe me injects instead of skin gel or cream, but he monitors me closely. I had my BW done near the end of January and he said my RBC count was too high, so told me to check it out again. I donated blood & the RBC went down on the lab work, but then found I had high liver values. My ALT was 75 and my AST was 83. Unfortunately, that's a foreign language to me. Am I a dead man or do I have steal a warm liver from a head-trauma car crash victim?

So here I am still off (most) Test and still on plenty of silymarin & others stuff. I expect to heal just fine. Then I'll get drunk on vodka.:rolleyes:

Solo

wow. although those values are elevated, they are hardly worth writing home about. your doc seems to be quite paro. i had liver values literally 10x that from some FISH that i was eating from the grocery store. it literally almost killed me, and i stayed on my HRT the whole time as i dropped the fish and my levels returned to normal.

[Solo59]

I should also say that a low protein diet is recommended as well if you're really serious about getting them down.

Really? And lots of water? I'm drinking lots of *pure* fruit juices, like blueberry or pomegranate or cranberry. That's supposed to help cleanse.

Stay away from gym strain, too, eh? It's not like I need more excuses to stay away from my favourite place, especially since, with low Test and a slightly malfunctioning liver, I am not motivated (driven) like my usual self.

I'll take month's break from heavy lifting and drink no alcohol but lots of water & juice. I'll even avoid protein shakes, but, man, got to still eat fish!

Surely those handfuls of milk thistle extract & Liv 52, not to mention rALA and NAC, should do something!

Another natural health site mentions shallow coffee enemas, but I have better uses for my coffee, I think. Maybe if I just put the grounds up there?:shock

Solo;)

[japh]

My understanding of muscle damage from that reading is not that is does liver damage so much as it throws off the test giving false readings which are higher than they should be.

I just surmised that taking a week off prior to the test would be a safe amount of time as to not throw your readings off as bad as they first appeared so you can get your doc back on the program once it is apparent that you do not have liver disease and enzymes are moving in the right direction.

Myself, I'd just follow a low protein diet the same week as my week off from the gym before the next test.

From my limited knowledge these tests can vary quite a bit and can come down quite quick.

Drinking alchohol before a test gives high readings even though the liver will be fine within a couple weeks if bloodwork was taken again with no drinking provided the liver was healthy to begin with.

This is just my understanding. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me anyone. I'm no expert.

[cog]

Your liver is quite resilient.I think your doc is confused because he doesn't know about the other stuff.I would forget about orals,just don't think they are worth it.Ten years from now you still want to be good,right?

[Solo59]

Your liver is quite resilient.I think your doc is confused because he doesn't know about the other stuff.I would forget about orals,just don't think they are worth it.Ten years from now you still want to be good,right?

I want to be good enough to be bad, yep.

Solo:D