Intravenous injections?

[japh]

This is purely for dicussion sake.

I know with some there is a movement to inject test suspension intramuscularly prior to working out along with orally ingesting some dbol.

The idea is that there is a performance gain in the gym when hormone levels are peaked right at that time along with a greater anabolic environment for pre/during/post workout nutrition.

FOR THOSE WITH EXPERIENCE DOING THIS DOES IT WORK IN YOUR OPINION?

I know many might consider an intravenous injection "gross and crazy" while having no problem with intramuscular injections. For anyone who wants to flame please put that bias aside. This thread really isn't about your phobia :) Purely from a delivery standpoint intravenous is superior to any other delivery method and used in hospitals for a reason. I'm not promoting this I'm just saying....

My question is this:

Test suspension is water based and g2g from an intravenous standpoint I imagine.

Dbol: IS DBOL WATER SOLUBLE NATURALLY?

Tren: CAN TREN BE KEPT IN EITHER A WATER SOLUBLE POWDER OR SUSPENSION FORM?

I was thinking if a person were to intravenously inject:

100 mgs test suspension
50 mgs tren suspension
30 mgs dbol suspension

That would make for a very good 4 hour window for both lifting and packing down a couple thousand calories potentially.

Any thoughts? Yay or nay?

[vanskelig]

is this a troll post?

[japh]

Absolutely not. The last thing I want is to bait an emotional response from anyone. I prefer to leave emotion and personal opinion out of it altogether. I'm fine with the topic myself.

[Praetorian]

An incredibly stupid idea.
P

[JifeLacket]

FAIL

The only dbol suspension i know of is ORAL ONLY. Don't even think about injecting it.

[faller]

Try it and get back to us?

[monkey]

"This is the dumbest, most insane idea I've ever heard. Everyone on this board is dumber for having read this. God bless you"

[japh]

This is just theorizing and my thoughts on the topic:

Something about tren scares me delivered in this form. That could be dangerous for sure. The potential tren cough from this could literally land someone on their ass not to mention some severe rage issues once they got past it. It would hit the lungs fast. Something about it passing through the brain like that could be messed up as well. Acne could be a huge concern as well.



Theoretically though if a product is safe to inject intramuscularly then it should be safe to inject intravenously provided it was set up for this. Obviously it would have to be water based and not oil to start.

No matter how a drug is delivered/ingested it all ends up in the bloodstream eventually whether it be the lungs, nasal cavities, sublingually, orally ingested, and transdermal.

This would just be in there in about 5 seconds all at once with nothing lost. With some drugs this makes a huge difference on the effect it has on the body. Whether or not a person would be in an extreme anabolic state or not for a very short time I think is an interesting thought thats all.

Dbol and winny both come in suspension form.

I'm not promoting it as a good idea or saying I personally have any intention of acting on this thought. People have thoughts all the time and I doubt I'm the first person who ever wondered this simply for curiosity's sake. I understand theres a stigma (unfair judgement based on the delivery mechanism) here and am not meaning to offend anyone.

The thought just interested me in general and I was wondering what others thought were with regards to this. I'm not talking about the thought of acting on it and how stupid that would be just whether it would work in theory?

If its stupid then why is it stupid? Not wanting to debate just wondering what the logical explanation would be for the stupidity.

[cog]

.

[cog]

People are concerned.

[theboss]

Try it and get back to us?

hmm..i dont think he would for some reason.

[monkey]

(...). Ur funny

[JifeLacket]

Please inject the full volume into the carotid artery so you don't/can't come back posting ridiculous things like this.

[Solo59]

Theoretically, if you survived or were not rendered into a drooling idiot, it would be quite a hormonal rush – probably too overwhelming to just rush into the gym and get lifting. However, I would be wary of dropping dead or being rendered into a drooling idiot.:flowers

Solo

[monkey]

You are simply ignoring or not considering a variety of biological conncepts concepts that should allow u to realize that u don't make sense.

[japh]

By no means am I saying I make perfect sense. Its just an interesting thought and point of interest to me. Nothing more.

[japh]

I am grateful for my life and have not intention of ever doing this. That should go without saying.

[vanskelig]

I think this should be deleted as if anyone misunderstood this as someones misguided attempt at conversation, it might have some very negative consequences.

[monkey]

We need a "best of section" for stupidity like this

[zziggzzigg]

suspension isn't even dissolved in the water, you would be injecting particles, how stupid

[Body By Balco]

Injecting a suspension will cause an embolism. If you have a pre-existing venous thrombosis, a pulmonary embolism will likely be fatal.

Steroids CAN be injected IV if they are suitably dissolved in water based solution, and the ONLY way to do that is via cyclodextrin complexation. I have injected Test in cyclodextrin solution IV MANY times. It's OK, but Methyl-Test is better for a pre-work out focus and energy stimulus. Take 50mg of Methyl Test and you'll be off and running in the gym and wonder WTF just happened.


No one start with the 'methyl methyl oh my poor liver' BS. Seriously!

[faller]

Very interesting! Looks like some of us owe japh and apology :ht

[japh]

Thats OK faller, no apology necessary :) Thank-you though :)

I'm glad BBB took the time to point out a suspension was not suitable just in case someone might take my theorizing to heart and hurt themselves.

I was just thinking that an extreme anabolic window could be created during the pre and postworkout nutrition time as well as increase intensity in the gym. A person could use enanthate to keep stable blood levels throughout the week and then peak them exactly when it counts on training days with IV test(taken pre-worout) and some insulin (not IV of course) taken post workout responsibly as well. Protein sythesis would then be quite high. Obviously this would fasttrack recovery and muscular potential.

Basically just doing what the body does naturally all around only then some.

From my own personal experience I know the same drug is not the same depending on how it is delivered. I have some basic understanding of pharmacology as well but am not a chemist. I know the thought of IV freaks people out because of the stigma attached. My intent was not to step on peoples morals.

[cog]

Test suspension just before working out.Always had a great workout.IM of course.

[Praetorian]

Thats OK faller, no apology necessary :) Thank-you though :)

I'm glad BBB took the time to point out a suspension was not suitable just in case someone might take my theorizing to heart and hurt themselves.

I was just thinking that an extreme anabolic window could be created during the pre and postworkout nutrition time as well as increase intensity in the gym. A person could use enanthate to keep stable blood levels throughout the week and then peak them exactly when it counts on training days with IV test(taken pre-worout) and some insulin (not IV of course) taken post workout responsibly as well. Protein sythesis would then be quite high. Obviously this would fasttrack recovery and muscular potential.

Basically just doing what the body does naturally all around only then some.

From my own personal experience I know the same drug is not the same depending on how it is delivered. I have some basic understanding of pharmacology as well but am not a chemist. I know the thought of IV freaks people out because of the stigma attached. My intent was not to step on peoples morals.

If you need to resort to such measures you are obviously not cut out for BBing...and you really havent thought this through as the growth process doesnt happen in the gym so spiking test while training does not create an anabolic window...muscular growth happens while we rest. The idea of IV is not the issue it is that someone with little to no experience is suggesting IV with a product in suspension and who obviously hasn't researched possible complications...that is not only stupid but irresponsible.
P

[Praetorian]

Very interesting! Looks like some of us owe japh and apology :ht

Excuse me...you think injecting a suspension IV is fine?
P

[faller]

Excuse me...you think injecting a suspension IV is fine?
P

No, i said:


Very interesting! Looks like some of us owe japh and apology :ht

[Praetorian]

No, i said:

For?
P

[faller]

For?
P

Huh?

[Praetorian]

Huh?

What is the apology for?
P

[japh]

I sincerely apologize P. if it came off like I was suggesting that anyone do this or that suspension was suitable for this. That was not my intent. That would be irresposible, you're right.

I had the thought which I found interesting.

I knew it was possible in theory but am not a chemist and so was not exactly sure how. I was called "stupid" many times for this and thats OK. The funny thing is if any of those guys actually knew me personally and we talked about it casually purely for interests sake it wouldn't have been that way. People assume too much on line.

Discussing it here was meant to be my research. I was just curious how it was possible and what effects it might have on the body in theory. If that makes me a "bad guy" so be it.

Purely from an academic standpoint I thought others might find the idea (nothing more) interesting. I know I do. I find many "ideas" interesting in life but have no intention of acting on them. I find insulin interesting but don't do that either.

I can still gain 30 more lbs (muscle) at least just running basic cycles (test/tren or test/deca/dbol) which is all I will ever want if I decide to dedicate myself to bodybuilding over the next 5 years. Thats the plan anyways :)

I've gained 30 lbs in 30 days just running test at 600 mgs a week and my bench has gone from 335 to 425 in 4 weeks (thats how I strained my bicep tendons) and deadlift has gone from not having deadlifted in 3 years (herniated discs which required back surgery) to 580 in 4 weeks. Those lifts are nothing special but I think the rate of progress has been above average. I plan on going much higher. I had been natural for just about 2 years prior. I understand training and nutrition to a degree and have descent genetics. I have personal strength goals and would like to compete as a bodybuilder in 5 years now that I have to decided to use anabolics again. I am just in my infancy and know that. I do my best to keep my ego in check.


I think in hindsight a non bodybuilding forum with a bunch off egghead academics would have been more suitable place for an unbiased conversation. I apologize if anyone has taken this thread personally.

Just for the record, if you're not a doctor don't inject yourself IV with anything.

[japh]

I might be wrong but I think fallers comment about the apology was based on the fact that everyone called me "stupid" for suggesting that "IV testosterone " was even possible when in fact it is.

Just to be clear. Theres a difference between that and saying that just because it is possible people should start doing it.

I think things tend to get lost in translation sometimes on line :(

[razorsedge]

Japh..it's Sunday. Relax..there is no need for apologies.

You posted up a question and threw it out for discussion which digressed from inquiring and perhaps constructive to well...maybe.. a little demeaning and belittling. Nobody thinks your stupid and I agree that the interpretation gets screwed up lots when we communicate thru posting and not personal dialogue. Don't worry about it...we're all big boys (and gals).

I posted something the other day on the board here about how many queries threads have turned into "critical" lately and I think it takes lots away from the board. I know a couple pretty senior members don't post much anymore due to this trend which is our loss here at CBB. We have many very knowledgable people, in fact many could be classed as experts, here on the board and the more we continue to follow this trend, the more we will lose.

Just my opinion...:moon

[japh]

Thank-you razorsedge

[Talo]

I had an iv put in me last week and I passed out - lol - but that's something totally different !

:)

[BMac]

I had an iv put in me last week and I passed out - lol - but that's something totally different !

:)

scared of needles? :D

[Talo]

Haha . I don't like them , that's forsure.

[faller]

What is the apology for?
P

AAHHH...

After reading BBB's post and some of our comments prior i realized that some of us were a bit too quick to jump on the flame wagon is all. BBB's post was thought provoking, some of our posts were demeaning, sarcastic and lacking any constructive info, positive or negative, that's what i was apologizing for..

Ahhh to have the power of the pen, so much misunderstanding would be avoided.

[Praetorian]

AAHHH...

After reading BBB's post and some of our comments prior i realized that some of us were a bit too quick to jump on the flame wagon is all. BBB's post was thought provoking, some of our posts were demeaning, sarcastic and lacking any constructive info, positive or negative, that's what i was apologizing for..

Ahhh to have the power of the pen, so much misunderstanding would be avoided.

I am the last person on here to flame anyone and I spend alot of my time volunteering experience and information to help others with their BB efforts. Everyone on this board assumes responsibility when posting comments or questions and when someone posts something can could lead others to follow and possibly serious health consequences that is irresponsible to say the least. A post like that is definitely not considered constructive...this would have been avoided if that person had done some research before hand...ie PE etc It is also extremely annoying that many believe the road to massive muscle is all about drugs, or magic concoctions, or exotic stacks etc...that is ridiculous. 90% of gains are made in this sport because of nutrition and training and genetics...and trust me if I had a nickel for every time Ive heard "my training is awesome" or "my diet is down to a science" and then you see exactly how shitty both are I'd be Bill Gates by now. If you cant grow on a bit of test and an anabolic you are in the wrong sport period.
P

[faller]

I am the last person on here to flame anyone and I spend alot of my time volunteering experience and information to help others with their BB efforts.

I've said to the contrary??

Everyone on this board assumes responsibility when posting comments or questions and when someone posts something can could lead others to follow and possibly serious health consequences that is irresponsible to say the least. A post like that is definitely not considered constructive...this would have been avoided if that person had done some research before hand...

Reread OP's post, nowhere did he say "go and do this", it was a question... Asking questions is part of doing research, particapateing on the board and stimulateing board activity.


ie PE etc It is also extremely annoying that many believe the road to massive muscle is all about drugs, or magic concoctions, or exotic stacks etc...that is ridiculous. 90% of gains are made in this sport because of nutrition and training and genetics...and trust me if I had a nickel for every time Ive heard "my training is awesome" or "my diet is down to a science" and then you see exactly how shitty both are I'd be Bill Gates by now. If you cant grow on a bit of test and an anabolic you are in the wrong sport period.

Again, reread OP's post... Not on topic..

..............

[Praetorian]

Originally Posted by Praetorian View Post
I am the last person on here to flame anyone and I spend alot of my time volunteering experience and information to help others with their BB efforts.

I've said to the contrary?? *** Sorry I didnt mean to imply you personally said that....it was just an FYI

Everyone on this board assumes responsibility when posting comments or questions and when someone posts something can could lead others to follow and possibly serious health consequences that is irresponsible to say the least. A post like that is definitely not considered constructive...this would have been avoided if that person had done some research before hand...

Reread OP's post, nowhere did he say "go and do this", it was a question... Asking questions is part of doing research, participating on the board and stimulateing board activity.

***sorry posting something ridiculous like that does not justify it as constructive or stimulating board activity...no he didnt say go and do it but people get ideas and dont need to be specifically told...it is blatantly irresponsible to post that shit when a bit of research could be done and the negative consequences uncovered...as i said people om this board have a responsibility as well


ie PE etc It is also extremely annoying that many believe the road to massive muscle is all about drugs, or magic concoctions, or exotic stacks etc...that is ridiculous. 90% of gains are made in this sport because of nutrition and training and genetics...and trust me if I had a nickel for every time Ive heard "my training is awesome" or "my diet is down to a science" and then you see exactly how shitty both are I'd be Bill Gates by now. If you cant grow on a bit of test and an anabolic you are in the wrong sport period.

Again, reread OP's post... Not on topic..

***wrong the very essence of the post is looking for an exotic IV stack or drug affect because they are not getting it from the aas they are already using...people dont resort to such things because they are making fantastic gains




P

[faller]

I don't know P, its as if we're reading the same thing but reading something different into it,,, I guess this where the "power of the pen applies"?, lol.

How about if we agree to disagree? :)

[natenator]

I personally think this thread should be deleted.

It's not a type of thread we need discussed on this site. Let people go elsewhere to learn about their experiments.

BBB is in a certifiable league of his own :D

[faller]

I personally think this thread should be deleted.

It's not a type of thread we need discussed on this site. Let people go elsewhere to learn about their experiments.

Why?? isn't anything said on this board in regards to AAS for entertainment purpose's? No one here would seriously partake in anything illegal i'm sure..As the OP clearly stated in his first sentence "This is purely for discussion sake". So lets discuss and have fun with it :D

[razorsedge]

:wtf

Maybe everyone needs to be sent to their room for a time out....LOL. Bit of test starting to flow here...

We should all agree to meet somewhere and have a beer and discuss this further...:beer

[maximus14]

i know i dont post much here anymore, but some of you may know me from the other boards we are on together, but i have to agree with P and Nate on this one, i understand that this is for discussion and entertainment purpises only but, as P stated you may have some guy whos diet, training arent spot on, and they have resorted to using performance enhancing supplements and arent seeing the desired results due to the lack of proper nutrition, training, and rest and they read a post like this and think hey this must be the way to do it, and end up in the hospital or worse, the morgue, IMO this thread should be deleted for safety purposes, again just my .02, sorry for the rant guys

[faller]

Having your hand held from cradle to grave? Its the Canadian way :)

If thats the case M14 I'd venture a guess that half the threads in this sub forum would run under that category and should be deleted.. There is NO advice given from japh, he clearly states "This is purely for discussion sake".

I hope it doesn't get deleted, which i'm sure if it was going to be it would have happened already..

[ironwill]

Thinning of the herd.....:shock
Id like to think this is a place where we can still discuss with open minds, as that was the disclaimer made from the opening statement.........Hell ive heard way more stupid questions reading the regular forum.....Its a queezy subject, but i think we are smart enough to understand it is not a logical thing to do, maybe this thread stopped someone from trying it out.......:cflag

[Prisoner#22]

I think the risk vs reward on iv injections of steroids is just not there.
Just think of the impraticality of it. I don't know the maximum mg concentration you could carry in a disolved cylcodextrin sollution, it may need an iv drip for all I know. Very impractical. Injections of test suspension or dbol suspension pre and/ or post workout via IM would likely be as effective, or even just dropping your tablets around those times.

From what I know, Steroids are a turn key mechanism that inables the cell to build muscle and enlarge. In order to do so, the cell needs energy and nutrients. As far as I know, the switch is either on or off, if you have enough AAS in your system to overcome your binding proteins, then it is on, irregardless of what else you are injecting. Conversley an instance where route of administration can change results, think about the delivery of nutrients via insulin and the pulsation of GH that naturally occurs. The Administration route of injections of HGH makes a difference vs iv or subcu injection because this is the way the body works. I'm not going to advocate IV insulin use, but GHand insulin are secreted in pulses, (with the exception that the pancrease does maintain a low basal rate of insulin) With AAS the switch remains on... There is no natural very low state vs very high state of testosterone, so because in natural states, the physiology of the hpta doesn't work the same way as HGH secretion or insulin secretion, I don't believe that injecting testosterone IV vs IM or oral administration is going to make a big difference in results, Maybe none really at all. Definitely in my opinion not enough to risk your health over.

[ironwill]

good post P22

[Praetorian]

I think the risk vs reward on iv injections of steroids is just not there.
Just think of the impraticality of it. I don't know the maximum mg concentration you could carry in a disolved cylcodextrin sollution, it may need an iv drip for all I know. Very impractical. Injections of test suspension or dbol suspension pre and/ or post workout via IM would likely be as effective, or even just dropping your tablets around those times.

From what I know, Steroids are a turn key mechanism that inables the cell to build muscle and enlarge. In order to do so, the cell needs energy and nutrients. As far as I know, the switch is either on or off, if you have enough AAS in your system to overcome your binding proteins, then it is on, irregardless of what else you are injecting. Conversley an instance where route of administration can change results, think about the delivery of nutrients via insulin and the pulsation of GH that naturally occurs. The Administration route of injections of HGH makes a difference vs iv or subcu injection because this is the way the body works. I'm not going to advocate IV insulin use, but GHand insulin are secreted in pulses, (with the exception that the pancrease does maintain a low basal rate of insulin) With AAS the switch remains on... There is no natural very low state vs very high state of testosterone, so because in natural states, the physiology of the hpta doesn't work the same way as HGH secretion or insulin secretion, I don't believe that injecting testosterone IV vs IM or oral administration is going to make a big difference in results, Maybe none really at all. Definitely in my opinion not enough to risk your health over.

You are absolutely correct P22 the most benefit from exogenous aas is when blood levels are actually kept very stable...this also prevents many of the associated side effects as well...thus enabling the question of IV administration moot.
P

[O-Train]

Unless you inserted an IV catheter. Figured out the concentration and set the flow so that you were recieving the desired amount of drug. You could even have blood taken to check your levels and adjust as needed. As long as you're comfortable having a catheter stuck in you 24/7...just saying :D

Just noticed that p22 mentioned an IV drip too...and obviously this post is meant to be facetious.

[cog]

Unless you inserted an IV catheter. Figured out the concentration and set the flow so that you were recieving the desired amount of drug. You could even have blood taken to check your levels and adjust as needed. As long as you're comfortable having a catheter stuck in you 24/7...just saying :D

Just noticed that p22 mentioned an IV drip too...and obviously this post is meant to be facetious.

Some people have done the IV drip...but it's at night with GH...a friend close to a big power athlete told me about it a few years ago.Involves the complete kit...guys wife was a nurse.

[Prisoner#22]

Some people have done the IV drip...but it's at night with GH...a friend close to a big power athlete told me about it a few years ago.Involves the complete kit...guys wife was a nurse.

likely an exercise in futility!

[cog]

likely an exercise in futility!

Apparently not.But there was some other aspect that had to be monitored and I can't remember what it was.He was at 340 for some time.

[Feenom]

Taking steroids IV feels a little too junkie for me.