SD-200 Tongkat ali root

[sdonnell]

Has anyone heard of this product? from the rainforest in sumatra. My dad started recently using it and says he has felt the effects within 2 days. It is said to double your testosterone production and raises the bodies level of free testosterone. An all natural.

anyone seen results with body building for it? just wondering as it seems like a very cool test booster

[Baconbits]

yeah, I use it to lower shbg. It works really well. Also known as LJ100, True Protein carries it.

[bigtavi8]

I have that exact one. A friend i know uses it for libido (hes actually a doc) and he hooked me up with a huge bottle of it. This dude believes in it so much he makes 1000 dollar orders. I have it but havent tried it yet. He claims his bloodwork showed a marked increase in testosterone over time and he feels a lot better.

[Sandwiches]

LJ100 is awesome stuff guys, great for general use and great for PCT.. for PCT i would start it right after my last shot and carrying it thro till about a month or so after PCT is finished

[O-Train]

http://www.nutrilearn.com/hp/lj100.html ftw

This information was brought to you by...our sponsors...aka...the company that makes the product. Strange that they only have good things to say. Come on guys...I shouldn't have to act as your online common sense...

[MuSuLPhReAk]

This looks real. It's got studies to back it.


An article on the website of the scientific journal Nature referred to Eurycoma longifolia as Malaysia's home-grown Viagra and cited "increased sexual desire, enhanced performance and general well-being".[7] This journal article is also indexed on Medline, but without abstract.[7]

Some scientific studies found that it enhances sexual characteristics and performance in rodents.[8][9][10] Other laboratory animal tests have produced positive indications, with one extract having been observed to increase sexual activity in mature rats, including arousal, sniffing, and mounting behavior.

In an experiment conducted on male rats, it was found that eurycoma longifolia increases sperm count. The authors also reported that the plasma testosterone level of Eurycoma longifolia extract treated rats "was significantly increased when compared with that of the control and infertile animals."[11]

Another group of scientists confirmed that Eurycoma longifolia has the capacity to "reverse the inhibitory effects of estrogen on testosterone production and spermatogenesis."[12]

One Medline-indexed journal article cited as result that Eurycoma longifalia had an effect similar to testosterone replacement therapy in counteracting ostereoposis.[13]

An Italian study on Eurycoma longifolia noted improved sexual performance in lab animals and concluded that the "effect could be mainly ascribed to increased testosterone levels."[14]

After scientists investigating Eurycoma longifolia's effect on sexual parameters had established that sexualizing effects went hand-in-hand with increased testoterone tone, researchers in the field of sports medicine started to look into the anabolic potential of the plant.

In a placebo-controlled human study with healthy young men in a weight-training program, it was found that "the lean body mass of the treatment group showed a significant increment, from 52.26 (7.18) kg to 54.39 (7.43) kg (p = 0.012)." Furthermore, "the increase in strength in the treatment group was larger than in the placebo group (6.78% and 2.77% respectively)… The mean arm circumference of the treatment group increased significantly by 1.8 cm after the supplementation… but there was no significant increase in the placebo group." The results of the study were published in the peer-reviewed British Journal of Sports Medicine.[15]

The anabolic impact of Eurycoma longifolia has been confirmed in the animal model, when the size and weight of just one muscle was measured in treated and untreated rats of equal size. "Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle…"[6]

Because of Eurycoma longifolia's testosterone-enhancing capacity, it has been included, at least by name, in numerous supplements, marketed primarily to bodybuilding men. One randomly selected Internet site selling bodybuilding supplements[16] listed 58 different products claiming to be Eurycoma longifolia or contain it as one of many ingredients. In gym circles, Eurycoma longifolia Jack is commonly referred to as Longjack.[17][18]

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongkat_ali


From what I read, the real problem is that a lot of companies are selling fake powders for this product. Some are lacing it with viagra and some is just fake stuff. But the actual Tongkat Ali (Eurycoma longifolia) has studies backing it's effect in both human and rats. Those who have used this stuff, it's a good time to chime in and let us know if it's good or not, especially to bounce back during pct.

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Also special note


A large number of Malaysian Eurycoma longifolia products (36 out of 100) have been shown to be contaminated with mercury beyond legally permitted limits.

[O-Train]

Looks like I rocked the boat a little bit. All I can say is that when I researched this compound in University for a paper on aphrodisiacs it was one of the products with more research behind it. Along with yohimbine, tribulus and a few others. I wasn't trying to say it doesn't work. What I was getting at is that the source of information is very important. Some studies will say it works great and some will say it doesn't do anything. Skeptics will tell you it's crap and people trying to make money will obviously tell you the opposite.

So to really figure out if it works you need to a) take it for yourself (although placebo effect can be huge)

or b) Look critically at the REAL research that was done, who sponsored it, what methods were used, sample size, duration, blinding, etc...not all research (even published, peer reviewed research) is the same. It's only too easy to make things look a certain way when you want a particular outcome.

With that being said, anything that has the effects of a drug will be classified and controlled as such. This product has been known about for a while and I suspect that if it really did half of what is advertised it would be just a little more popular. I've heard increased T levels, curing ED, increased sperm count, etc...These are big $$$ issues so why arn't big pharm companies cashing in? The simple answer is that most natural health products don't do anything or are too sketchy for drug companies. When it comes to natural health products I will always be skeptical as everyone should be.

[Baconbits]

So to really figure out if it works you need to a) take it for yourself (although placebo effect can be huge)

Placebo effect or not, it works for me. It's effects are very noticeable, but you are right it has to come from a good quality source.

With that being said, anything that has the effects of a drug will be classified and controlled as such..

Not necessarily true when it comes to supplements. Look at 1,3 Dimeth and even pro hormones for example.


I know that True Protein only carries quality products. They test all their raw materials before making them available to the public.

[O-Train]

Not necessarily true when it comes to supplements. Look at 1,3 Dimeth and even pro hormones for example.


I know that True Protein only carries quality products. They test all their raw materials before making them available to the public.

Well, as long as you know :). I remember actually having a discussion with a guy from TP on IntenseMuscle. Everything they were claiming about a particular supplement went entirely against everything I was reading on PubMed. But they tested it so I guess I should just assume they know best. The discussion was concerning waxy maize and insulin response.

Anything designed to mimic a hormone is eventually put into the same category. The supplement industry just happens to be one step ahead...which shouldn't come as a surprise. Although I think with the new bill that was passed...Health Canada may be just a little bit more on top of things. From what you're saying Pro Hormones are legal to buy in Canada? Because I thought they weren't.

[Baconbits]

From what you're saying Pro Hormones are legal to buy in Canada? Because I thought they weren't.

Maybe pro hormones was a bad example, but there are lots of herbs that have drug like effects especially in ayurvedic medicine that are legal

[Baconbits]

Well, as long as you know :). I remember actually having a discussion with a guy from TP on IntenseMuscle. Everything they were claiming about a particular supplement went entirely against everything I was reading on PubMed. But they tested it so I guess I should just assume they know best. The discussion was concerning waxy maize and insulin response.


I'm not talking about a company claiming what a supplement does but a company that tests the purity of their raw materials.

[Mr.Freeze]

Looks like I rocked the boat a little bit. All I can say is that when I researched this compound in University for a paper on aphrodisiacs it was one of the products with more research behind it. Along with yohimbine, tribulus and a few others. I wasn't trying to say it doesn't work. What I was getting at is that the source of information is very important. Some studies will say it works great and some will say it doesn't do anything. Skeptics will tell you it's crap and people trying to make money will obviously tell you the opposite.

So to really figure out if it works you need to a) take it for yourself (although placebo effect can be huge)

or b) Look critically at the REAL research that was done, who sponsored it, what methods were used, sample size, duration, blinding, etc...not all research (even published, peer reviewed research) is the same. It's only too easy to make things look a certain way when you want a particular outcome.

With that being said, anything that has the effects of a drug will be classified and controlled as such. This product has been known about for a while and I suspect that if it really did half of what is advertised it would be just a little more popular. I've heard increased T levels, curing ED, increased sperm count, etc...These are big $$$ issues so why arn't big pharm companies cashing in? The simple answer is that most natural health products don't do anything or are too sketchy for drug companies. When it comes to natural health products I will always be skeptical as everyone should be.

i agree with you on 95% of what you said BUT some natural health products does work, have you ever tried lets say 5-HTP to fight anxiety?

[O-Train]

I'm not talking about a company claiming what a supplement does but a company that tests the purity of their raw materials.

Which is in reference to what MP mentioned. I was refering to a source of information being also the source of a product. I agree that TP does test and they do have high quality raw materials.

[O-Train]

i agree with you on 95% of what you said BUT some natural health products does work, have you ever tried lets say 5-HTP to fight anxiety?

No I havn't. Although as another example. I have used creatine and I would agree that it works. The problem being though that to find the products that do work you may have to try a lot of other ones that all claim to do the same thing.

I wasn't trying to say all natural health products are ineffective. However I would say most have inflated claims, misleading advertising/marketing or are just not effective. So I think we agree.

I would just like for people to demand better evidence and be more skeptical. Ask lots of questions and not just assume they are getting the whole picture from one source.

[Mr.Freeze]

now i agree with 100% :D

[MuSuLPhReAk]

No I havn't. Although as another example. I have used creatine and I would agree that it works. The problem being though that to find the products that do work you may have to try a lot of other ones that all claim to do the same thing.

I wasn't trying to say all natural health products are ineffective. However I would say most have inflated claims, misleading advertising/marketing or are just not effective. So I think we agree.
I would just like for people to demand better evidence and be more skeptical. Ask lots of questions and not just assume they are getting the whole picture from one source.

We need a like button here like facebook. This is in any market, not just supplements. Everyone wants to toot their product as the second coming of Christ just to make a buck. For me to consider giving this product a shot, I'm looking for a study that actually does bloodwork tests to see if it increases anything. I won't knock it and I won't promote it as this thread was the first time I ever heard of it. Still researching it.

[Mr.Freeze]

Well, as long as you know :). I remember actually having a discussion with a guy from TP on IntenseMuscle. Everything they were claiming about a particular supplement went entirely against everything I was reading on PubMed. But they tested it so I guess I should just assume they know best. The discussion was concerning waxy maize and insulin response. Anything designed to mimic a hormone is eventually put into the same category. The supplement industry just happens to be one step ahead...which shouldn't come as a surprise. Although I think with the new bill that was passed...Health Canada may be just a little bit more on top of things. From what you're saying Pro Hormones are legal to buy in Canada? Because I thought they weren't.

let me guess, they were saying thay waxy maze add a higher GI then dextrose? lol

[O-Train]

let me guess, they were saying thay waxy maze add a higher GI then dextrose? lol

I can't remember and it's very possible that what they were saying was right and I was wrong. I normally don't like online articles on bodybuilding websites but I found this one to be informtive and at least not have an obvious bias:

bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy_maize_starch_myth.htm

I'm going to run a search on PubMed relating to tongkat ali (using other names too) and see if I can find anything. I always end up derailing threads so maybe I can get this one back on track.

[O-Train]

I'll just post everything I find about it because there are other interesting things going on aside from weightlifting and sex :). This is all I found using the following limits: Humans, English, published in the last 10 years

Cytotoxic activity of quassinoids from Eurycoma longifolia.
Anticancer agent??? maybe
eurycomalactone (9) displayed the most potent activity against all the tested cell lines; colon 26-L5 (IC50 = 0.70 microM), B16-BL6 (IC50 = 0.59 microM), LLC (IC50 = 0.78 microM), and A549 (IC50 = 0.73 microM). These activities were comparable to clinically used anticancer agent doxorubicin (colon 26-L5, IC50 = 0.76 microM; B16-BL6, IC50 = 0.86 microM; LLC, IC50 = 0.80 microM; A549,= 0.66 IC50 microM).

More anticancer research
All the isolates were evaluated for their cytotoxic activity against a HT-1080 human fibrosarcoma cell line. Among them, 9,10-dimethoxycanthin-6-one (14, IC50 = 5.0 microM), 10-hydroxy-9-methoxycanthin-6-one (15, IC50 = 7.2 microM), dihydroniloticin (18, IC50 = 8.2 microM), and 14-deacetyleurylene (34, IC50 = 3.2 microM) displayed stronger activity than the positive control 5-FU (IC50 = 9.2 microM).

Different study, just copied the important part.
Taken together, these results suggest that F16 from E. longifolia exerts anti-proliferative action and growth inhibition on MCF-7 cells through apoptosis induction and that it may have anticancer properties.

This study is important because it shows cytotoxicity towards cancer cell lines while at the same time not effecting normal cell lines.
Cytotoxic effects of the root extracts of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.
Nurhanan MY, Azimahtol Hawariah LP, Mohd Ilham A, Mohd Shukri MA.

Biotechnology Division, Forest Research Institute Malaysia, 52109, Kepong, Selangor, Malaysia. hanan@frim.gov.my

Abstract
The methanol, n-butanol, chloroform and water extracts obtained from the root of Eurycoma longifolia Jack were assayed using methylene blue assay to evaluate its cytotoxic effect against KB, DU-145, RD, MCF-7, CaOV-3, MDBK cell lines. The results showed that all the root extracts except the water extract of E. longifolia produced significant cytotoxic effect on these cell lines. However, no significant cytotoxic effect was detected on MDBK (kidney) normal cell line. 9-methoxycanthin-6-one, an alkaloid, was detected in each extract with different intensities by reversed-phase high performance liquid chromatography.


I found more anticancer research which I've left out. It seems like there is more information on cytotoxicity than there is on sexual function and anabolism. There were also studies regarding antimalerial and anti-parasitic properties.

Eurycoma longifolia Jack in managing idiopathic male infertility.
Tambi MI, Imran MK.

Abstract
This study investigated the effect of treatment with the proprietary standardized, water-soluble extract of the root of the Malaysian plant, Eurycoma longifolia Jack, which is thought to enhance male fertility with regard to higher semen volumes, sperm concentrations, the percentage of normal sperm morphology and sperm motility in male partners of sub-fertile couples with idiopathic infertility. A total of 350 patients were given 200 mg of the extract daily and follow-up semen analyses were performed every 3 months for 9 months. Of these 350 patients, 75 patients completed one full cycle of 3 months. Follow-up semen analyses in these patients showed significant improvement in all semen parameters. The proprietary extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack significantly improved the sperm quality in these patients, allowing for 11 (14.7%) spontaneous pregnancies.
I couldn't find the full text and normally an abstract gives more specific results but this one is rather vague. Also given that the infertility is idiopathic we have no idea why these men have low sperm levels and/or why the Eurycoma longifolia helped. They also don't look at testosterone at all which is too bad.

[O-Train]

There is some research using rodents which shows Tongkat Ali to have androgenic properties.

I'm posting this study for a few reasons: it shows potentially positive results, it's linked to a free full text and it's relatively straight forward and not overly complex. Just too bad it's not a human study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20126351

[O-Train]

This would be an interesting article to read but I can only access the abstract. It's interesting how they mention that tribulus grown in different soils seems ineffective because I was wondering the same thing about tongkat ali.
Phytochemicals and the breakthrough of traditional herbs in the management of sexual dysfunctions.
Adimoelja A.

School of medicine 'Hang Tuah' University, Teaching and Naval Hospital,Surabaya, Indonesia.

Abstract
Traditional herbs have been a revolutionary breakthrough in the management of erectile dysfunction and have become known world-wide as an 'instant' treatment. The modern view of the management of erectile dysfunction subscribes to a single etiology, i.e. the mechanism of erection. A large number of pharmacological agents are orally consumed and vasoactive agents inserted intraurethrally or injected intrapenially to regain good erection. Modern phytochemicals have developed from traditional herbs. Phytochemicals focus their mechanism of healing action to the root cause, i.e. the inability to control the proper function of the whole body system. Hence phytochemicals manage erectile dysfunction in the frame of sexual dysfunction as a whole entity. Protodioscin is a phytochemical agent derived from Tribulus terrestris L plant, which has been clinically proven to improve sexual desire and enhance erection via the conversion of protodioscine to DHEA (De-Hydro-Epi-Androsterone). Preliminary observations suggest that Tribulus terrestris L grown on different soils does not consistently produce the active component Protodioscin. Further photochemical studies of many other herbal plants are needed to explain the inconsistent results found with other herbal plants, such as in diversities of Ginseng, Eurycoma longifolia, Pimpinella pruacen, Muara puama, Ginkgo biloba, Yohimbe etc.

[bigtavi8]

OTRAIN. Thanks for those studies your one of the most intelligent, valuable members we have here. I appreciate ur time and love the articles u posted. Good reading material as i wanted to see some real evidence that this stuff does what its supposed to.

[O-Train]

^^^ I appreciate you saying that. ^^^ More research is definitely needed.

This thread made me think of a supplement containing E longifolia, T terrestris and ZMA (zinc, magnesium, B6). A quick google search revealed that a supplement like this already exists (BSN Axis Hit) but I wonder how effective it is because the MATRIX disguises the amounts of most ingredients. Plus the list of ingredients is really long and all contained in a tablet which makes me think potency would suffer.

Anyone heard of Sci-Fit 3 Test Stack before? Kinda exactly along the lines of what I was thinking of but I'm not very familiar with DHB: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sf/3test.html

What I did find out about DHB is that it is a particular furocoumarin found in grapefruit juice. It's primary role seems to be inhibition of cytochrome P450 (I know it's Wiki...but for this it's definitely adequate) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_P450

So the claim of increased bioavailability due to DHB may very well be true. However, what is concerning is the potential for harmful drug interactions resulting from Cytochrome P450 inhibition.
Furocoumarins from grapefruit juice and their effect on human CYP 3A4 and CYP 1B1 isoenzymes.
Girennavar B, Poulose SM, Jayaprakasha GK, Bhat NG, Patil BS.

Vegetable and Fruit Improvement Center, Department of Horticultural Sciences, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77843, USA.

Abstract
Bioactive compounds present in grapefruit juice are known to increase the bioavailability of certain medications by acting as potent CYP 3A4 inhibitors. An efficient technique has been developed for isolation and purification of three furocoumarins. The isolated compounds have been tested for the inhibition of human CYP 1B1 isoform using specific substrates. Grapefruit juice was extracted with ethyl acetate (EtOAc) and the dried extract was loaded onto silica gel column chromatography. Further, column fractions were subjected to preparative HPLC to obtain three compounds. The purity of these compounds was analyzed by HPLC and structures were determined by NMR studies. The identified compounds, bergamottin, 6',7'-dihydroxybergamottin (DHB), and paradisin-A, were tested for their inhibitory effects on hydroxylase and O-dealkylase activities of human cytochrome P450 isoenzymes CYP 3A4 and CYP 1B1. Paradisin-A was found to be a potent CYP 3A4 inhibitor with an IC50 of 1.2 microM followed by DHB and bergamottin. All three compounds showed a substantial inhibitory effect on CYP 3A4 below 10 microM. Inhibitory effects on CYP 1B1 exhibited a greater variation due to the specificity of substrates. Paradisin A showed an IC50 of 3.56+/-0.12 microM for the ethoxy resorufin O-dealkylase (EROD) activity and 33.56+/-0.72 microM for the benzyloxy resorufin (BROD). DHB and bergamottin showed considerable variations for EROD and BROD activities with an IC50 of 7.17 microM and 13.86 microM, respectively.

Has anyone tried this product and/or would anyone like to play guinea pig? I'd love to but my wife is wary of Tribulus because last time I took it she got pregnant lol. I won't say for sure that it will work but I do like that amounts of ingredients are listed and I like that it is in capsule not tablet form. I also like that there are relatively few ingredients. Although I've never heard of this company before so I'm not sure if it's a large or small company and/or what kind of quality control they have implemented.

[O-Train]

I just realized something that I'm sure some other people may have already figured out or known. If you took DHB, or from what I understand, if you drank grapefruit juice with/shortly before taking oral drugs. You would decrease the intestinal first-pass metabolism caused by cytochrome P450. Thus making the oral drugs more bioavailable. Which is exactly what I stated in the post above but it may be a lot more interesting for some when considering pharmaceutical applications.

I found an old thread discussing this topic: http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3413&highlight=DHB+p450

It's too bad you can't selectively inhibit intestinal first-pass metabolism but since you can't it makes me wonder. It's worrisome to think that your body may be inhibited in breaking down potentially dangerous compounds (aside from the ones you meant to take). So I guess this all falls into the use at your own risk category.

[alfred76]

You have to worry more about the stuff you swallow, rather than what your body is breaking it down into. For example, the LJ100 tongkat ali
1:100 extract is made with stearic acid. Stearic acid is made from animal cadavers and may contain hormonal residues with estrogenic effects. Many other supplements are stretched with stearic acid. See the LJ100 label from Source Naturals.