Female Bodybuilding days may be numbered....

[K-Max]

If the rumor is official, and sadly, it looks like it may be official:

Posted by Issac Hinds on http://www.siouxcountry.com/showthread.php?p=361006#post361006


Those of you wanting some clarification... This is from Bob Chic, the IFBB Pro Athlete's rep as posted on GETBIG.com
You're a little off on the title and on why its being done...here are some facts

Yes, there is a new division that will be put in place, it's called "WOMENS PHYSIQUE DIVISION"

It will not replacing WBB, it's a whole different division

They will not wear heels

WBB has phased itself out with numbers dwindling to the point that we can no longer justify it

This new division has NOTHING to do with any of the others in terms of any rule changes as you mentioned, there will be no changes to Figure, bikini.

The WPD will run much like a FBB competition except for a few things...the girls will do quarter turns, mandatories, routine...difference will be the poses will be restructured to be more feminine and the physiques will resemble more of the physiques of WBB in the early to mid 80's...

Initially, there will be only one class...as numbers grow, so will the class sizes/ structure

Figure girls that are too hard for figure would fit in , as would the same for Fitness...FBB would have to scale it WAY down to even have a chance of fitting into the criteria. This will not resemble FBB by any stretch as to what it is today.

Hope this clarifies any questions that may come up....
Those who could/should do well in this division (in my opinion) Juliana Malacarne & Larissa Reiss.

[razorsedge]

You could see something like this coming....UNFORTUNATELY. When you look at the big pic, since they introduced bikini, things on the womens side have been on the slide. The bikini has no business being in the same show or under the same umbrella as the other 3 categories. The ladies in the figure , fitness and BB actually hit the gym and work out...there are mandatory poses or moves that allow comparison...figure girls have to be as confused as the BB girls. One year they are too muscular as they want the softer more fem look and the next year, the muscled look is in. Same thing consistently happens in BB... the answer isn't removing the BB category but clearly defining the parameters that will be judged...same for figure. Last year at CBB Nationals (2009), the judges did the right thing giving the nod to Lyris....that is the look that they should be looking at in all the shows. A nice muscled X frame..not a woman who we have to double take to ensure she hasn't come out before she is supposed to (looks like a man). Take that bikini division and put it in the model search or Fame side. Keep true fitness athletes separate. They are not solely surgically enhanced women who come out in heels and spin their behinds to the crowd....hey I'm a guy and like nice looking women...but I'm a fan of the sport and know the work that the figure, fitness and BB girls endure to hit the stage. Same doesn't happen in the bikini.

This, if it happens, will be a sad day....basically, it's BS....it's an iron sport...BB has to stay IMO.

[GYMBRAT]

to me, bikini has NO place in the actual BBing part of the world what so ever.

My explanation is nearly identical to razorsedge on this subject!!!

GB

[ironwill]

I personally welcome some change to womens BB.....I like the physiques like they were in the 80s etc, Lenda Murray, Corey Everson etc....I think ladies like Nicole Ball, on a pro level are much more appealing,and feminine looking and more welcomed by general public than some of the lets Say, Iris Kyle traits etc....

I Hope that it doesnt get to carried away though....
No offense to anyone....

[Dryvrgrl]

to me, bikini has NO place in the actual BBing part of the world what so ever.

My explanation is nearly identical to razorsedge on this subject!!!

GB

X3

I think pretty much top 5 at CBBF Nationals in figures could safely cross over to this "new" division and do weel... Canadian girls are genreally over muscled compared to US counterparts in figures...

and while I HATE this news on principal!!!!!.... it's good news to girls like me!... I'll NEVER carry the muscle of Iris Kyle.. I'll never go to the extremes some of those ladies will go to, but I will work my ass off to get the physique I desire... Muscular, yet Femminine!

I dont know if it will be Bodybuilding Light or Figures Hard...

I posted on another site that the biggest mistake with this marketing is Pro prize money. they will not suddenly award MORE money... they'll just spread the "womens prize money" a little thinner... No marketing opportunities for womens BB (porn aside ;) ) even figures girls are being passed over in marketing campaigns for Bikini pros... water it down a little more... then a little more... Pisses me off...

Ok Im angry again and typing far too aggressively!

[K-Max]

X3

I think pretty much top 5 at CBBF Nationals in figures could safely cross over to this "new" division and do weel... Canadian girls are genreally over muscled compared to US counterparts in figures...

I dont know if it will be Bodybuilding Light or Figures Hard...

I tend to think "Figure Hard" since I see a trend for the figure ladies who end up "too muscular" needing to head someplace higher on the muscular scale.

I'll be on record as saying this is the correct decision from a business perspective. Personally, I hate it, because I love women like that.

So now what will happen to the awesome hardcore and massive ladies and who will support them after FBB becomes 'unjustified?'

[steve_d]

I tend to think "Figure Hard" since I see a trend for the figure ladies who end up "too muscular" needing to head someplace higher on the muscular scale.

I'll be on record as saying this is the correct decision from a business perspective. Personally, I hate it, because I love women like that.

So now what will happen to the awesome hardcore and massive ladies and who will support them after FBB becomes 'unjustified?'

another federation as always!

[bcaamuscle]

I hate the fact that hardcore woman bb's are discriminated against because they don't fit a stereotype of what a woman "should" look like. It's their body, their HARD WORK and their decision. Women aren't doing it to be some sex symbol like people are used to women being. Thing is, for the general (stupid) public, this is the correct business decision in order to increase exposure and revenue.

[K-Max]

another federation as always!

Sounds good to me. Not sure I can put up enough money for it though. Who has a few couple hundred thousand I can burn-- er-- borrow?

[JMP]

I would like to see it continue , if thats the route (FBB) want to go ...why not why are we saying no when you've got great competition out there ....

[steve_d]

Only problem is that the sport will be transformed into something even more subjective. With men, its relatively simple - size, bigger is usually better. rippedness - more ripped is better. With women BB, it was basically the same.

However now you'll have a sport where bigger isn't better, or harder isn't necessarily better, but who knows where the line is? Each judge will have a different line. It turns into the same problems that figure judging faces where extremes are not favored - you have to be somewhere in the middle.

Easy to judge an extreme division, hard to judge who wins when everyone will fall somewhere in between these extremes.

[Sean Summers]

More proof that competitive bodybuilding is a business disguised as sport. Don't kid yourselves - it's all about the money.
SS

[GYMBRAT]

they need a 135lb ladies bbing class (for those ladies who refuse to make the judges happy by building themselves up to a man like build)....kinda like the 202lb class that they granted the mens division

....but yeah it will be phased out im 110% sure of it!

GB

[GYMBRAT]

I personally welcome some change to womens BB.....I like the physiques like they were in the 80s etc, Lenda Murray, Corey Everson etc....I think ladies like Nicole Ball, on a pro level are much more appealing,and feminine looking and more welcomed by general public than some of the lets Say, Iris Kyle traits etc....

I Hope that it doesnt get to carried away though....
No offense to anyone....

As for Nicole, she (and im soo proud of her for it) absolutely refuses to take her body to that "overboard" proportions for a womans body....jst for a couple yrs to making some judges happy.

Nic is close with Lenda Murray, and Lenda has always told Nic to keep her femininity! Thanks Lenda :D

In no way am I demeaning anyone whats so ever trust me. Its just little me's own opinions lol

GB

[Maria]

They say that some of the figure girls are too muscular for their class so they can do this new class but the Nicole's and Lyris's and the like would still be more muscular then the muscular figure girls. So how would they fair?

Would I be too muscular for this new class? Or am I more like the Nicole's and Lyris's out there? I know I wouldn't have the right shape for figure and wouldn't do well in that class. I don't have slender muscle bellies.

I'm afraid this new division will be like figure in that they don't know from show to show what they want or are looking for. The nice thing about women's bodybuilding is that is pretty clear cut the way it is right now. This will even be more confusing for the girls and what to bring into the competition. Sure it's great for the smaller girls but that's why we have lightweight class!

[GYMBRAT]

They say that some of the figure girls are too muscular for their class so they can do this new class but the Nicole's and Lyris's and the like would still be more muscular then the muscular figure girls. So how would they fair?

Would I be too muscular for this new class? Or am I more like the Nicole's and Lyris's out there? I know I wouldn't have the right shape for figure and wouldn't do well in that class. I don't have slender muscle bellies.

I'm afraid this new division will be like figure in that they don't know from show to show what they want or are looking for. The nice thing about women's bodybuilding is that is pretty clear cut the way it is right now. This will even be more confusing for the girls and what to bring into the competition. Sure it's great for the smaller girls but that's why we have lightweight class!


Great points made Maria for sure, I really do see what your saying!! Its exactly Nicole's thoughts on it as well....I just hope something FAIR is thought up for all you wonderfully gifted ladies is all.....in the end of this :)

GB

[steve_d]

They say that some of the figure girls are too muscular for their class so they can do this new class but the Nicole's and Lyris's and the like would still be more muscular then the muscular figure girls. So how would they fair?

Would I be too muscular for this new class? Or am I more like the Nicole's and Lyris's out there? I know I wouldn't have the right shape for figure and wouldn't do well in that class. I don't have slender muscle bellies.

I'm afraid this new division will be like figure in that they don't know from show to show what they want or are looking for. The nice thing about women's bodybuilding is that is pretty clear cut the way it is right now. This will even be more confusing for the girls and what to bring into the competition. Sure it's great for the smaller girls but that's why we have lightweight class!

That's exactly what I was refering to in my post. Its silly to add yet another division where there will never be a clear cut definition for what judges are looking for. Pointless if you ask me. Why not just add another division where each girl has to show up lean, but a portion of their score is based on picking a number out of a hat and adding it to your score. Adding a random component to it is no different than adding a division where its easy to say in words what you're looking for, but when it comes down to it, its impossible to judge objectively.

[steve_d]

Great points made Maria for sure, I really do see what your saying!! Its exactly Nicole's thoughts on it as well....I just hope something FAIR is thought up for all you wonderfully gifted ladies is all.....in the end of this :)

GB

the only thing that is fair, is to judge as objectively as possible....and this is only possible if they keep it as a true bodybuilding division, and stop using the word "feminine" as part of judging criteria. Even in bodybuilding, the way it is now for the women's side is borderline extreme subjectivity - some girls win because they look more "feminine". (ex. when lyris won last years nationals)...

If they didn't look for "femininity", and they judges it the same as men's side, zoa would have easily won. This new division will just cause more complaints to the athletes - and thats the whole point of the sport, the athletes. The problem is the revenue from the sport has nothing to do with the athletes, and thus you have a problem.

Just imagine if Mr. Olympia next year was judges on facial beauty.

[GYMBRAT]

yeah I see your point for sure. Just wouldnt want to have to be a judge for the mens facial beauty :p

[Dryvrgrl]

judging case in point.. feedback i got from 3 judges
.. come in softer
.. come in leaner
.. carb up more

and this is FITNESS... which has been around second longest!

another division to judge... I dunnnoooo

[razorsedge]

I agree with you all...more confusion in the future. It all starts at the top. IFBB think not enough pros...maybe lets look at more cards given out rather than do away with BB...there could have been 2 womens BB cards this year at the BB nationals for sure..look at how close the scoring was. They make the rules so stringent that their pro level competitors are lacking...but they are too stingy with the damn cards. You can't tell me if there were more cards available and awarded, the women that won those cards would take it lightly and hit pro shows at a level that wasn't "competitive". We all have pride and work hard to get to these shows...how many women have said the hell with it as they have been bridesmaids a few times as the criteria changes annually...one year fem, next year big, next year lean...so we lose damn good high quality athletes who get frustrated. IFBB are trying to fix something they broke.....but it's really only broke at their level. BB women have their own niche...keep it there but lay out the damn standards and follow them "consistently"....and sorry...get those bikini broads off the damn stage when the show comes in under some BB umbrella....key word "bodybuilding". Sorry I'm venting but I have a fem BB in the house taking a run at her first nationals....and now it might be the last nationals...I'm getting it hard from all angles as she is just starting to bulk up first cycle and now shes pissed...

[Praetorian]

Its not about there not being enough IFBB Pros, or giving out more Pro cards. The IFBB since the early 90's when the women started getting larger, harder and more androgenic sides were showing up decided it no longer wanted any part of female BB. The IFBB has seen womens BB as an embarrassment for the last ten years or more and would like nothing more then for it to disappear. All you have to do is look at the prize money for womens BB its absurd. BB is a business to the IFBB and they sell what the fans demand...thats not female BB...it hasnt been for years. When was the last time you saw a Pro female BB on the cover of Flex or MD?
P

[Maria]

That's exactly what I was refering to in my post. Its silly to add yet another division where there will never be a clear cut definition for what judges are looking for. Pointless if you ask me. Why not just add another division where each girl has to show up lean, but a portion of their score is based on picking a number out of a hat and adding it to your score. Adding a random component to it is no different than adding a division where its easy to say in words what you're looking for, but when it comes down to it, its impossible to judge objectively.

Sorry Steve I did see what you posted after. We agree!! :)

[Maria]

The reason why there weren't many FBB at the Olympia this year was because they only had 5 qualifiers for it. When a few of the same women compete in the same shows and the same women win the qualifiers, it cuts down on the number of women qualifying. They don't go down the line and say since so and so already qualified, then we will give it to the next girl in line. That's just not the case. They say that FBB is dwindling, when in actual fact it's not.

IFBB is finding ways to get rid of it by less shows, less cards handed out, etc, less prize money to try and deter them from competing. That's how I see it anyway. I may be wrong. LOL Some of the women are saying it's not worth it any more and they retire. It's quite obvious many of us are doing it for the love of the sport and not the money. I understand that IFBB wants to make money but they still have to keep in mind this is a sport too and if they want participants, we pay too!

The IFBB set the standards and they are still doing that by awarding the bigger women. Sorry, nothing against the bigger women! If the IFBB wants to change it they should have done it with their so called 20% reduction rule. (Not sure how to judge what is 20% smaller...) but then stick with it! They did it for one year. The very next year they go back to the bigger girls. So they are sending out the same message to get bigger again. They set the standards, then follow it! They allowed it to go the way it is. They should have fixed it a long time ago but didn't. Put the 20% rule back into place and follow that rule with the judging!! Don't throw in a new class only for more confusion!!

Just my thoughts anyway. Personally, I'm not going to worry about it until I hear from CBBF if there are any changes.

[69challenger]

here is the latest from Jim Manion's Facebook page...


"around the NPC with J.M Manion" : Men’s Physique will begin in 2011 with an IFBB Professional League
division in 2012. Men wear Board Shorts, are barefoot & will have a
posing criteria & will come on stage individually & then brought
out in groups.

...Women’s Physique will also begin in 2011, but will only be held with
NPC national competitions. Starting with NPC Jr. Nationals
then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional
competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional
League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But
the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.

**There will still be NPC Women’s Bodybuilding competitions

[K-Max]

Well, in the short term, FBB is still there. So for those who want to keep it there, better make these next couple of years count while you still can.

[tiramisu]

It's not obvious to me how the IFBB makes its money. The amateur shows rape the competitors and their families. The supplement companies rip off the gullible. Who does the IFBB steal its money from?

[BAM]

No suprise..

It's all about money.

[razorsedge]

Will they put board shorts on the women too...lol...that'll put people in the seats...agree with y'all again
here is the latest from Jim Manion's Facebook page...


"around the NPC with J.M Manion" : Men’s Physique will begin in 2011 with an IFBB Professional League
division in 2012. Men wear Board Shorts, are barefoot & will have a
posing criteria & will come on stage individually & then brought
out in groups.

...Women’s Physique will also begin in 2011, but will only be held with
NPC national competitions. Starting with NPC Jr. Nationals
then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional
competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional
League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But
the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.

**There will still be NPC Women’s Bodybuilding competitions

[JonnyO]

Mens Physique and board shorts...hell yeah Im in, screw these bikini briefs posing trunks!

[bcaamuscle]

here is the latest from Jim Manion's Facebook page...


"around the NPC with J.M Manion" : Men’s Physique will begin in 2011 with an IFBB Professional League
division in 2012. Men wear Board Shorts, are barefoot & will have a
posing criteria & will come on stage individually & then brought
out in groups.

...Women’s Physique will also begin in 2011, but will only be held with
NPC national competitions. Starting with NPC Jr. Nationals
then Team Universe, USA & Nationals. No local, state or regional
competitions will have them in 2011. Also with an IFBB Professional
League division in 2012. Details & rules still being worked out. But
the competitors will be barefoot, no heels.

**There will still be NPC Women’s Bodybuilding competitions

Sweet, time to quit squatting :hu lol

[GYMBRAT]

LOL!!!!

[fathead]

now only if they had a division with full length pants ubcpower would have something to work towards...

[SuperQT]

They say that some of the figure girls are too muscular for their class so they can do this new class but the Nicole's and Lyris's and the like would still be more muscular then the muscular figure girls. So how would they fair?

Would I be too muscular for this new class? Or am I more like the Nicole's and Lyris's out there? I know I wouldn't have the right shape for figure and wouldn't do well in that class. I don't have slender muscle bellies.

I'm afraid this new division will be like figure in that they don't know from show to show what they want or are looking for. The nice thing about women's bodybuilding is that is pretty clear cut the way it is right now. This will even be more confusing for the girls and what to bring into the competition. Sure it's great for the smaller girls but that's why we have lightweight class!

The lightwieght and middle weight classes in Canada are retarded if your over 124.5 your stuck with girls that can weight anything above that at least in the US there is lightheavy. I don't know maybe do a classic like they did with mens in Canada based on a height weight ratio.

I am looking forward to seeing what this new class will be when it will be in Canada. Sounds like it will be the happy medium between figure and bodybuilding. Pro level FBB needs a change not sure if a 4th class is the way to do it but at least its a change.

[Dryvrgrl]

Pro level FBB needs a change not sure if a 4th class is the way to do it but at least its a change.

Fifth class!! don't forget all the awesome hard working bimb-err athletes in bikini!!

[BAM]

MMmmmmm Bikini chix

[GYMBRAT]

Fifth class!! don't forget all the awesome hard working bimb-err athletes in bikini!!

LMAO....ouch :popc

[countrychic]

Looking forward to the changes ahead!

[ironwill]

Fifth class!! don't forget all the awesome hard working bimb-err athletes in bikini!!

Not very classy cutting down other competitors.......Granted i dont know that they should be on the same agenda as other bbers etc....But i think you should save your attacks for personal thoughts and coffee shop talking etc....

We are supposedly trying to attract more competitors is what i gather from MP, some folks get banned here for their attacks, and your constant attacks on pretty girls gets old...
Maybe you need to look into yourself a bit, see where this harsh mentality is stemming from, you may surprise yourself:help, in what you find..., supposedly you are a mod correct??
Im sure they may have a few names for yourself as well....I think i heard Kiebler elf one day when i was out and about, but hey, whatever!!!;)

[faller]

"Different strokes for different folks". "One mans food another mans poison". Or how about, don't judge until you have walked a mile in someone else's shoe's, not only will you be a mile away but you'll have their shoe's. :)

[Maria]

The lightwieght and middle weight classes in Canada are retarded if your over 124.5 your stuck with girls that can weight anything above that at least in the US there is lightheavy. I don't know maybe do a classic like they did with mens in Canada based on a height weight ratio.

I am looking forward to seeing what this new class will be when it will be in Canada. Sounds like it will be the happy medium between figure and bodybuilding. Pro level FBB needs a change not sure if a 4th class is the way to do it but at least its a change.

A light heavyweight class would be a good addition for women's bodybuilding!!! But this new class sounds more like a beefed up figure girl but not a lightweight bodybuilder.

Not sure when this would take affect here in Canada. It will be interesting to watch what the US does though. I would agree with you in that it isn't going to change Pro level FBB by introducing this new class. The best way is the classic bodybuilding with height/weight ratios. They have started that in Europe and it has done well! I'd rather see that personally! It would put a cap on how big a girl can get.

[GYMBRAT]

Not very classy cutting down other competitors.......Granted i dont know that they should be on the same agenda as other bbers etc....But i think you should save your attacks for personal thoughts and coffee shop talking etc....

We are supposedly trying to attract more competitors is what i gather from MP, some folks get banned here for their attacks, and your constant attacks on pretty girls gets old...
Maybe you need to look into yourself a bit, see where this harsh mentality is stemming from, you may surprise yourself:help, in what you find..., supposedly you are a mod correct??
Im sure they may have a few names for yourself as well....I think i heard Kiebler elf one day when i was out and about, but hey, whatever!!!;)

true, but I truly dont see there being a place nor need for a bikini class in the bbing world period.......it brings money and thats all it does, I think there is a place for it jst not at an actual bbing event ;)

GB

[steve_d]

While I understand the arguments AGAINST bikini, I certainly can understand its purpose. Besides, bikini is a judged sport just like bodybuilding and figure, judged on what you look like, with a certain 'criteria'. Fitness on the other hand is arguably the sport that doesn't belong on the stage. It is the only one where you are judged additionally on an ability to perform (ie, gymnastics, dance, routine, choregraphy).

For the record, I don't have a problem with any of these, since they are all similar in they're own way. Bikini, figure, fitness, and female bodybuilding all have their place on the same stage. What I have a problem with is how the same judges judge all 4 divisions when some may only be qualified to judge 1 or 2 of them.

[Dryvrgrl]

Not very classy cutting down other competitors.......Granted i dont know that they should be on the same agenda as other bbers etc....But i think you should save your attacks for personal thoughts and coffee shop talking etc....

We are supposedly trying to attract more competitors is what i gather from MP, some folks get banned here for their attacks, and your constant attacks on pretty girls gets old...
Maybe you need to look into yourself a bit, see where this harsh mentality is stemming from, you may surprise yourself:help, in what you find..., supposedly you are a mod correct??
Im sure they may have a few names for yourself as well....I think i heard Kiebler elf one day when i was out and about, but hey, whatever!!!;)

chillax beefcake!! my problem isnt with pretty girls! I rather like pretty girls.. it';s with bodybuilding being turned into a beauty beauty contest.. Its been said before, but imagine if they kept comming up with new mens divisions.. watering it down, prettying it up... Imagine someone telling Santanta (no.. imagine THREE national judges telling Santana) to cover up his tattoos because it doesn't look "femminine" aka pretty enough... WOULDN"T HAPPEN!!!... Or telling Kai Green that his hair looks stupid! .. yet how many ppl trashed Ms Canada for her hairdo... You know the pretty young thing who poses in Calvin Klein gotch?.. Imagine HIM doing articles for muscle and fitness, and being the standard set for muscle athletics.

I don't like Bikini.. NOT because I hate girls in bilini's or pretty girls, but because it is a MOCKERY of what the premise of womens physique competitions (AKA BODYBUILDING!!!!) Is about!!

and it's Elfaghetti or pippi longstocking.. anything else you heard is pure rubbish!

[ironwill]

chillax beefcake!! my problem isnt with pretty girls! I rather like pretty girls.. it';s with bodybuilding being turned into a beauty beauty contest.. Its been said before, but imagine if they kept comming up with new mens divisions.. watering it down, prettying it up... Imagine someone telling Santanta (no.. imagine THREE national judges telling Santana) to cover up his tattoos because it doesn't look "femminine" aka pretty enough... WOULDN"T HAPPEN!!!... Or telling Kai Green that his hair looks stupid! .. yet how many ppl trashed Ms Canada for her hairdo... You know the pretty young thing who poses in Calvin Klein gotch?.. Imagine HIM doing articles for muscle and fitness, and being the standard set for muscle athletics.

I don't like Bikini.. NOT because I hate girls in bilini's or pretty girls, but because it is a MOCKERY of what the premise of womens physique competitions (AKA BODYBUILDING!!!!) Is about!!

and it's Elfaghetti or pippi longstocking.. anything else you heard is pure rubbish!

Well if that is true( i dunno kinda doubt it), then you need to stop yapping about the competitors in bikini, and start talking to the judges and organizers of these contests...It gets a bit annoying hearing your incessant whining in regards to bimbos etc.....ya pickn up what im laying down.....I dont see why you would call the competitors bimbos....I still think you need to look within, to sort your issues, and leave them off the public board here....Write a few emails to your organizers.....Bikini, is not a mockery of bodybuilding (apples and oranges...or in this case...peaches and bananas)...lmao, now put the pipe down, and take a nap...Now get me some cookies!!!

GB buddy, i already said they maybe shouldnt be on the same agenda....It is about money, and it is generating money.....I dont particularly enjoy sitting for hours to see the mens show after the bikini rounds, but hey, im not putting the show on either....I saw there are as many or more folks there to watch bikini etc, once that was over, there was a half auditorium left for the rest of the show...I want to compete again, and if i have to have help by way of other shows in the same night to help keep us generating revenues so us Bodybuilders can compete, then so be it, or ill have to get out there and do some organizing of my own, which probably wouldnt go far, so thanks to anything that is keeping us afloat i say, so im outnumbered with bikini fans, and i therefore will sit and wait for the BB show that i went in to see....

Good post above Steved, agreed!!!

[GYMBRAT]

GB buddy, i already said they maybe shouldnt be on the same agenda....It is about money, and it is generating money.....I dont particularly enjoy sitting for hours to see the mens show after the bikini rounds, but hey, im not putting the show on either....I saw there are as many or more folks there to watch bikini etc, once that was over, there was a half auditorium left for the rest of the show...I want to compete again, and if i have to have help by way of other shows in the same night to help keep us generating revenues so us Bodybuilders can compete, then so be it, or ill have to get out there and do some organizing of my own, which probably wouldnt go far, so thanks to anything that is keeping us afloat i say, so im outnumbered with bikini fans, and i therefore will sit and wait for the BB show that i went in to see....


no that is 110% bro, I agree with the fact that we sat there (seemed like forever) but was worth it in the end lol......LONG ASS day though fosho mang! woh! BUT as you said,,anything to support the sport we both love right ;)

GB

[BAM]

chillax beefcake!! my problem isnt with pretty girls! I rather like pretty girls.. it';s with bodybuilding being turned into a beauty beauty contest.. Its been said before, but imagine if they kept comming up with new mens divisions.. watering it down, prettying it up... Imagine someone telling Santanta (no.. imagine THREE national judges telling Santana) to cover up his tattoos because it doesn't look "femminine" aka pretty enough... WOULDN"T HAPPEN!!!... Or telling Kai Green that his hair looks stupid! .. yet how many ppl trashed Ms Canada for her hairdo... You know the pretty young thing who poses in Calvin Klein gotch?.. Imagine HIM doing articles for muscle and fitness, and being the standard set for muscle athletics.

I don't like Bikini.. NOT because I hate girls in bilini's or pretty girls, but because it is a MOCKERY of what the premise of womens physique competitions (AKA BODYBUILDING!!!!) Is about!!

and it's Elfaghetti or pippi longstocking.. anything else you heard is pure rubbish!

Hmm,

Men are born masculine so bodybuilding pushes male masculinity to the limit.
You speak of women's physique being bastardized, but imho, a womans natural physique is feminine and soft and probably resembles more of what a bikini class competetor brings to the table. So if anything is bastardizing a woman's physique, it is female bodybuilding.

Perhaps I do not understand female bodybuilding? I dunno to me it would be the same as a guy going out of his way to try and look like a girl, and in the end would just end up being an uglier less feminine version of one.

[natenator]

Hmm,

Men are born masculine so bodybuilding pushes male masculinity to the limit.
You speak of women's physique being bastardized, but imho, a womans natural physique is feminine and soft and probably resembles more of what a bikini class competetor brings to the table. So if anything is bastardizing a woman's physique, it is female bodybuilding.

Perhaps I do not understand female bodybuilding? I dunno to me it would be the same as a guy going out of his way to try and look like a girl, and in the end would just end up being an uglier less feminine version of one.
+1

[GYMBRAT]

good point BAMster ;)

[K-Max]

imho, a womans natural physique is feminine and soft and probably resembles more of what a bikini class competetor brings to the table. So if anything is bastardizing a woman's physique, it is female bodybuilding.

Disagree 199%. A bikini gal may be good in sports but does she represent a progression of the general female athlete in sport? Nope. And the best athletes out there generally do not have bikini bodies.

If you had said, "is bastardizing a woman's universally accepted physique" I might agree.

[SuperQT]

A light heavyweight class would be a good addition for women's bodybuilding!!! But this new class sounds more like a beefed up figure girl but not a lightweight bodybuilder.

Not sure when this would take affect here in Canada. It will be interesting to watch what the US does though. I would agree with you in that it isn't going to change Pro level FBB by introducing this new class. The best way is the classic bodybuilding with height/weight ratios. They have started that in Europe and it has done well! I'd rather see that personally! It would put a cap on how big a girl can get.

My guess is that it will be pretty fast since they brought on Bikini so fast once the NPC did. I am hearing diffent things about the class like it is supose to be what FBB was back in the day of Cory and Linda that I am so all for. If its just a jacked up figure then the judging will be a bloody mess.


chillax beefcake!! my problem isnt with pretty girls! I rather like pretty girls.. it';s with bodybuilding being turned into a beauty beauty contest.. Its been said before, but imagine if they kept comming up with new mens divisions.. watering it down, prettying it up... Imagine someone telling Santanta (no.. imagine THREE national judges telling Santana) to cover up his tattoos because it doesn't look "femminine" aka pretty enough... WOULDN"T HAPPEN!!!... Or telling Kai Green that his hair looks stupid! .. yet how many ppl trashed Ms Canada for her hairdo... You know the pretty young thing who poses in Calvin Klein gotch?.. Imagine HIM doing articles for muscle and fitness, and being the standard set for muscle athletics.

I don't like Bikini.. NOT because I hate girls in bilini's or pretty girls, but because it is a MOCKERY of what the premise of womens physique competitions (AKA BODYBUILDING!!!!) Is about!!

and it's Elfaghetti or pippi longstocking.. anything else you heard is pure rubbish!



The fact is all levels of female physique contests a woman`s beauty plays into the overall presentation. I seen it plenty of times that a female who physique may be slightly off but her presentation (hair, makeup etc) better then someone who is slightly better physique wise but doesn`t have her presentation (i.e no makeup and hair is a hot mess) together and guess who gets placed higher. It may not be called out as beauty but rather presentation. As for femininity in female bodybuilding I think it has a place it is FEMALE bodybuilding after all by nature we are built different I think it’s better to accept and embrace that.

[GYMBRAT]

great points, great post SuperQT!

GB

[tiramisu]

Not very classy cutting down other competitors.......Granted i dont know that they should be on the same agenda as other bbers etc....But i think you should save your attacks for personal thoughts and coffee shop talking etc....

We are supposedly trying to attract more competitors is what i gather from MP, some folks get banned here for their attacks, and your constant attacks on pretty girls gets old...
Maybe you need to look into yourself a bit, see where this harsh mentality is stemming from, you may surprise yourself:help, in what you find..., supposedly you are a mod correct??
Im sure they may have a few names for yourself as well....I think i heard Kiebler elf one day when i was out and about, but hey, whatever!!!;)

Sometimes you need to have a sense of humour.

[tiramisu]

... I also tend to agree that bodybuilding is not the same as being pretty.

The two don't have to be mutually exclusive but a bodybuilder should be judged on their physique not their good looks. Bikini, Figure, and Fitness all require the competitor to be attractive to score points. This is NOT bodybuilding.

[Dryvrgrl]

Hmm,

Men are born masculine so bodybuilding pushes male masculinity to the limit.
.

men are born soft and plump, bald and crying... (same way most of them end up) STOP BITCHING!!!! IT ITS CALLED HUMOUR!

bodybuilding pushes muscularity to the limit!.. for both males and females!! muscularity is not the same thing as masculinity
muscular women are not masculine women.. they are muscular... this whole archaic notion that muscles are for boys and soft round asses are for girls is frustrating. You either get it, or you don't... Im done arguing my point... Bodybuilding is as much a sport for women as it is for men... and women who want muscles, are just chicks who want muscles.. not chicks who want to be guys.

[ironwill]

Sometimes you need to have a sense of humour.

ummm, i guess you didnt see my peach banana analogy......sigh, all this talent lost...

Im pretty sure you are as dry as the quaker oats i consumed prior to injecting into boiling water.....lol :gayfight

[ironwill]

men are born soft and plump, bald and crying... (same way most of them end up) STOP BITCHING!!!! IT ITS CALLED HUMOUR!

bodybuilding pushes muscularity to the limit!.. for both males and females!! muscularity is not the same thing as masculinity
muscular women are not masculine women.. they are muscular... this whole archaic notion that muscles are for boys and soft round asses are for girls is frustrating. You either get it, or you don't... Im done arguing my point... Bodybuilding is as much a sport for women as it is for men... and women who want muscles, are just chicks who want muscles.. not chicks who want to be guys.

If women want muscles, tell them to date a man with some....muahahaha, if she has time outside the kitchen of course.....

[razorsedge]

men are born soft and plump, bald and crying... (same way most of them end up) STOP BITCHING!!!! IT ITS CALLED HUMOUR!

bodybuilding pushes muscularity to the limit!.. for both males and females!! muscularity is not the same thing as masculinity
muscular women are not masculine women.. they are muscular... this whole archaic notion that muscles are for boys and soft round asses are for girls is frustrating. You either get it, or you don't... Im done arguing my point... Bodybuilding is as much a sport for women as it is for men... and women who want muscles, are just chicks who want muscles.. not chicks who want to be guys.

My best female BBing trainee, my wife, just said "right f....in on" to ur post....

[Felinecougar]

The lightwieght and middle weight classes in Canada are retarded if your over 124.5 your stuck with girls that can weight anything above that at least in the US there is lightheavy. I don't know maybe do a classic like they did with mens in Canada based on a height weight ratio.

I am looking forward to seeing what this new class will be when it will be in Canada. Sounds like it will be the happy medium between figure and bodybuilding. Pro level FBB needs a change not sure if a 4th class is the way to do it but at least its a change.


SQ...you and I both. :popc I was looking forward to going back on stage next year as a bodybuilder again. I remember a National when they decided a few weeks before, to toss in a middle weight FBB class. Imagine the women who dieted down to Lws and were then told they were changing the classes? SS your wife was in that show I think. May the judges figure this one out before I'm up there again.

My ass is to big for Figure and my pecs to large, I'm naturally vascular as well. ..so back to bodybuilding I go where I can show my spunk and sassyness...not a cloned barbie.

Agree...get bikini out of the shows.

[GYMBRAT]

well said FC haha

[faller]

this whole archaic notion that muscles are for boys and soft round asses are for girls is frustrating. You either get it, or you don't... .

It may be "archaic" and "frustrating" but it is what it is. The popularity of female BB is declineing for one reason and one reason only, men like their women with soft round asses and women themselves find muscular women unattractive.. You've lost both the men and the women from the audience.

I'm sure someone will pop in here and disagree with me and say how they like their women hard and muscular and thats kool, but for the majority of us men, about as far as we'll go is a nice sexy athletic build. Thats why female BBing took off in the 80's, Rachel Mclish was athletic looking and sexy at the same time.

[ubcpower]

now only if they had a division with full length pants ubcpower would have something to work towards...

i told you the wheelchair division is a blessing in disguise

[razorsedge]

To further the discussion on the pending female BBing and new Physique Div, great example presented itself at SWFC in New West this weekend and some discussion can be picked up on that thread and awesome vids from fitfanatik...comp # 129, a figure lady, was ripped and muscled...and won the female most shredded award but did not place in top 5 in her own division of figure short...too muscular...but if she had competed in recent NPC shows directly south in Wash state, would probably have been rewarded for her physique.

The judges are confused, not by their own doing but by the trends that have the divisions starting to "blend" together and criteria becoming clouded...same judges have to judge BB, figure, fitness and bikini...and I know none have bikini experience as it has just recently been created. I feel for them...it's a long day. WORSE, the competitors are more confused. Some trainers are confused as they don't know where the judging will be on the day of the show...do we bring our people in hard and athletic looking like 2 yrs ago or soft and smooth...one show one way and then the next another so this competitor in particular might have kicked ass early last year but can't make top 5 in div now....I'd like to hear her opinion....

And as for the female BBing of which I am big supporter and trainer ....if the women don't bring some physiques to the show that are worthy, they are cutting their own throat as the division is already on the rocks and sub par candidates (not this show but all over) are giving the organizers and associations the ammo they need to cut it...

#129...if u read these threads, get in the BBing...you worked way too hard for what you got and would likely have won the BBing overall..throw those heels out and get out there...we need you on the BB ing stage and more like you...

[fathead]

to comment on razors post...

the woman who competed in figure who won the ripped freak award has a very impressive physique (i have seen her at a couple of vancouver gyms) but in my personal opinion looked like a bodybuilder in a figure suit.

i really think she would have fit in the bodybuilding division and easily won that. i would suspect she has probably competed in bodybuilding before but that is pure speculation on my part. she carries too much muscle and is very hard compared to the other figure girls (thicker/denser muscle).

again, she has a really impressive physique but i dont think the physique they are looking for in that division.

[razorsedge]

Not going to fully agree with u there fathead...Check out the girls that won the classes at the Nationals this year...all had great delts, good backs, glutes...they were harder physiques...that was in Aug...now in Nov...softer please...and the confusion continues....you can check the pics out at twixpix.com ...at least the guys side stays consistent...conditioned size usually wins...the figure girls must be more confused than ever...and pissed...

[fathead]

after looking at those nationals pics id still have to say this woman is much more muscular. i dont think its the leanness thats an issue, her musculature is much heavier and thicker.

just my opinion

she looks great either way

[Spent]

it was kinda all over the place and BCABBA figure standards were not exactly followed .

Some groups had some very muscular & hard beside smooth and less muscular in the top spots and not in scale?.

the judges should have perhaps read this prior to takeing the job so at least it would have been one standard.






1
. The judge should first assess the overall athletic appearance of the physique. This assessment should begin at the head and extend downwards, taking the whole physique into account. The assessment, beginning with a general impression of the physique, should take into consideration the hair and facial beauty; the overall athletic development of the musculature; the presentation of a balanced, symmetrically developed physique; the condition of the skin and the skin tone; and the athlete's ability to present herself with confidence, poise and grace.

2. The physique should be assessed as to its level of overall muscle tone, achieved through athletic endeavors. The muscle groups should have a round and firm appearance with a small amount of body fat. The physique should neither be excessively muscular nor excessively lean and should be free from deep muscle separation and/or striations. Physiques that are considered either too muscular or too lean must be marked down.

3. The assessment should also take into consideration the tightness and tone of the skin. The skin tone should be smooth and healthy in appearance, and without cellulite. The face, hair and makeup should complement the "Total Package" presented by the athlete.

4. The judge's assessment of the athlete's physique should include the athlete's entire presentation, from the moment she walks onstage until the moment she walks offstage. At all times, the fitness competitor must be viewed with the emphasis on a "healthy, fit, athletic" physique, in an attractively presented "Total Package".

[Sarah_Ming]

Anyway female bodybuilding will keep being very popular

[sabbaman]

My take on womens bbing is biased as I am married to a IFBB Pro female bber, however I do agree with the comments about how female bbing is going in the wrong direction. My wife is very competitive and works extremely hard in the gym and dieting throughout the year, and wants to win everytime she competes, however she also understands that she is a female, a mother, a wife and a employer and that is something that is very important in her life. Women cannot make a legit living off of bodybuilding, there is no supps endorsements, prize money ect... For some women to say that they shouldn't have to be beautiful or feminine and just be judged on their bodies are in "crazy dream land". You are WOMEN! Why would you want to reck your bodies in such a way that is irreversable in order to "maybe" win a show or get your pro card? I am not disagreeing with women that choose to do whatever it takes to win, I'm just saying that it is obvious why female bbing is losing it's appeal. Bodybuilding is a very mental sport and the quest to push yourself to the extreme is very addicting but that is why the judges need to be consistent in what they award as the "ideal" look for the women to pursue. I'm not saying women should ease up on the training or dieting or soften up just so they can place better, I'm saying workout and train and diet as hard as ever, just change the supps regime in order to not push the boundries of what divides women's and men's bodybuilding. If the judges would start to award the more "women looking" competitors at the pro level and placing the Iris Kyle's and the Tazzie look alikes lower, then not so many women would feel they are forced to take so many hormone changing supps in order to compete with them. I disagree with alot of the comments that say Lyris was solely awarded the win over Zoa because of being more feminine, she won cause her look is what the judges were looking for on that day. Zoa is just a larger woman, she is 5 10' but is still very feminine and beautiful, so that is not the reason. I love womens bbing and admire how committed this women are and how hard they work, it's just too bad the judges and the promotors are not being more helpful so that they can pursue their careers in a positive direction. I would also like to add that being a feminine bber has nothing to do with whether a woman competes at 120lbs or 170lbs, there is just a fine line between crossing over from competitve to extreme.

[Praetorian]

My take on womens bbing is biased as I am married to a IFBB Pro female bber, however I do agree with the comments about how female bbing is going in the wrong direction. My wife is very competitive and works extremely hard in the gym and dieting throughout the year, and wants to win everytime she competes, however she also understands that she is a female, a mother, a wife and a employer and that is something that is very important in her life. Women cannot make a legit living off of bodybuilding, there is no supps endorsements, prize money ect... For some women to say that they shouldn't have to be beautiful or feminine and just be judged on their bodies are in "crazy dream land". You are WOMEN! Why would you want to reck your bodies in such a way that is irreversable in order to "maybe" win a show or get your pro card? I am not disagreeing with women that choose to do whatever it takes to win, I'm just saying that it is obvious why female bbing is losing it's appeal. Bodybuilding is a very mental sport and the quest to push yourself to the extreme is very addicting but that is why the judges need to be consistent in what they award as the "ideal" look for the women to pursue. I'm not saying women should ease up on the training or dieting or soften up just so they can place better, I'm saying workout and train and diet as hard as ever, just change the supps regime in order to not push the boundries of what divides women's and men's bodybuilding. If the judges would start to award the more "women looking" competitors at the pro level and placing the Iris Kyle's and the Tazzie look alikes lower, then not so many women would feel they are forced to take so many hormone changing supps in order to compete with them. I disagree with alot of the comments that say Lyris was solely awarded the win over Zoa because of being more feminine, she won cause her look is what the judges were looking for on that day. Zoa is just a larger woman, she is 5 10' but is still very feminine and beautiful, so that is not the reason. I love womens bbing and admire how committed this women are and how hard they work, it's just too bad the judges and the promotors are not being more helpful so that they can pursue their careers in a positive direction. I would also like to add that being a feminine bber has nothing to do with whether a woman competes at 120lbs or 170lbs, there is just a fine line between crossing over from competitve to extreme.


Completely agree...the course womens BB has taken in the last ten years is the very reason for its downward spiral. Sorry but womens BB is not popular and will eventually die if this action continues. The top level in BB the IFBB sees womans BB as an embarrassment...why do you think they put the Ms Olympia finals at the same time as the Mr Olympia prejudging? There is very little sponsorship, prize money is pitiful to say the least and attendance is down every year. The changes you speak of are needed to get back to a competition between women that those other than in the sport would appreciate.
Good post.
P

[razorsedge]

sabbaman...you hit it out of the park with that one...ur dead on there