Crashed gear?

[rob66679]

I've been taking the same size dose of Test E for the last 12 or so weeks, have not changed anything in my injection methods at all. Gear has been stored in the same place and temp as well.....
2 shots ago the injection site got really hard and swelled up ( no redness or heat though ) for about a week. So I figured it was just a bad shot...... Next time it did the same thing to my other delt.
So.... I'm figuring maybe that vial crashed? So yesterday I drew the shot from a new vial....... today its swelled up again.... So obviously it wasn't just a bad vial...... interesting though that nothing happened until I was half through the vial, if crashed you'd think it would be shitty from the first shot..

Possible that your body develops a alergy to it, or something along that lines?
Any ideas are appreciated guys, I work construction and I'm gonna have to stop this cycle way early if it keeps hurting like this...... Can't get things done with 1 arm.......

[musclehead123]

Is it an amber vial or clear? Are you able to see any crystalization in the vial? Maybe try warming the vial in a hot water bath before your next shot and warm up the barrel before you shoot. I always thought crashed gear is when the gear crystalizes. Did u switch pins after drawing out of the vial? Maybe your moving your hands too much when your injecting?

[TryGear]

yes it is possible to develop an allergy to anything basically at any point in your life, though if you haven't developed an allergy to something by 20 years of age your most likely not going to.
personally if I use the same location too often I get scar tissue buildup and shot will be hard and painful which sounds like what you're describing.

[yAr]

ya that happend to a buddy of mine a few times, huge lump lasted about a week or so, never knew why? hopefully someone can explain

[rob66679]

Is it an amber vial or clear? Are you able to see any crystalization in the vial? Maybe try warming the vial in a hot water bath before your next shot and warm up the barrel before you shoot. I always thought crashed gear is when the gear crystalizes. Did u switch pins after drawing out of the vial? Maybe your moving your hands too much when your injecting?

I always switch pins to a fresh 25 for injecting..... gear has been at the same temperature it was for the first 30 shots this cycle which went OK....... can't say I have the steadiest hands in the world, but they are no shakier than the first 30 shots of this cycle, or the 20 weeks I was on last year..... never had a problem prior to last week.....
Gear is amber.... looks no different than the other vials, or any different than it did before......

I guess scar tissue buildup is a possibility, but I figured that would be something that gradually came on rather than all of a sudden every shot turns into a big throbbing lump... in either delt... never had a problem in probably 75+ injects, now i've had the same reaction 3 times in a row... scared if I inject in a quad I won't be able to walk for a week..... shots were fine going in, and for a few hours after, but gradually builds up pain wise and swelling wise......basically at the point now 24 hours after that I can't put my arm over my head.....

I appreciate all the input guys, keep er coming.....

[MMASTAR]

I would try getting your gear nice and warm before injecting... how often are you shooting into each injection site?

[JifeLacket]

One word of advice, draw a circle around the red area with permanent marker (right on the edge where red meets normal skin tone) and see if it is spreading, if it advances past the line A LOT then seek medical help.

Also do not inject into the sore spot again until it subsides (duh)

I think lump is most likely the body building a barrier around the 'foreign' substance in your muscle, like your body is trying to block it off so 'it' doesn't spread and its trying to fight it. Massage and heat IMO.

Try a new inj site that you have not pinned and see if it happens again, it kinda sounds like you may have 'over injected' those sites and the gear from previous inj is not getting out fast enough and its building up and now your body doesnt like it.

[Body By Balco]

I would re-sterilise the product. BA is bacteriostatic, not bactericidal. Microbial contamination is easily and often introduced to the vial (you'll never see it). Once inside the body, the immune response creates localized inflammation to contain the pathogen while it is killed. Perhaps it is not a species of bacteria that is overly pathogenic, and as such an abscess has thus far been avoided.

[cog]

I would re-sterilise the product. BA is bacteriostatic, not bactericidal. Microbial contamination is easily and often introduced to the vial (you'll never see it). Once inside the body, the immune response creates localized inflammation to contain the pathogen while it is killed. Perhaps it is not a species of bacteria that is overly pathogenic, and as such an abscess has thus far been avoided.

Re-heating at what temp for 20 mins with a vent pin?

[Praetorian]

Re-heating at what temp for 20 mins with a vent pin?

Heat it just prior to boiling....then let cool...it should be fine.
P

[rob66679]

One word of advice, draw a circle around the red area with permanent marker (right on the edge where red meets normal skin tone) and see if it is spreading, if it advances past the line A LOT then seek medical help.

Also do not inject into the sore spot again until it subsides (duh)

I think lump is most likely the body building a barrier around the 'foreign' substance in your muscle, like your body is trying to block it off so 'it' doesn't spread and its trying to fight it. Massage and heat IMO.

Try a new inj site that you have not pinned and see if it happens again, it kinda sounds like you may have 'over injected' those sites and the gear from previous inj is not getting out fast enough and its building up and now your body doesnt like it.

No red area at all, just swelled up to the point of being hard to the touch and feels like theres broken glass in it......

The thought of contamination did cross my mind, so for the latest injection I used a totally new vial which was un-opened..... and got the same result as the previous vial.
Just seemed kind of odd that the issue started half-way through a vial, and now continues with a brand new one..... I'm convinced its a issue of something in the gear reacting with my body, or overuse of the same injection spots, rather than a injection technique problem.... like I said, 75+ previous injects with no issues whatsoever and now its 3 strait bad ones...only bad ones I've ever had....

I will have to re-sterilize what I've got, and use a new site for injects...... if that doesn't do it, then it has to be my body responding to something in the gear in a bad way. And the end of this cycle lol.....


What size pin would you recommend for a vent, and how long at what temp?

I appreciate all the answers guys , hell I even a response from BBB...... Big thanks.

[Body By Balco]

250 degrees F in the oven for 40mins will do it., one hour if you want to be safe. Double check the temp of your oven with a thermometer, forget what the dial/digital setting says.

A small pin is all that is needed to equalize any pressure differences. If I was doing this, I would place a small piece of aluminum foil loosely over the needle to reduce any chances of something wandering into the vial whilst I was trying to kill what may already in the vial.

250F is only 121C, common autoclave temps. Oils should truthfully be held to a higher temp for MUCH longer for proper sterilization and heat penetration. This is industry standard, but I'm not getting into that debate (ie the 'you'll ruin you gear Brah...', debate).

[macka]

I'd listen to BBB, he is a fountain of useful knowledge.

[musclehead123]

let us know what you do, and how it works out

[rob66679]

I'd listen to BBB, he is a fountain of useful knowledge.

I will, absolutely.


Kinda starting to think after a little more research that self sterilizing should be on my checklist anyways...... no point in leaving it up to someone I don't know who operates in unknown conditions.... irresponsible to do that.
Get a bad infection and I'd have nobody to blame but myself.

Wouldn't mind knowing more about what the industry standards are..... probably start a big shit storm though lol.... Most pictures of UG labs I've seen were basically in a spare room in someones house, with varying degrees of cleanliness..... not exactly phizer.....

Big thanks again, Its feeling a bit better tonight and I'll follow up with what I did and how things worked out.

[Body By Balco]

Wouldn't mind knowing more about what the industry standards are..... probably start a big shit storm though lol....





DRY HEAT STERILIZATION OF PARENTERAL OIL VEHICLES.

T Kupiec1 , R Ahmad2 , P Matthews3 , L V Allen, Jr.4

1Analytical Research Laboratories, Edmond, OK, 2University of Central Oklahoma, Edmond, OK, 3Analytical Research Laboratories, Edmond, OK, 4Midwest Institute of Research and Technology, Edmond, OK,




Purpose.

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effect of temperature and time on the dry heat sterilization conditions of three different parenteral oil vehicles. Methods. Three different oils, cottonseed oil, peanut oil, and sesame seed oil were each spiked with Bacillus subtillus spores. The inoculated oils were exposed to dry heat at 4 different temperatures (150ºC, 160ºC, 170ºC, and 180ºC) for three time intervals (1, 1.5 and 2 hours). Following inoculation and dry heat sterilization, samples were placed in a sterile laminar flow hood and processed according to <71> Sterility Tests of the USP XXIII using thioglycolate broth and fluid D. The specimens were then placed into the incubator at 30ºC for 3, 5 and 7 days and observed for bacterial growth. The above variables were performed in triplicate. Positive and negative controls were run along with each variable and group for quality control. Results. Cottonseed oil, peanut oil, and sesame seed oil were found to be free of Bacillus subtillus following dry heat sterilization at all four temperatures for 1, 1.5 and 2 hours at 3, 5 and 7 days. The positive controls were positive for observed growth and the negative controls had no observed bacterial growth. Conclusions. Dry heat sterilization of parenteral oils at 150ºC for one hour was sufficient time and temperature. However the authors recommend dry heat sterilization at 160ºC for one hour AFTER the oil has reached the desired temperature. These studies were partially funded by the Professional Compounding Centers of America, Inc.



You will have issues at these temperatures since you have a packaged product (ie stopper). You may also have issues with off gassing from the label and or some sort of burning. Further, ovens can be quite the mess if not cleaned often (ie most dudes don't).



The cyclopentanoperhydrophenanthrene structure of the steroid is quite stable and resistant to heat degradation. Decomposition is is not going to occur until over 200C.

[rob66679]

Great stuff to know...... Particularly that decomp won't begin until after 200C....
Big thanks man.

[natehayes]

Can't say I have any good advice for you, but I have had similar experiences and never did figure it out.

I got some test enth and the first time I shot it I got the swollen/hard knot thing but with some red. The guy I got it from thought it was an allergic reaction to the EO they used so he sent me some non-EO gear and that was fine.

The really odd thing is being the masochist I am I have used that other gear several times again. I will have no problems at all for 3 or 4 injections and then wham red, swollen, hard knot. The worst was in my thigh. After a week or so it clears up. Seems very odd that the reaction comes and goes.

[rob66679]

Can't say I have any good advice for you, but I have had similar experiences and never did figure it out.

I got some test enth and the first time I shot it I got the swollen/hard knot thing but with some red. The guy I got it from thought it was an allergic reaction to the EO they used so he sent me some non-EO gear and that was fine.

The really odd thing is being the masochist I am I have used that other gear several times again. I will have no problems at all for 3 or 4 injections and then wham red, swollen, hard knot. The worst was in my thigh. After a week or so it clears up. Seems very odd that the reaction comes and goes.

Sounds very familiar.
As far as I know EO isn't in it, but I should probably find out.
Did you re-sterilize it? Thats suspect #1 on my list, but there are other possibilitys.

I'm coming off cycle, **** it.
I can't take the chance of anything happening when I'm working a physically demanding job, just not worth it.
I'll sterilize it and look into some other possibilitys, Hopefully start back on early in the new year once this project is finished.

[grader]

i had this happen to me when i was injecting into my quads on my first cycle, i freaked out and went to the dr. asap, his opinion was it was from pinning too quickly and or i hit a nerve/vien causing the reaction, after that experience i stuck to pinning in my glutes or delts and i dont dart myself so fast any more. his advice was to put some ice on it, it went away after a day the pain stayed with me for a week.

[natehayes]

Sounds very familiar.
As far as I know EO isn't in it, but I should probably find out.
Did you re-sterilize it? Thats suspect #1 on my list, but there are other possibilitys.

I'm coming off cycle, **** it.
I can't take the chance of anything happening when I'm working a physically demanding job, just not worth it.
I'll sterilize it and look into some other possibilitys, Hopefully start back on early in the new year once this project is finished.

I did not re-sterilze it, but after reading this thread I am going to give it a try.