Smoking

[Dryvrgrl]

This year I was at both National shows. I was kinda shocked by the number of competitors (both in Bodybuilding and some in figures/bikini.. I dont think I saw any fitness girls puffing).. who smoke!

I KNOW Im kinda naive.. but is there a reason for it or is smoking for BBers an "addiction" like it is for just umm.. normal people lol sorry i dont know the other term.. civilians maybe?...lol (the reason i have "addiction " in these things " " " is because i personally dont believe its an addiction, just a weakness, but thats just my personal opinion...so dont shred me!)

it strikes me as odd.. mind you, maybe because I do fitness.. I lift to get stronger and look better but also to stay healthy and young and pretty and smoking does none of those things.. so yeah.. smoking... WHY?? do you?

[69challenger]

I noticed that also. Come intermission, tons of athletes go outside and light up...I don't get it. I smoked in my teens/early 20's. When I began working out, I quit. Guess you could say I traded one addiction for another:)

[Big D]

I see some people at my gym that will have a smoke in between exercises.

kinda disgusting...

[fathead]

i think bbers have a tendency to have addictive personalities. also, i think smoking is something that helps people when they are dieting or in a stressful situation (on a diet, sleep deprived, exhausted... pre contest basically)

and dont fool yourself, bodybuilders do crazy things to their bodies, pumping them full all sorts of drugs. smoking isnt really any different

[JifeLacket]

It happens, this dutch sprinter broke the 200m record (cycling) and afterward smoked a whole pack. The french sprinters often smoked as well.

[Big_Papa_B]

Markus Ruhl smokes like a chimney....

I am sure there are other pros that do as well

[Talo]

I can see how it would help with cravings , but still disgusting , IMO.

[tiramisu]

Makes no sense to me but I see a lot of bodybuilders talking about narcotic addictions and bizarre sexual behaviours as well. This "sport" attracts some extremely ****ed up people.

[Dryvrgrl]

Makes no sense to me but I see a lot of bodybuilders talking about narcotic addictions and bizarre sexual behaviours as well. This "sport" attracts some extremely ****ed up people.

LOL... no kidding!
there was a guy who offered Leigh money to knock him out.. just punch him unconscious!
I was like "shit.. I'd do it for free!" lol

I need to get muscular enought to be able to punch men in the face for money!!!

but yeah.. smoking is gross. WORST (well I have a few worsts...) but I hate when this one guy at the city gym comes in and works out beside me and he smells like a butted cigarette!

[countrychic]

It's an addiction like anything else!

[Forever]

the reason i have "addiction " in these things " " " is because i personally dont believe its an addiction, just a weakness, but thats just my personal opinion...so dont shred me!

So you don't believe in "addiction" at all, or just with smoking?
I smoked for 10 years and quit 2 years ago. Trust me, if you believe in "addictions" this is a ****ing nasty controlling one. How else to you explain people paying $5-$20 a DAY just so they can deteriorate their health, smell bad and be ostracized by society? That's just not a logical decision to make......

As for your question. While it would help with diet cravings, I think its probably just a nasty addiction rather then something they added in as part of their routine.... that would be like smoking crack before your workouts everyday for the energy boost.

[ironwill]

So you don't believe in "addiction" at all, or just with smoking?
I smoked for 10 years and quit 2 years ago. Trust me, if you believe in "addictions" this is a ****ing nasty controlling one. How else to you explain people paying $5-$20 a DAY just so they can deteriorate their health, smell bad and be ostracized by society? That's just not a logical decision to make......

As for your question. While it would help with diet cravings, I think its probably just a nasty addiction rather then something they added in as part of their routine.... that would be like smoking crack before your workouts everyday for the energy boost.
good post bro, anyone that claims its not an addiction is fairly nieve, and has never battled an addiction....I quit, started, quit, started, even after 2 yrs, you think about it several times/day, at least i did.....Last time i started was just taking a drag off my brothers cigarette, then a smoke, then i bought a pack the next day....Horrible, and i feel bad for anyone battling this...

[Dryvrgrl]

good post bro, anyone that claims its not an addiction is fairly nieve, and has never battled an addiction....I quit, started, quit, started, even after 2 yrs, you think about it several times/day, at least i did.....Last time i started was just taking a drag off my brothers cigarette, then a smoke, then i bought a pack the next day....Horrible, and i feel bad for anyone battling this...

actually.. its a little naive to assume Im naive about addiction...
I have struggled with many weaknesses over my years. I grew up in a home full of them... My Dad's drinking and smoking killed him...
"Addiction" is everywhere now a days... people claim to be addicted to sex, addicted to french fries, addicted to porn, addicted to shopping.. and while I can almost give merit to the arguement that cigaretts have substances and chemicals in them which temporarily alter the chemical makeup of the brain... which might lead someone to believe they are addiced... the fact that millions of people have successfully quit smoking after years of doing it, show that it is POSSIBLE to use your mental strength to evercome the chemical depencency you FEEL you have... and Im sorry..but shopping, gambling, overeating have no chemical makeup which case "addiction"... unless you want to give credence to an endorphine rush causing a euphoric state which someone wants to recreate over and over and call it "addiction"... I'll just stick to calling it a weakness.. thank you very much

My mom is still "addicted" to everything.. gambling, drinking, food, over spending... calling it an addiction is like giving her an excuse to not take control of her life and make changes...

[gettinbigger]

I volunteered at provincials this year and ya I was sorta shocked when two guys started puffing on some smokes after their class finished prejudging. And I'm in BC where like no one is supposed to smoke, right?

I get what you're saying Dryvrgrl about addiction. It is a hard-assed and tough-love approach that people in your situation have every right to take. But it will never ever be popular. I don't know if I'd go as far as you and deny that addiction is a physical state but I draw the line at people who call alcoholism a disease, etc. Sorry not buying it. I read a great article about addiction research once and wow I can't believe I just found it on the internet but it is here: http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2007.12-health-rat-trap/

[Andre]

Good post... I agree 1000%


actually.. its a little naive to assume Im naive about addiction...
I have struggled with many weaknesses over my years. I grew up in a home full of them... My Dad's drinking and smoking killed him...
"Addiction" is everywhere now a days... people claim to be addicted to sex, addicted to french fries, addicted to porn, addicted to shopping.. and while I can almost give merit to the arguement that cigaretts have substances and chemicals in them which temporarily alter the chemical makeup of the brain... which might lead someone to believe they are addiced... the fact that millions of people have successfully quit smoking after years of doing it, show that it is POSSIBLE to use your mental strength to evercome the chemical depencency you FEEL you have... and Im sorry..but shopping, gambling, overeating have no chemical makeup which case "addiction"... unless you want to give credence to an endorphine rush causing a euphoric state which someone wants to recreate over and over and call it "addiction"... I'll just stick to calling it a weakness.. thank you very much

My mom is still "addicted" to everything.. gambling, drinking, food, over spending... calling it an addiction is like giving her an excuse to not take control of her life and make changes...

[natenator]

actually.. its a little naive to assume Im naive about addiction...
I have struggled with many weaknesses over my years. I grew up in a home full of them... My Dad's drinking and smoking killed him...
"Addiction" is everywhere now a days... people claim to be addicted to sex, addicted to french fries, addicted to porn, addicted to shopping.. and while I can almost give merit to the arguement that cigaretts have substances and chemicals in them which temporarily alter the chemical makeup of the brain... which might lead someone to believe they are addiced... the fact that millions of people have successfully quit smoking after years of doing it, show that it is POSSIBLE to use your mental strength to evercome the chemical depencency you FEEL you have... and Im sorry..but shopping, gambling, overeating have no chemical makeup which case "addiction"... unless you want to give credence to an endorphine rush causing a euphoric state which someone wants to recreate over and over and call it "addiction"... I'll just stick to calling it a weakness.. thank you very much

My mom is still "addicted" to everything.. gambling, drinking, food, over spending... calling it an addiction is like giving her an excuse to not take control of her life and make changes...
food is a chemical reaction that happens in the body therefore being addicted to food IS an addiction just like any drug.

The high you experience from gambling is a chemical reaction that happens in the body. The act may not have a chemical reaction like a drug would but physiological and psychological effect it has in the body does.

Addiction is definitely everywhere today. It's seems to be trendy to be addicted to something. Just like being gay is trendy ;)

You clearly have no understanding of human psychology (try doing some actual reading on the subject).


P.S. The best book about addition I have ever read is Nikki Sixx's Heroin Diaries. If you think addition is not real then have a read at that book because I do not believe anyone WILLINGLY wants to live their life like that.

[Forever]

actually.. its a little naive to assume Im naive about addiction...
I have struggled with many weaknesses over my years. I grew up in a home full of them... My Dad's drinking and smoking killed him...
"Addiction" is everywhere now a days... people claim to be addicted to sex, addicted to french fries, addicted to porn, addicted to shopping.. and while I can almost give merit to the arguement that cigaretts have substances and chemicals in them which temporarily alter the chemical makeup of the brain... which might lead someone to believe they are addiced... the fact that millions of people have successfully quit smoking after years of doing it, show that it is POSSIBLE to use your mental strength to evercome the chemical depencency you FEEL you have... and Im sorry..but shopping, gambling, overeating have no chemical makeup which case "addiction"... unless you want to give credence to an endorphine rush causing a euphoric state which someone wants to recreate over and over and call it "addiction"... I'll just stick to calling it a weakness.. thank you very much

My mom is still "addicted" to everything.. gambling, drinking, food, over spending... calling it an addiction is like giving her an excuse to not take control of her life and make changes...
So basically you just like to debate the definition of an addiction? I'm up for a bit of that.

It takes strength to overcome an addiction, but that doesn't make weakness and addiction the same thing. IMO the dangerous part about addictions is that they lead you to reason your way past logic. An addicted person can convince themselves that there is a good reason they should participate in self destructive behavior, a weak person will just do it because they want to.

I smoked a LOT of pot in high school even though it was self admittedly very self destructive, it was not an addiction. I decided to stop smoking it regularly one day no problem and now I can have a puff here and there with no issues. It was a self destructive weakness.

Even after being smoke free for 2 years I still sometimes think I would like to enjoy a puff off a cigarette. This has lead to full on relapses in the past in the exact same way ironwill outlined. "I'll just have one puff" then your body wants more so "I'll just smoke one" and before you know it your riding around in a stinky car with a pack on the dash. Last time I smoked a cigarette was around a year ago. 1 single drunk cigarette and I was a mess fighting myself not to have more for weeks after. My mom quite 10 years ago and she said she still has "smoking dreams". Thats an addiction.
:popc2

[gettinbigger]

food is a chemical reaction that happens in the body therefore being addicted to food IS an addiction just like any drug.

The high you experience from gambling is a chemical reaction that happens in the body. The act may not have a chemical reaction like a drug would but physiological and psychological effect it has in the body does.

Addiction is definitely everywhere today. It's seems to be trendy to be addicted to something. Just like being gay is trendy ;)

You clearly have no understanding of human psychology (try doing some actual reading on the subject).


P.S. The best book about addition I have ever read is Nikki Sixx's Heroin Diaries. If you think addition is not real then have a read at that book because I do not believe anyone WILLINGLY wants to live their life like that.

Nate: eating brown rice is a chemical reaction. Eating jube jubes is a chemical reaction. No one claims to be addicted to brown rice so your logic is whacked, as per usual.

[natenator]

Nate: eating brown rice is a chemical reaction. Eating jube jubes is a chemical reaction. No one claims to be addicted to brown rice so your logic is whacked, as per usual.
Who said someone can't be addicted to clean food? Clean food in abundance will still create the same effect as the crappy ju jube food that you mentioned.

And who are you to determine what that person feels when consuming said food? Food is food. Someone addicted to food will eat whatever they can. Granted, it's usually junk food but they will eat the clean food if junk food isn't an option as well.

When I was in University and broke my neck I was used to consuming large quantities of food. I had to eat a lot to keep my weight while playing sports and to continue to get bigger and stronger. I broke my neck and was no longer able to play sports. My body had been conditioned to eat whether I was hungry or not (I'm sure as a bodybuilder you can understand this) so while I was recovering I continued to eat in abundance. It took me a lot of mental struggle to stop myself from eating like I had been but it still took a good month+ for me to recognize what was going on.

But perhaps you're right. Maybe it is nothing more than a mental disorder or a desire for attention -- like being gay -- and with a little mental will power they could stop their overindulgence.

[natenator]

For the record I do not believe being gay is a mental disorder but a lot of people do and that has created a lot of problems for people in the gay community in terms of labeling and social acceptance.

People with addictions are no different. Just because it's not something you or I can understand does not mean it doesn't exist or isn't legitimate.

I can't imagine people who are gay would want to be be treated as they used to be and how a lot still are just as I can't understand how people who battle addictions would WANT to live the kind of life they are living. Hiding, being ashamed and the social stigma that comes can't be a fun way to live life.

[ironwill]

Thank-you very much but you need to read a bit...Smoking is more addicting than heroin...Not sure about all the other crap your talking about, as thats not the title of your thread.....
Smoking is an addiction, plain and simple....So i still say its nieve to think as you do (your words)...:D
If you want to talk of other addictions, i can chime in there also.....From friends experiences....
Dont condemn until you walk in the shoes.....When one quits smoking there are terrible withdrawal symptoms because your body became addicted to the things in the ciggies, actual physical symptoms.....I cant believe this is being debated, but i can educate if nothing else i suppose...
I hate the smell of shitass perfume when im trying to workout also...

actually.. its a little naive to assume Im naive about addiction...
I have struggled with many weaknesses over my years. I grew up in a home full of them... My Dad's drinking and smoking killed him...
"Addiction" is everywhere now a days... people claim to be addicted to sex, addicted to french fries, addicted to porn, addicted to shopping.. and while I can almost give merit to the arguement that cigaretts have substances and chemicals in them which temporarily alter the chemical makeup of the brain... which might lead someone to believe they are addiced... the fact that millions of people have successfully quit smoking after years of doing it, show that it is POSSIBLE to use your mental strength to evercome the chemical depencency you FEEL you have... and Im sorry..but shopping, gambling, overeating have no chemical makeup which case "addiction"... unless you want to give credence to an endorphine rush causing a euphoric state which someone wants to recreate over and over and call it "addiction"... I'll just stick to calling it a weakness.. thank you very much

My mom is still "addicted" to everything.. gambling, drinking, food, over spending... calling it an addiction is like giving her an excuse to not take control of her life and make changes...

[gettinbigger]

Who said someone can't be addicted to clean food? Clean food in abundance will still create the same effect as the crappy ju jube food that you mentioned.

And who are you to determine what that person feels when consuming said food? Food is food. Someone addicted to food will eat whatever they can. Granted, it's usually junk food but they will eat the clean food if junk food isn't an option as well.

When I was in University and broke my neck I was used to consuming large quantities of food. I had to eat a lot to keep my weight while playing sports and to continue to get bigger and stronger. I broke my neck and was no longer able to play sports. My body had been conditioned to eat whether I was hungry or not (I'm sure as a bodybuilder you can understand this) so while I was recovering I continued to eat in abundance. It took me a lot of mental struggle to stop myself from eating like I had been but it still took a good month+ for me to recognize what was going on.

But perhaps you're right. Maybe it is nothing more than a mental disorder or a desire for attention -- like being gay -- and with a little mental will power they could stop their overindulgence.

Ok Nate I guess we're all addicted to food, oxygen and water and things that keep us a live. If we're going to use your amazingly broad stroked definition of addiction. But from the link I posted above:

" A survey of Ontario households in 1987, for example, suggested that 95 percent of those who had ever tried cocaine were using it less than once a month. A 1990 survey conducted in the US found that crack cocaine, “the most addictive drug on earth,” was addicting only one user in a hundred. “Naturally, because scholars are scrupulous, I’ve had to try it [morphine] myself,” Alexander says. “It’s no big deal. You’re visibly lightened of pain and anxiety, and that’s mildly pleasant.” But he didn’t experience any urge to try it again. “I just wasn’t interested, and that’s the typical response.”

Then there are the thousands of American soldiers who became heroin addicts during the Vietnam War. In an unrivalled demonstration of the effect of setting, a 1975 survey found that 88 percent of them simply stopped using the drug when they left the war zone. Their experience has been recreated by millions of hospital patients who have received (and become physically dependent on) morphine for severe pain. If opioids are all they’re reputed to be, this practice should have produced legions of addicts. Instead, as researchers have discovered, once patients are no longer in physical distress, they can’t wait to quit the drug, go through the withdrawal period, and get on with their lives. It’s Rat Park’s “Kicking the Habit” experiment carried out on humans, with the same result.

Convincing as these studies are, they remain the outliers of addiction research, which now more than ever endorses neurochemical models, thanks to exquisite new machines that decode genomes and map working brains. “There’s a mainstream that has all the money, sponsored primarily by the American government,” Alexander says. “Those researchers truly believe that they’re dealing with a brain disease, and that they will discover the pill that will solve the problem.”

But if biology alone explained addiction, rates wouldn’t change. A certain fraction of any population would fall predictably into the jaws of addiction, as predestined by flaws in their molecules. Instead, Alexander’s research reveals that addiction rates are low when societies are stable, and they rise at times of social disruption. “The extreme case is the aboriginal people,” he says. “You don’t have anything identifiable as addiction until you screw up their culture, and then alcoholism becomes a major problem. In extreme cases, addiction rates can go from zero to close to 100 percent.”


The point is that we are all exposed to these things that some get "addicted" to. The difference between "addiction" and "normal" is our environment. If we're happy, healthy and stimulated we're very unlike to get an addiction. But if we feel that the altered state of, for example, crack cocaine is better than our normal shitty existence then we will become (choose?) addiction.

So I take crack, chemical reaction happens, no addiction. Someone who feels unloved by their parents, chemical reaction happens, addiction. So can you see how addiction seems to be something people can conjure up to excuse their problems?

And I don't know if you're bringing up the homo stuff because Dryvrgrl and I are pretty out but you might want to decide whether being gay is something trendy or something that makes you a social outcast before you build an argument with it.

[dremen]

Dryvrgrl is a bus driver in winnipeg so im sure she knows ALL about addictions lol. There are some ****ED UP ****ERS on that public transit system:puff

[Sandwiches]

actually.. its a little naive to assume Im naive about addiction...
I have struggled with many weaknesses over my years. I grew up in a home full of them... My Dad's drinking and smoking killed him...
"Addiction" is everywhere now a days... people claim to be addicted to sex, addicted to french fries, addicted to porn, addicted to shopping.. and while I can almost give merit to the arguement that cigaretts have substances and chemicals in them which temporarily alter the chemical makeup of the brain... which might lead someone to believe they are addiced... the fact that millions of people have successfully quit smoking after years of doing it, show that it is POSSIBLE to use your mental strength to evercome the chemical depencency you FEEL you have... and Im sorry..but shopping, gambling, overeating have no chemical makeup which case "addiction"... unless you want to give credence to an endorphine rush causing a euphoric state which someone wants to recreate over and over and call it "addiction"... I'll just stick to calling it a weakness.. thank you very much

My mom is still "addicted" to everything.. gambling, drinking, food, over spending... calling it an addiction is like giving her an excuse to not take control of her life and make changes...

are you trying to fight your spell check addiction ?

[Mr Ontario]

I knew this thread would heat up :)

[Dryvrgrl]

Addiction is definitely everywhere today. It's seems to be trendy to be addicted to something. Just like being gay is trendy ;)

You clearly have no understanding of human psychology (try doing some actual reading on the subject).


.
funny to think of a dude wanting some other dudes man meat rammed up his anus to be trendy...


I don't want to read about the subject... I dont like the subject.. I am perfectly content with my opinion on the subject.. No law against narrow minded uninformed opinions on this board.. OBVIOUSLY!! or there would be like 2 people posting in like 2 threads.. My opinion is mine, I reserve the right to have it!

Oh, and quitting smoking was WAY easier than finding the damned spell check button!

[Dryvrgrl]

And I don't know if you're bringing up the homo stuff because Dryvrgrl and I are pretty out but you might want to decide whether being gay is something trendy or something that makes you a social outcast before you build an argument with it.

Maybe it's trendy to be a social outcast!! :)

[japh]

First off who commenting on this thread is an addict?

I haven't spotted one except for some smokers. Smoking is an addiction period. Nicotine is a powerful drug. It doesn't take a very large dose to kill a person. That being said you won't find very many people in treatment for smoking now will you. Its one of those addictions which are manageable and easy to ignore until its too late 30-50 years later.

Who can define addiction who has spoken on it? I'd really like to hear it.

I'm a recoverying addict. I've been through the wringer and spent 7 months in treatment just this past year alone. It was nine years ago I decided to stop and it took me 8 to figure out how. Its not easy and it just about killed me many many times. It has nothing to do with intelligence either. I also have always had a very strong moral conviction. It also has absolutely nothing to do with willpower. I have willpower for days. The inherit problem with willpower is it inevevitably only last so long while the addiction reamains. I'm not going to write a book on this topic. I could. I've just read a lot of ignorance from people who are not ignorant in general thats all. Thats OK because unless you're an addict yourself you'll never truly understand. Even if you have a close family member and have seen it you'll still never truly understand. I'm about as stand up as they come. Stick my drug of choice in me and its a completly different story. I stop caring about anything or anyone immediatley including my own life. Its a scary state of mind. It sucks living by a thread but thats my life.

Last but not least it makes no sense. A monkey could make the right decision. There are no bad people only bad choices. ADDICTION IS THE LOSS OF CHOICE. I knowingly made the wrong choices repeatedly for years. Theres a lot of shame which goes with that and it only adds fuel to the fire. My brain still trys to tell me it would be fun to do when it hasn't been fun in over ten years and always ends bad. Thats addiction. I may as well have a split personality for all intents and purposes.

The one cool thing about it is it really is amazing what a person can put themselves through mentally, emotionally and physiacally. If they are able to come out of it on top divine providence is real and good does come frome evil.

Thats not always the case though. I lost six friends just this year. One was my best friend and the other my weightraing partner. All very good people who just couldn't make the right choice. Enough said. Theres way more to it than that.

[countrychic]

I've just read a lot of ignorance from people who are not ignorant in general thats all. Thats OK because unless you're an addict yourself you'll never truly understand. Even if you have a close family member and have seen it you'll still never truly understand.



Bingo!

Great post japh.Good for you to conquer such a hard thing, there are alot of people out there that struggle day after day and never win!!

I find it funny and somewhat sad to read input on this subject, smoking, cocaine, heroin addiction's ect. Comments that make a person feel superior because they don't have any kind of addiction. To say it is an excuse for people to continue what they are doing and "not take control" have a day in their shoes and see how hard it can be to take control of that addiction.

[natenator]

Ok Nate I guess we're all addicted to food, oxygen and water and things that keep us a live. If we're going to use your amazingly broad stroked definition of addiction. But from the link I posted above:

" A survey of Ontario households in 1987, for example, suggested that 95 percent of those who had ever tried cocaine were using it less than once a month. A 1990 survey conducted in the US found that crack cocaine, “the most addictive drug on earth,” was addicting only one user in a hundred. “Naturally, because scholars are scrupulous, I’ve had to try it [morphine] myself,” Alexander says. “It’s no big deal. You’re visibly lightened of pain and anxiety, and that’s mildly pleasant.” But he didn’t experience any urge to try it again. “I just wasn’t interested, and that’s the typical response.”

Then there are the thousands of American soldiers who became heroin addicts during the Vietnam War. In an unrivalled demonstration of the effect of setting, a 1975 survey found that 88 percent of them simply stopped using the drug when they left the war zone. Their experience has been recreated by millions of hospital patients who have received (and become physically dependent on) morphine for severe pain. If opioids are all they’re reputed to be, this practice should have produced legions of addicts. Instead, as researchers have discovered, once patients are no longer in physical distress, they can’t wait to quit the drug, go through the withdrawal period, and get on with their lives. It’s Rat Park’s “Kicking the Habit” experiment carried out on humans, with the same result.

Convincing as these studies are, they remain the outliers of addiction research, which now more than ever endorses neurochemical models, thanks to exquisite new machines that decode genomes and map working brains. “There’s a mainstream that has all the money, sponsored primarily by the American government,” Alexander says. “Those researchers truly believe that they’re dealing with a brain disease, and that they will discover the pill that will solve the problem.”

But if biology alone explained addiction, rates wouldn’t change. A certain fraction of any population would fall predictably into the jaws of addiction, as predestined by flaws in their molecules. Instead, Alexander’s research reveals that addiction rates are low when societies are stable, and they rise at times of social disruption. “The extreme case is the aboriginal people,” he says. “You don’t have anything identifiable as addiction until you screw up their culture, and then alcoholism becomes a major problem. In extreme cases, addiction rates can go from zero to close to 100 percent.”


The point is that we are all exposed to these things that some get "addicted" to. The difference between "addiction" and "normal" is our environment. If we're happy, healthy and stimulated we're very unlike to get an addiction. But if we feel that the altered state of, for example, crack cocaine is better than our normal shitty existence then we will become (choose?) addiction.

So I take crack, chemical reaction happens, no addiction. Someone who feels unloved by their parents, chemical reaction happens, addiction. So can you see how addiction seems to be something people can conjure up to excuse their problems?

And I don't know if you're bringing up the homo stuff because Dryvrgrl and I are pretty out but you might want to decide whether being gay is something trendy or something that makes you a social outcast before you build an argument with it.
So I guess it is ones environment that also makes a person gay?

I'm simply bringing up the gay topic not because I believe it (if you had of been able to read you would have noted that) but because I know you are gay and should be able to identify with the difference between how your mind works and how straight person's mind works with that of an addict and a non-addict.

If everything, as you say, comes down to environment then unless you were raised by gay parents who put dresses on you, made you play with barbies and had you watching Marry Poppins reruns then you should not be gay.

Not everything comes down to environment and whether we're happy or not. Our individual psychology and genetics are different.

You should probably do some reading on the subject starting with the brain and addiction: Drugs, Brains, and Behavior - The Science of Addiction" - Drugs and the Brain (http://www.nida.nih.gov/scienceofaddiction/brain.html)

[natenator]

funny to think of a dude wanting some other dudes man meat rammed up his anus to be trendy...


I don't want to read about the subject... I dont like the subject.. I am perfectly content with my opinion on the subject.. No law against narrow minded uninformed opinions on this board.. OBVIOUSLY!! or there would be like 2 people posting in like 2 threads.. My opinion is mine, I reserve the right to have it!

Oh, and quitting smoking was WAY easier than finding the damned spell check button!
Is it that you don't want to read or that you lack the intellectual fortitude to grasp complex subjects?

Opinions are like assholes - we all have them. But, an uneducated opinion makes you an ignorant asshole.

If I was basing my opinion of bus drivers off of you then I'd say all bus drivers are obscenely dumb and too stupid to hold down a job which requires some real brain power but that would be an uneducated opinion and therefore I only believe that description applies to you.

[z83]

^^ on fire :p

[gettinbigger]

So I guess it is ones environment that also makes a person gay?


If everything, as you say, comes down to environment then unless you were raised by gay parents who put dresses on you, made you play with barbies and had you watching Marry Poppins reruns then you should not be gay.

Not everything comes down to environment and whether we're happy or not. Our individual psychology and genetics are different.

[/URL]

Other than the Mary Poppins reruns I can confidently say that it wasn't environmental factors that determined my sexuality. But sexuality is innate like handedness, freckles and the curliness of hair. Environmental factors determine whether a person acts on their sexuality. Live in Iran where they will stone you to death for liking cock, not likely I'm going to act on my sexuality.

Yes not everything comes down to environment but as the research I quote points out genetics can't be determining factor on the response to drugs. And of course our individual environments play a huge role in our psychological makeup.

I'm not saying a drug-user is immoral or lacks willpower or deviant. I'm saying the key to ending their drug use is changing their environment and their ability to cope with their environment. That's why things like good housing, counseling, income support are important to getting people off drugs.

And back to the gay thing, that's the most annoying thing about how you argue it always has to be personal with you. So nasty jabs about bus drivers, if we don't read your life-altering article by the Harvard big whig than we're all lazy twats...you'd seem like less of jerk without them.

[natenator]

Other than the Mary Poppins reruns I can confidently say that it wasn't environmental factors that determined my sexuality. But sexuality is innate like handedness, freckles and the curliness of hair. Environmental factors determine whether a person acts on their sexuality. Live in Iran where they will stone you to death for liking cock, not likely I'm going to act on my sexuality.

Yes not everything comes down to environment but as the research I quote points out genetics can't be determining factor on the response to drugs. And of course our individual environments play a huge role in our psychological makeup.

I'm not saying a drug-user is immoral or lacks willpower or deviant. I'm saying the key to ending their drug use is changing their environment and their ability to cope with their environment. That's why things like good housing, counseling, income support are important to getting people off drugs.

And back to the gay thing, that's the most annoying thing about how you argue it always has to be personal with you. So nasty jabs about bus drivers, if we don't read your life-altering article by the Harvard big whig than we're all lazy twats...you'd seem like less of jerk without them.
Personal jabs like you did earlier in the thread you mean? I've never once that I recall taken a shot at you so if you want to give'th then you should expect'th.

The gay references aren't personal jabs. I am using them to try and illustrate a point that I had hoped you could identify with. I am not calling you out, dissing you or making a personal attack towards you for being gay. I have zero problems with your sexual preferences just as I have zero problems with the sexual preferences of my friends whom some are also gay.

As for the bus driver remarks. They are justified in showing how an educated and uneducated opinion differ. The fact that she refuses to educate herself on a topic by saying she doesn't need to and that her opinion is her opinion is just silly and if you want to defend that then you're silly too.

[Winnipeg Muscle]

As many of us know, the influences of chemicals on the mind and body differ in degree from one person to the next. Mental health issues caused by addictions are certainty varied and individualistic. Addiction is a complicated subject but we should agree that they are certainly real.

One could argue that those people on the T.V. show "Hoarders" should just find the strength to clean up that shit and get ride of the junk. I think its a bit more complicated than that. ;)

[natenator]

Other than the Mary Poppins reruns I can confidently say that it wasn't environmental factors that determined my sexuality. But sexuality is innate like handedness, freckles and the curliness of hair. Environmental factors determine whether a person acts on their sexuality. Live in Iran where they will stone you to death for liking cock, not likely I'm going to act on my sexuality.

Yes not everything comes down to environment but as the research I quote points out genetics can't be determining factor on the response to drugs. And of course our individual environments play a huge role in our psychological makeup.

I'm not saying a drug-user is immoral or lacks willpower or deviant. I'm saying the key to ending their drug use is changing their environment and their ability to cope with their environment. That's why things like good housing, counseling, income support are important to getting people off drugs.

And back to the gay thing, that's the most annoying thing about how you argue it always has to be personal with you. So nasty jabs about bus drivers, if we don't read your life-altering article by the Harvard big whig than we're all lazy twats...you'd seem like less of jerk without them.

Environment is a trigger, genetics load the gun and psychology aims the gun.

Environment does not determine psychology.

To illustrate this point let's look at columbine. Those kids psychology didn't provoke the action which let them to shoot up their school. The constant bullying (their environment) did. Their psychology, however, aimed that gun.

[Dryvrgrl]

As many of us know, the influences of chemicals on the mind and body differ in degree from one person to the next. Mental health issues caused by addictions are certainty varied and individualistic. Addiction is a complicated subject but we should agree that they are certainly real.

One could argue that those people on the T.V. show "Hoarders" should just find the strength to clean up that shit and get ride of the junk. I think its a bit more complicated than that. ;)

thats the best post!! props to you!
Nate is still a 2 year year old.. I still think people can over come addictions and bodybuilders still smoke!
whew, glad we got that cleared up without things getting ugly!

[Dryvrgrl]

I used to smoke... quitting was simple.
You used to smoke and have a hard time quitting.

ok.. so we are wired different.. fine

I am pretty sure that my immunity to addiction will be helpful to me when the zombie outbreak happens!

so.. do you think "addiction" is like a gene? or a birth disorder? or a personality defect?
I mean.. if the most popular "cure" for the addiction of alcohol is abstinance and 12 steps, including accepting God or your version of a Higher Power into your life... then it sort of stands to reason that it isn't a chemical neurological issue...NON?

[natenator]

I used to smoke... quitting was simple.
You used to smoke and have a hard time quitting.

ok.. so we are wired different.. fine

I am pretty sure that my immunity to addiction will be helpful to me when the zombie outbreak happens!

so.. do you think "addiction" is like a gene? or a birth disorder? or a personality defect?
I mean.. if the most popular "cure" for the addiction of alcohol is abstinance and 12 steps, including accepting God or your version of a Higher Power into your life... then it sort of stands to reason that it isn't a chemical neurological issue...NON?
The fact people think you can boil it down to being something that simple seems foolish. I think addiction is a complex subject and WHY some people can overcome it while others struggle (even while removing themselves from their environment) makes it difficult to understand.

I am certainly no expert on the subject and I know addiction is a hotly studied problem. If some of the best of the best can't really pin point it leads me to believe it's not a black and white issue and is quite complex as is anything to do with the brain.

Btw: awesome for you quitting smoking!

[yAr]

good thread, anyone check out that 2 year old that smoked in indonesia or where ever.
He had only been smoking for 6 months and would cry when he didnt have a cigarette.
unbelievabale!

[gicantor]

food is a chemical reaction that happens in the body therefore being addicted to food IS an addiction just like any drug.

The high you experience from gambling is a chemical reaction that happens in the body. The act may not have a chemical reaction like a drug would but physiological and psychological effect it has in the body does.



I'd just like to add to this the chemical you speak of is called dopamine. The two biggest NATURAL triggers are food and sex. Anytime you feel happy is dopamine being pumped into your system. It is a extremely addictive drug. For comparison, crystal meth triggers the same drug, just in larger amounts.

[gettinbigger]

Personal jabs like you did earlier in the thread you mean? I've never once that I recall taken a shot at you so if you want to give'th then you should expect'th.

The gay references aren't personal jabs. I am using them to try and illustrate a point that I had hoped you could identify with. I am not calling you out, dissing you or making a personal attack towards you for being gay. I have zero problems with your sexual preferences just as I have zero problems with the sexual preferences of my friends whom some are also gay.

As for the bus driver remarks. They are justified in showing how an educated and uneducated opinion differ. The fact that she refuses to educate herself on a topic by saying she doesn't need to and that her opinion is her opinion is just silly and if you want to defend that then you're silly too.

Ok Nate I may just be a hypersenstive crybaby on this. So do me a favour and call up one of your homo buds and ask them to put down their evening gowns and barbie collection and then tell them that you've figured out that being gay is just like being a drug addict cuz their brain is different from a straight person's brain! If they say gee Nate I've never thought of it that way but you are so right I will stop riding your ass on this and gladly post under the name hypersensitve crybaby from this point forward.

And DUDE anyone who disagrees with you gets called an illiterate moron. I could give you a long list of examples from the short time that I've been posting here of these sorts of personal attacks but do I really need to?

As for me making it personal: I faulted your logic, I didn't connect it to your calf development or your job or who you sleep with...

Finally, yes, opinions are like assholes but both yours and mine are based on research, you think my research is shit, I think your research is shit but that doesn't mean we have to start throwing shit around...I'm not saying this has to be the Oxford Debating Society but I thought the bus driver comments were shitty.

I realize I've completely gotten away from the subject and I'm not even sure if we disagree that much. Drugs ruin peoples' lives, getting off drugs is hard, if someone gets off drugs they should be congratulated, I think we both agree on these points?

[steve_d]

good thread, anyone check out that 2 year old that smoked in indonesia or where ever.
He had only been smoking for 6 months and would cry when he didnt have a cigarette.
unbelievabale!

2 year olds are trainable to anything you give them. Mine cries if I don't give him a "buzz/woody" chocolate egg. And its not the chocolate he's after, its just the thought of opening the wrapper that he likes. Anyway, not really much about the smoking stuff, but I don't think addiction applies in the same way to babies...Anyone with kids will know that kids just get attached to things - but not addicted to them.

Who knows - maybe this is part of the addiction problem. Perhaps some people are just attached to the idea of being attached to something, and not addicted to it.

[Felinecougar]

I competed in Nationals in 06. My x is a smoker and he would try to hide out.find a place outside a hotel door where no one would see him. but he was not hiding, ONLY to find himself with male competitors beside him.

He would become edgy at shows...because he wanted a smoke but smoking in public was not cool when one professes to be an athlete.

I"m glad I now have a smoke free home

Free of the double standard,..live healthy but hey I smoke. Not me..him.

[BAM]

Tis because i personally dont believe its an addiction, just a weakness, but thats just my personal opinion...so dont shred me!)



Smoking is an addiction dryvrgrl one of the worse ones to have because it is the hardest one to quit bar none.

I quit 6 years ago, and it was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. Way harder than following a strict diet and training, way harder than gaining the muscle I have gained over the last 6 years thats for sure.

Its called nicotine, and when you are addicted and you dont have it, its worse that the craving you get for heroin. You'd pretty much kill for one in the right circumstances. Do you consider heroin an addiction drvrgirl? You really shoundn't say stupid things like that when you have no experience with it.

I quit and I wear it as a badge of honour. It was really hard, and it took me at least 7 attempts over the course of my life.
I would love for you to go through the same nicotine withdrawl as a long term smoker just so you could get a taste of reality.

Do you think the government writes addictive on the pack just to blow smoke up peoples arse as well.. ?

Its not like chocolate or some other mamby pamby craving you might have had in your life.

[Dryvrgrl]

Smoking is an addiction dryvrgrl one of the worse ones to have because it is the hardest one to quit bar none.

I quit 6 years ago, and it was the hardest thing I ever did in my life. Way harder than following a strict diet and training, way harder than gaining the muscle I have gained over the last 6 years thats for sure.

Its called nicotine, and when you are addicted and you dont have it, its worse that the craving you get for heroin. You'd pretty much kill for one in the right circumstances. Do you consider heroin an addiction drvrgirl? You really shoundn't say stupid things like that when you have no experience with it.

.

smoked for 8 years.. quit No problem.
quitting my thousand dollar a week coke habit was physically harder...

now.. PLEASE stop assuming I havent got a clue what im talking about! personal experience is what I base my "silly little" thoughts on...
PS.. my best friend from back in the day was married to the guitar tech from Motley crue... we partied with those boys too, pretty sure shes mentioned in the heroin diaries... Ive lost more freinds to it than many ppl... I know 2 girls thought to be victims of the ****en pig farmer (though the remains have yet to be positively identified), and another who was recently found in a dumpster in the north end of winnipeg... Heroin junkies don't age well... they just quit or die... no such thing as a sexy heroin whore! know what I mean?... I did nopt grow up in a guilded cage... and Yeah Nate... the blue collar dumb assed bus driver gig is NOT very mentally stimulating, but compared to where my peers have ended up.. I'd say it ain't that flipping bad!

my original question was about BB's smoking.. and if there was a reason for it.. like I dunno.. maybe it makes your veins veinier or something... Answer... NO BB's just smoke because they are like anyone else! cool!

[ironwill]

Nicotine is a stimulant, many guys chew before going in for big lifts, some guys smoke a butt....Id personally get dizzy and fall down, but that is one reason BBers smoke, not saying it is wise, but it is very true....

[tiramisu]

I think the argumunent that sexual orientation is innate is a little exagerated. In a culturally neutral society you'ld probably see an very broad range of hetero, bi, homo sexual behaviors.

The vast majority choose to be hetero-sexual as a response to the environment they are raised in.

I smoked for the better part of 20 years. I found it a surprisingly difficult drug to quit. It took the better part of 4 or 5 years before the smell of a cigarette was bad.

[cog]

I believe the poison varies for many people.Lol over Nate's comments about gays.My youngest brother is gay and the only thing I notice is that he has the best fashion sense.

[guest5]

This year I was at both National shows. I was kinda shocked by the number of competitors (both in Bodybuilding and some in figures/bikini.. I dont think I saw any fitness girls puffing).. who smoke!

I KNOW Im kinda naive.. but is there a reason for it or is smoking for BBers an "addiction" like it is for just umm.. normal people lol sorry i dont know the other term.. civilians maybe?...lol (the reason i have "addiction " in these things " " " is because i personally dont believe its an addiction, just a weakness, but thats just my personal opinion...so dont shred me!)

it strikes me as odd.. mind you, maybe because I do fitness.. I lift to get stronger and look better but also to stay healthy and young and pretty and smoking does none of those things.. so yeah.. smoking... WHY?? do you?


I think it is great you know why you do what you do! If you feel younger and prettier and healthier doing it, and that makes you feel good inside I hope you stay in the sport for many years! :) I genuinely mean that.

"it strikes me as odd.. mind you, maybe because I do fitness.."

- what does this mean? how do fitness competitors differ from bodybuilders and figure competitors? Living with a bodybuilder competitor, do you notice a difference, and if so can you explain?

- was it all of the bb'er and figure competitors outside smoking - or was it similar to how it is with the general population - some people - but not all people do it - some a lot - some a bit - some in certain circles, certain occasions etc. etc...? Were there bikini competitors out there too?


"it strikes me as odd.. mind you, maybe because I do fitness.. I lift to get stronger and look better but also to stay healthy and young and pretty and smoking does none of those things.. so yeah.. smoking... WHY?? do you?[/QUOTE]

This part is definetly more of an opinion/perception than a question...(just an observation-don't hate on me for it)

Someone could say to you.........You could do all of this and never step on a stage - so why do you? If you were doing the exact same thing but not for the stage would you feel just as young, healthy and pretty?
I think people that compete do it for various different reasons, and for some people smoking or not smoking does not interfere with their perception of themselves as athletes and they might even be able to get up in the morning, look in the mirror, light up, and see themselves and feel good (young, pretty, healthy, however they define it)....Clearly you wouldn't be able to light up and feel that way - and that is fine, there is NOTHING wrong with that - but if these people are ok with it that is OK too. Does it make them less great in their sport if they smoke? I met Brian Orser once outside of a hotel - he had just finished a show and he was smoking. He was not ashamed that I saw him doing it and had recognized him as an incredibly athletic Olympic medalist. Kudos to him for just being himself I had thought.


I think the why do bodybuilders smoke is a very funny question....it is directed at such a small group of people/athletes! I think that the question should be WHY DOES ANYONE smoke? Because I think the answers will be the same -
BUT here we go......we could try and wrap the benefits around just competitors....the inside SCOOP - figure girls and bodybuilders smoking....do they get more perks from smoking than a normal person smoking? Do they know a bigger secret about it than the rest of society about how smoking really works on a humans body in comparison to just a non bodybuilder person that does it on a regular basis for no real reason at all? Does smoking effect a bodybuilders body differently than a non bodybuilder.... Sorry - I am carrying on here :)

**lights smoke**


Sooo bodybuilders and smoking-I tried but was unable to collect data that specifically talked about bodybuilders or figure competitors....just human beings in general... how it has been linked to addiction and mental health issues....what effects the nicotine causes on a persons brain etc..thought it easiest to ask questions to explain some of the info to make it a tad more exciting...maybe more exiciting? I dunno..


Do bodybuilders think that smoking could improve their bodybuilding or bodybuilding competition experience?

Maybe. We all have different beliefs. Maybe some that smoke do so because they have been doing it for years...maybe some link it to a hand to mouth fascination that they are deprived from when they are dieting.....maybe they like that it increases their heart rate.....or maybe they don't like that part but do it anyways because of the hand to mouth part. Who knows..For bodybuilding competing (and life in general) I like all of the above and find that it wakes me up and feel more alert. I have no idea if it improves the competition experience or not-I have not not smoked and competed...I do know I get bummed out when I think about the wasted money on the smokes. I know a few people that smoke just at the end of their diet because they also believe the above stated reasons and to take the edge off their hunger - but then they quit - that would definetly be a smarter idea. I also know quite a few gym people that are closet smokers because they are tied to an image of themselves as being outwardly fit and healthy people - some even personal trainers. They feel they have to be ashamed about it and hide their addiction(s) from the people around them.

facts..

Nicotine - readily crosses the blood brain barrier and reaches the brain within 7 seconds of inhaling....

nicotine triggers biochemical events.....

dopamine - pleasure, appetite supression
norepinephrine - arousal, appetite suppresion
acetylcholide - arousal, cognitive enhancement
glutamate - learning, memory enhancement
serotinin - mood modulation, appetite suppression
beta-endorphin - reduction of anxiety and tension
gaba - reduction of anxiety and tension


there is lots of info on quitting and ways to go about doing so.....Search Smoking Cessation and you get a ton of stuff - a lot of this info seems to fall under mental health and addictions - which is how it is tied together within the healthcare system...from the above info it appears as though smoking produces some mental healthish response..more info....

Do bodybuilders that smoke do it because they are a part of a population group suffering from some type of addiction or mental health issue?

Maybe? Do bodybuilders complain ever about this sort of stuff - are they prescribed meds for this? Do bodybuilders have addictive personalities? Some do, some don't just like non-bb people right?

50-90% of individuals being medicated with mental health concerns are nicotine dependant.......nicotine dependance is highest among people with schizophrenia and substance use disorders - but also remains very high for those being treated for depression, ADHD, sleep, anxiety and personality disorders. Substance use disorders and above mentioned disorders often interwine and are called concurrent disorders

The association suggests that people with ADHD use smoking to improve attention and cognitive performance - the nicotine acts as an indirect dopamine agonist, which is relevant to attentional processing within the brain improving clinical symptoms of ADHD. There is strong evidence to support the claim that nicotine is used to manage symptoms associated with mental illness and to alleviate the side effects of medications prescribed.

kinda interesting I thought...

If bodybuilders are taking medications to treat some of the mental health and/or addictions disorders mentioned above - should they have concerns about how cigarettes might be effecting those medications?

tars of tobacco are metabolized in the liver. This has a clinically significant impact on increasing the metabolism of antipsychotics, anti-depressants, and anxiety medications....medications are metabolized quicker and therefore the blood levels are lower and smokers typically need TWICE the dosage of medications as non-smokers. When smokers abstain from their tobacco their medication blood level increase, and there is risk of increased side effects IF the medication dose is not adjusted.

Some commonly prescribed medications metabolized through the liver pathway....

benzodiazepine (used for treatment of anxiety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety), insomnia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia), agitation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychomotor_agitation), seizures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure), muscle spasms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spasm), alcohol withdrawal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal) )

opiate analgesics

SSRIs - typically used as antidepressants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant) in the treatment of depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder), anxiety disorders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety_disorder), and some personality disorders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder). They are also typically effective and used in treating premature ejaculation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ejaculation) problems as well as some cases of insomnia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insomnia).

Insulin

ETC. ETC.

Do bodybuilders smoke because they think it will help them lose weight?


Smoking fact: A smoker who smokes 20 cigarettes per day burns approximately 200 calories more each day than if he/she were a non-smoker.
To eliminate that 200 calorie gain, use the calculation below:
A person weighing 140 pounds who walks 3 miles [roughly 5km] per hour (a 20 minute mile) will burn about 95 calories per mile. 45 minutes at this pace will result in about 2 miles being walked, or 215 calories burned. This alone will prevent weight gain after quitting. Just walk a little longer or a little faster to lose weight. Also remember that 3,500 calories need to be expended or eliminated from the diet per pound of weight.

Do bodybuilders ever consider quitting smoking by way of purchasing a pill or supplement -what options are out there?

Pharmacological Strategies....

Nicotine replacement therapy - patch, gum, lozenge, nicotine inhaler
(get the buzz - without the smoke)

Bupropion SR (by prescription) -AKA - wellbutrin, zyban - Do not use if you are at risk of seizures - a depression drug that has been proven effective in also helping people quit smoking - doesn't cause weight gain, may actually cause a decrease in appetite and weight loss for some people


Champix - (by prescription) - pill - blocks nicotine from binding with receptors, rendering it ineffective - common sides - disrupted sleep, gas and constipation, nausea and vomiting


**butts smoke**

[BAM]

cigarettes and fags in the same thread?

Zing!

[Dryvrgrl]

LOL @ Grunter!
alot in there... you did some research! good job! lol

I saw BB's and figures and at least one Bikini girls smoking (it was kinda hard to tell who was bikini and who was figures when they are in sweat suits back stage..). Mostly Bodybuilders! which is why I had the question initally.
as for fitness girls smoking.. I did not see any of them doing it... mind you, there wasn't as many fit-chicks as figures/bikini, so it MIGHT just be a question of numbers... however, I PERSONALLY see fitness as a little more of a sport than figures.. I mean, we actually have to do athletics, and when I think athletics, I think cardiovascular health, and for that, I omit smoking... but again.. that's just what I do and how my thought process works.

[countrychic]

Grunter, great post girl! Doing the research helps a person to understand, people need to do more of this.

Thank-you it was great information and maybe helps people understand diffrently. To many narrow minded folks these days!

[gettinbigger]

cigarettes and fags in the same thread?

Zing!

:D

Damn I wish I'd said that...

[Forever]

The association suggests that people with ADHD use smoking to improve attention and cognitive performance - the nicotine acts as an indirect dopamine agonist, which is relevant to attentional processing within the brain improving clinical symptoms of ADHD.

This is actually pretty interesting to me because although I was never diagnosed with ADHD or anything else, as a child I displayed many of the symptoms and my mother was constantly trying to have me diagnosed as something so she could deal with it.

One of the reason's I continued smoking for 10 years was because it helped me slow down my mind and collect my thoughts into something coherent. I found if I was doing something mentally stimulating I would crave a cigarette and after smoking one it would be easier to concentrate and sit still.

I was never sure if this was because the nicotine was actually soothing something in my head, or because an addicts cravings just messed up my head and the nicotine made it go away.

Although as I aged my difficulty concentrating seemed to somewhat alleviate and by the time I quite it wasn't really an issue anymore so I can't really comment on this as a post smoker.

Although I did find that without the nicotine high's and low's, once the withdrawal symptoms went away my overall mood improved. Not as relaxed as right after smoking a cigarette, but on average more relaxed and stable.

[guest5]

LOL @ Grunter!
alot in there... you did some research! good job! lol

I saw BB's and figures and at least one Bikini girls smoking (it was kinda hard to tell who was bikini and who was figures when they are in sweat suits back stage..). Mostly Bodybuilders! which is why I had the question initally.
as for fitness girls smoking.. I did not see any of them doing it... mind you, there wasn't as many fit-chicks as figures/bikini, so it MIGHT just be a question of numbers... however, I PERSONALLY see fitness as a little more of a sport than figures.. I mean, we actually have to do athletics, and when I think athletics, I think cardiovascular health, and for that, I omit smoking... but again.. that's just what I do and how my thought process works.

Also, at the end of the diet - with the smoking - it increased a LOT. I recall thinking.....this is all i have left...they can't take my smokes away from me....they are mine, ALL mine! :) Then I ate wayyyy too much and the smoking was rapidly reduced to what is still an unhealthy, expensive habit-addiction-hand to mouth hobby- not sure where I am exactly with regards to defining...

Fitness is amazing. I doubt you would feel much of a difference if you smoked 5-8 a day- but then of course why would you want to add it as a supplement for the suggested "perks" when you already know you can get in great shape without it and do not have to spend the money, smell, etc. I should have asked Brian Orser how much he smoked and how long he had been doing it while in his sport. Thank you for taking the time to read my lengthly and kind of over the top response - as the reading and information gathering (which was oddly enjoyable) did take up a nice chunk of my evening.;)

[guest5]

Grunter, great post girl! Doing the research helps a person to understand, people need to do more of this.

Thank-you it was great information and maybe helps people understand diffrently. To many narrow minded folks these days!

Thank you for reading it :D Reading, analyzing, group brain storming is all fun times!

[bcaamuscle]

This makes me want to smoke. Damn you all :(