Is it REALLY important to taper T3?

[guym]

I've always gone with the conventional answer: Yes. But I remember reading an article - can't find it now - where it had some pretty well supported arguments saying it was not at all needed. I believe it applied to T4 as well.

Anyone have their .02 to add? I don't at all mind doing it, but if it's not needed, why do it...

[Prisoner#22]

No. not important to taper off it at all.

[baza]

No one really knows the true effects of t3, everyone just reposts information from 20 years ago that was mostly false.
However, I still taper off.

But I've used it in the past 100mcgs two days on two days off, with no taper up or taper.

[guym]

Curious: Why 2 days on, 2 off?

[theboss]

Curious: Why 2 days on, 2 off?

my guess....probably an attempt to prevent permanent thyroid shut down....much like you would being doing by tapering.

[Prisoner#22]

The thyroid is not like the htpa. Provided you were euthyroid prior to using t3 (that means normal) and your use of it wasn't too long, you should have no problems picking up where you left off once you remove the presense of the extra thyroid hormone.

[Prisoner#22]

the whole 'thyroid crash' etc thing is a myth purportrated by "bros" on line who are just repeating stuff that they have read from someone else.

I did some research a few years back on this and found it not to be true. I use t3 every year close during competition and stop it cold turkey a few days out from the show, and never have a problem.

[baza]

^^^ Like I said, reposted information from 20 years ago that someone made up.


Curious: Why 2 days on, 2 off?


my guess....probably an attempt to prevent permanent thyroid shut down....much like you would being doing by tapering.

Author L Rea designed it for me many years ago. I forget his reasoning for it. This was 6+ years ago.

[guym]

The thyroid is not like the htpa. Provided you were euthyroid prior to using t3 (that means normal) and your use of it wasn't too long, you should have no problems picking up where you left off once you remove the presense of the extra thyroid hormone.

Curious if you could define "too long" as I've read where people stay on at 100mcg for 8-9 months, and rest up the rest of the year. Alarm bells go off at this in my head, but again, it may be old school thinking.

I'm just planning the usual +/- 4 weeks cycle.

[Body By Balco]

At least one published study looked at individuals who were misdiagnosed as thyroid deficient and placed on exogenous thyroid medication. Typical time was ~4-6 months before proper diagnosis was established and thyroid medication ceased (ie cold turkey). There were no ill effects or short to mid term issues during the subsequent follow up. Thryoid function returned to normal function in a relatively short period of time.

[guym]

So I would suppose that more than 6 months would be...pushing it?

[4031]

So I would suppose that more than 6 months would be...pushing it?

ya i would think so

[guym]

Thanks, all.

This time I'm doing my regular "close to a month" thing, but with no tapering. We shall see!

Oh, and by chance I have a physical 2-3 weeks after my T3 ends, so I should get good feedback on recovery. :)

[macka]

You should be good but if you are going to use Lasix, make sure you are not taking T3 or T4. It slows or blocks the uptake of the drugs. Don't ask me why I know this, but for some reason I do.

[Praetorian]

Technically the issue is NOT will the thyroid recover the issue is timing. The endocrine system runs on feedback loops and once the exogenous thyroid is removed the feed back loop is broken and hence recovery or restarting of the thyroid can commence. However and this is a big however...how fast recovery is initiated depends on some variables...ie length on thyroid, age, sex (male or female) dosage taken to some degree. Because the timing can vary from individual to individual it is important to reduce the time where T3 or T4 to T3 conversion is low...thus tapering allows the individual to reduce this time and prevent any unwanted fat gain. The other issue is not necessarily about thyroid but its overall effects...stopping cold turkey can have negative effects such as water retention, cardiac issues etc...tapering especially for women will reduce most unwanted sides and eliminate most of the low periods. Men recover quicker with less sides but can still get unwanted sides.
P

[Body By Balco]

The question, which is likely easily answered, however I am too lazy, is how much T4/T3 is endogenously produced in a typical individual in a day. Any exogenous amount above that will still result in shut down. Any tapering off of medication could be tedious and unnecessary. If 12.5mcg is the magic endogenous number, who the hell can taper down form that?? If you are taking above 12,5mcg per day the gland is still shut down. It 25mcg is the magic number, a small taper could occur where 12.5mcg is taken for a couple of weeks, but beyond that, it becomes unnecessary.

A key point IMO is that off is off and there is no such thing as more off (in terms of glandular output).

[guym]

The question, which is likely easily answered, however I am too lazy, is how much T4/T3 is endogenously produced in a typical individual in a day. Any exogenous amount above that will still result in shut down. Any tapering off of medication could be tedious and unnecessary. If 12.5mcg is the magic endogenous number, who the hell can taper down form that?? If you are taking above 12,5mcg per day the gland is still shut down. It 25mcg is the magic number, a small taper could occur where 12.5mcg is taken for a couple of weeks, but beyond that, it becomes unnecessary.

A key point IMO is that off is off and there is no such thing as more off (in terms of glandular output).

Agreed. Like the people that "only" run 200mg of test a week to "rest" their endo. system. Umm, it's still 100% off/shut down!

[Praetorian]

The question, which is likely easily answered, however I am too lazy, is how much T4/T3 is endogenously produced in a typical individual in a day. Any exogenous amount above that will still result in shut down. Any tapering off of medication could be tedious and unnecessary. If 12.5mcg is the magic endogenous number, who the hell can taper down form that?? If you are taking above 12,5mcg per day the gland is still shut down. It 25mcg is the magic number, a small taper could occur where 12.5mcg is taken for a couple of weeks, but beyond that, it becomes unnecessary.

A key point IMO is that off is off and there is no such thing as more off (in terms of glandular output).

Yes shut down is shut down but you are missing other key points...ie relative sides, cardiac issues, etc. If you look at those patients who are actually thyroid deficient ie hypo thyroid and change their medication whether it be up or down there are significant sides as a results...and they are much higher than 12.5mcg daily. You have to look at the big picture not just purely recovery. Large changes in hormone illicit large sides...irregardless of current dosage...my Fiance has dealt with hormone issues one being thyroid for 20 plus years as well is the the Director of a Hormone Clinic...it not as simple as you make it out to be.
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[nitrous]

i was actually thinking about this the other day and decided i would just taper it.. like why not

[macka]

Yes shut down is shut down but you are missing other key points...ie relative sides, cardiac issues, etc. If you look at those patients who are actually thyroid deficient ie hypo thyroid and change their medication whether it be up or down there are significant sides as a results...and they are much higher than 12.5mcg daily. You have to look at the big picture not just purely recovery. Large changes in hormone illicit large sides...irregardless of current dosage...my Fiance has dealt with hormone issues one being thyroid for 20 plus years as well is the the Director of a Hormone Clinic...it not as simple as you make it out to be.
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cardiac sides? what else? lethargy and fat gain are a given, and my search of the lancet revealed next to nothing.

[Praetorian]

cardiac sides? what else? lethargy and fat gain are a given, and my search of the lancet revealed next to nothing.
Researchers at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation in Ohio have released new findings showing that correcting an underactive thyroid gland normalizes elevated homocysteine levels in the blood. Even more amazing is that the researchers were able to normalize homocysteine levels without having to administer any of the B vitamins. In other words, correcting the thyroid problem in turn corrected the vitamin deficiency. (Ann Intern Med 99;131(5):348-51)

FYI....good read.

This newly discovered link between hypothyroidism and heart disease supports the decades-old research of Dr. Broda Barnes. Dr. Barnes published the book, Solved: The Riddle of Heart Attacks, back in 1976. Based on his research and clinical experience, Dr. Barnes strongly suggested that heart disease was caused by hypothyroidism. Although we didn't know about homocysteine at the time, there were plenty of indications that the thyroid gland was involved in cardiovascular disease. Results of studies conducted as far back as the early 1900s showed the strong relationship between thyroid activity and fat metabolism: Blood-fat levels (and cholesterol) increase with an underactive thyroid and decrease with an overactive thyroid.

Thanks to the research team in Ohio, we now have a much more detailed understanding of this relationship, one that shows a clear therapeutic application. In other words, we can use the thyroid to monitor and even correct heart problems. Visit the Alternative Medicine section of the Links page to find out how to test your thyroid. Any imbalances that may exist can be corrected, not only to stop heart disease, but to improve dozens of seemingly unrelated problems that have a common origin.

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[macka]

Cleveland Clinic, they also co related hypothyroidism and B12 deficiency. One of the cutting edge places for research.

[rickyboy36]

my guess....probably an attempt to prevent permanent thyroid shut down....much like you would being doing by tapering.

Permanent shutdown is a myth.T3 is very much safe--a lot safer than what most people think.There have been reports about people who had been given thyroid medication for 20 yrs(t3) by doctors who had mistakingly diagnosed the patient with thyroid disfucntion who recovered a couple of weeks after been taken off.

The thing you need to remember is when you lose weight quickly,wether thats with clen,t3,cardio,diet or whatever,you need to taper off gradually or start back up very slowly(like when ending a diet) or else the body goes into survival/defensive mode and starts to "store" things to ensure survival.Its called the rebound effect and you need to make the transition or the cutoff as smooth as possible...