IDFA Ottawa Classic - October 30th, 2010

[Bbuilder31]

Anyone here doing it. I have decided to give it a shot. I was going to do the show in Hamilton on the 11th, but decided due to cost, its really not worth it. So IDFA Ottawa it is, and then Toronto a week later should all go well. Cheated for the last 2.5 weeks and sitting just under 190 - It will be exactly 8 weeks to show time this saturday - so Cleaning it up going to come in at 172 - 175lbs on stage - can't wait. Hope to see some HUGE support out there from the locals

[steve_d]

If you want to do the world qualifiers in Montreal next easter weekend, you have to do the sept 11th show. Cost should only be travel and hotel...If you plan on doing the toronto IDFA in november, its the same cost so why not give the hamilton show a shot!! (unless of course your not ready - under 2 weeks away now!)

[Bbuilder31]

I won't be ready for Hamilton, not now. I suffered a minor injury set back as well, which pushed my progress back. October 30th will present a good opportunity and I hope to kill it :) I wont' be to your caliber Steve, but I am working on it - You definately have Maritime genetics haha...lucky

[steve_d]

There is always the Ottawa show as well (OPA) the week after the Ottawa IDFA show...Any thoughts on doing that? Maybe taking home another best poser trophy!

[Bbuilder31]

the thought is definately there, however if I win in October, I am set to compete in Toronto a week on Nov. 6 - if I win there - I get my IDFA pro-card. Would be pretty awesome - considering Doc's said I could compete because of my heart condition. Best poser award would be nice again :)

[Bbuilder31]

Just quick update - 5 weeks out as of Saturday and feeling good. Weighed in yesterday afternoon at 181lbs @ 6% - right on point. I can't wait to step on stage :)

Have a great one folks - don't forget to come out and support the locals and scream your heads off!

[monsteryogi]

Good luck with the comp! I might be in the crowd if I can schedule a quick flight up there, have a great last couple of weeks training!

[Bbuilder31]

Hope you can make it out! Thanks for the boost - I am sitting at 5% Bodyfat right now with just under 2 weeks to go - I am so stoked - my vascularity and muscle maturity is at its best I have ever seen.....Let's hope I show them how its done :)

[Bbuilder31]

Well its Wednesday Oct. 27th, 2010 - only 3 days tills how time. I am in the process of my carbload/watershed and its working nicely - I am cotton mouthed already, and the vascularity this year is retarded. I have veins I didn't know I had compared to last november's show. This will prove to be the best shape I have been in ever - I can only hope that I am at the peak of shake to take the over-all - its doubtful but I have faith in my ability. Hope to see a lot of you at the show whether we are sharing the stage or in the Audience cheering us all along.

Thanks for reading
Mike

[MuSuLPhReAk]

Good luck on your show Saturday. Get us some pics :)

[Andre Gregoire]

Good luck. Wish I could be there.

[Bbuilder31]

I will definately get some pics from the show, from my personal camera, those of my friends and family and of course the pro pics I pre-ordered :)

Thanks so much for your well wishes :) I really appreciate that a lot. Dry as F*** right now and only going to get dryer by Saturday - no popcorn farts here lmao


Have a great one and thanks for reading

[shredded_Tris]

Well its Wednesday Oct. 27th, 2010 - only 3 days tills how time. I am in the process of my carbload/watershed and its working nicely - I am cotton mouthed already, and the vascularity this year is retarded. I have veins I didn't know I had compared to last november's show. This will prove to be the best shape I have been in ever - I can only hope that I am at the peak of shake to take the over-all - its doubtful but I have faith in my ability. Hope to see a lot of you at the show whether we are sharing the stage or in the Audience cheering us all along.

Thanks for reading
Mike

DUDE! am I understanding this correctly? You Cut your water on Wednesday??? HOLY Crap!! Is this something you've done before?

[Bbuilder31]

No no...you see I start cutting my water - not completely - its a gradual thing. I have been drinking 6 litres of water up until Tuesday night - then Wednesday I cut down to 3 litres, today 1.5 litres and tomorrow 2 cups then no water till after the show - Its gradual don't worry - I am not retarded

[shredded_Tris]

Just making sure man lol
Cause I know a guy that cut his water on like Wednesday before haha
Don't know how he didnt die

[Bbuilder31]

No worries brother - thanks for the concern - this isn't my 1st walk across the stage - this marks my 5th show. I actually competed in Moncton twice :) Where abouts in NB are you?

[shredded_Tris]

Fredericton. Which year did you do the atlantics?

[Bbuilder31]

I am originally from Moncton -I did the Mathieu Martin Show before. it was my 1st show in 2003.

By the way update folks - those of you that didn't go to the IDFA show Oct. 30 at the Civ. Musuem I took 3rd in the middleweight, but missed 2nd by 1 point. Gotta bring the wheels out more. Giving myself a year to prep for the next show here and then obliterate the competition. I know I will be dialed in enough for the next show.

[Andre Gregoire]

Congrats. Any pics?

[steve_d]

I am originally from Moncton -I did the Mathieu Martin Show before. it was my 1st show in 2003.

By the way update folks - those of you that didn't go to the IDFA show Oct. 30 at the Civ. Musuem I took 3rd in the middleweight, but missed 2nd by 1 point. Gotta bring the wheels out more. Giving myself a year to prep for the next show here and then obliterate the competition. I know I will be dialed in enough for the next show.

I don't want to sound rude, but the process of bodybuilding is a baby steps thing. I hear this type of thing all the time - Next year I will bring in a package no one has ever seen before...Next year I will be unstoppable...next year I plan to jump 3 weight classes and turn pro, etc...

My advice would be yes, bring up the legs as much as possible in a year. Genetics would dictate that in a years time, you will still have legs as a weakness, however, you may be able to bridge the gap slightly. My legs were my weakness and in 3 years time, with no dieting for shows, etc, I was able to bring them up enough that they are no longer a weakness (but yes, they could still be bigger to catch up to my strengths).

Baby steps...In 1 year, you should be able to put on 2-3 pounds of muscle, and next diet you could also come in tighter...So a SUCCESSFULyear would be to come in at the same weight, just leaner. A goal of obliterating the competition is, in my opinion, too high of an expectation to put on yourself.

Again, this isn't meant to be rude, just a point to anyone else who reads this to put into perspective what is realistic when you start competing. Especially for people in our shows who aren't just starting out...Each year gains become harder, and therefore tremendous leap in 1 year simply doesn't happen anymore!

[ironwill]

If you are natural, then yes....2-3 lbs will be OK, even that is low...IMO....If not natural, then id be quitting if you can only add 2-3 lbs of muscle in a yr...Especially at this stage of the game, meaning very early as it is only comp.#5.....
people saying only 2-3 lbs is crazy talk, get out there and bust hump.....
Everything else you wrote steved, i agree with......But not the 2-3 lbs.......No way...My girl has added more than that this yr.....
I dont talk crap, if i write it, believe it, it will be proven.... ;^)

[steve_d]

I can speak for all naturals out there that if you gain 3 pounds per year, (after the first 5 years) you are doing exceptionally well.

I am not talking putting on 20 pounds over the xmas holidays. I am also not talking about testing it using calipers, or hydrostatic testing, or other methods. I am talking on stage body weight.

Let's use me as an example. At age 20, I would compete at about 140-142, not really ripped had I beed ripped, more like 132. By age 25 I was 149 and really ripped. So I am guessing in those first 5 years, I gained at most 20 pounds. I shouldn't say first 5 years since I was training fairly consistent since age 16 or so.

Since then, I've gained another 12-15 pounds. I am 30. So I've put on 30 pounds of muscle in 10 years. Looking back to my progress throughout the years, you'd be silly to think I didn't have success in building muscle. If you think 5 pounds is more realistic than that puts me on stage at 182 shredded as a natural athlete.

I'll tell you right now that that would be impossible.

I will go as far as to say someone not natural would have a good year adding 5 pounds of quality muscle (again, stage weight muscle from the previous year). If I am wrong, then why is it that every year, the good guys are falling in the same weight classes? The only ones moving up are showing up soft, or just starting out. After a few years, yearly differences are only tweaking weaknesses, and getting better conditioning..NOT adding 10 pounds of true muscle.

There may be an exception to the rule, but 5 pounds is a really good gain for ANYONE in a year, natural or not. Unless of course you're talking about a natural turning into a non-natural...Then you'll see a nice jump (but then again...I would call that year 1, after that you won't see 15 pound jumps anymore).

I dunno...this type of thing just frustrates me. I hear it way too often. People overestimate how much they can gain in a years time. If I can gain 5 pounds per year for the next 7 years, that puts me over 200 pounds at 5'6 ripped. But I know its not happening.

[ironwill]

I can agree that one wont be gaining 7-8 lbs of muscle, yr after yr....BUT, i can also say with absolute certainty, that if one does everything pretty correctly, and they are at the amateur level, and only a show, or a few shows in, One can and will gain 7-8 lbs....You need to read up on some Doggcrapp stuff my friend, Check out some of his guys and you will see many, many of us do it regularly....Not fat gain, im talking real muscle, when dieted down jumping a weight class or so....One of my good friends is top 3 in Canada, went from middle weight lower end, to light heavies, higer end in a little over a yr...He is no genetic freak either....Hard damn working norther boy he is...
I understand your frustrations, as i have similar ones with guys saying it cannot be done....
It can, and it does get done....
Ill guarantee, if you happen to catch any logs of my contest this yr, there will be no doubt that i have gained many a lb of muscle coming up....Not sure exactly how much, but it will be more than 8 lbs.....
Im not going to convince you of that on here, and my motto is, dont tell me what you can do, show me....Thats what i do...
Gone back to full time DC trng, and eating, and cant wait for showtime...
Maybe when one is of a smaller stature i can see your point, but when a fella has a large frame, and over 6 foot tall, it happens, a lot....
I dont know, not wanting to argue with you, but again, i get so frustrated in guys saying you cant!!!!lol...peace

[Andre Gregoire]

Good respectful discussion guys. Both of you have good points, so my opinion is to go with the middle number so 4-6lbs per year...he he he

[steve_d]

I guess we could come up with a formula to say the shorter you are, the less pounds per year. But then again the taller you are, the more pounds per year is required to actually visually see an improvement.

I dunno. Anyone should be perfectly content with gaining 2-3 pounds per year as a natural, or perhaps double that as non-natural. Take those numbers and add a bit if you're 6 feet or taller. I am just going by my own experience - and I wouldn't say my training sux, even though It's not dog crap. I think my brother's resume also speaks for itself. No one would ever say his training philosophy is stupid after seeing what he's done...and again, another example of 2-3 consistent pounds per year.

Let's just throw some other names up here. Ron Partlow...in the last 10 years, how much has he gained? No one is saying he doesn't know how to train, or that he should quit, but again, baby steps to get to where you want to be. How about Pat bernard? He's been placing as a middleweight at nationals for years...5 pounds per year would put him as a top end heavy...more than that and he's a super heavy? How about my buddy Che, freaky lightweight always doing well in all his shows, yet he continues to compete as a lightweight...Denis Pednault - another freaky competitor, natural too - yet he's a bantam every year he competes, and has done so for 5-6 years now...So shouldn't he at least be a welter by now? Larry Vinette...after stearing away from the Fame shows, he's been consistently in the 190s show after show....why hasn't he gotten up to 210?

Is everyone's training wrong?

And I'd like to know who your friend is that placed top 3 as a middle to a light heavy...No disrespect to him, but was he top 3 as a middle, or did he place top 3 as a light heavy. If the former, and didn't do well as a light-heavy, it only means he just didn't come in lean enough, or he weighed in before drying up, or he went from natural to non-natural.

We can disagree on this, but my point remains about Bbuilder's post - don't expect to jump from 170 to 190 in a year and obliterate the competition in a year. And I'll even add that that won't happen even going from natural to non.

I can come up with many examples of natural guys going on and basically placing no better in a higher weight class. Once you gotta compete against guys in the 190s at a high level, it becomes more than just packing on a bit of muscle to be competitive.

[Ron Partlow]

I guess we could come up with a formula to say the shorter you are, the less pounds per year. But then again the taller you are, the more pounds per year is required to actually visually see an improvement.

I dunno. Anyone should be perfectly content with gaining 2-3 pounds per year as a natural, or perhaps double that as non-natural. Take those numbers and add a bit if you're 6 feet or taller. I am just going by my own experience - and I wouldn't say my training sux, even though It's not dog crap. I think my brother's resume also speaks for itself. No one would ever say his training philosophy is stupid after seeing what he's done...and again, another example of 2-3 consistent pounds per year.

Let's just throw some other names up here. Ron Partlow...in the last 10 years, how much has he gained? No one is saying he doesn't know how to train, or that he should quit, but again, baby steps to get to where you want to be. How about Pat bernard? He's been placing as a middleweight at nationals for years...5 pounds per year would put him as a top end heavy...more than that and he's a super heavy? How about my buddy Che, freaky lightweight always doing well in all his shows, yet he continues to compete as a lightweight...Denis Pednault - another freaky competitor, natural too - yet he's a bantam every year he competes, and has done so for 5-6 years now...So shouldn't he at least be a welter by now? Larry Vinette...after stearing away from the Fame shows, he's been consistently in the 190s show after show....why hasn't he gotten up to 210?

Is everyone's training wrong?

And I'd like to know who your friend is that placed top 3 as a middle to a light heavy...No disrespect to him, but was he top 3 as a middle, or did he place top 3 as a light heavy. If the former, and didn't do well as a light-heavy, it only means he just didn't come in lean enough, or he weighed in before drying up, or he went from natural to non-natural.

We can disagree on this, but my point remains about Bbuilder's post - don't expect to jump from 170 to 190 in a year and obliterate the competition in a year. And I'll even add that that won't happen even going from natural to non.

I can come up with many examples of natural guys going on and basically placing no better in a higher weight class. Once you gotta compete against guys in the 190s at a high level, it becomes more than just packing on a bit of muscle to be competitive.

Bottom line is, there is a HUGE difference between making good lean gains, and gains in actual "stage weight" which is, essentially, dehydrated weight.

When I started dieting for my first Nationals in 2000, I was 275, and competed at 243. This past year, I started my diet at 315 and competed at 263. At 315 I looked leaner than I did at 275 ten years earlier. I gained 40 pounds of off season weight, in equal or better condition, and still only competed 20 pounds heavier.

My point being that 10 pounds of good off season weight DOES NOT equal 10 pounds on stage. It equals about 2-3 MAX or whatever it works out to. Depends on how you come in.....in the end, weight doesn't mean anything anyway.

Imagine how much you could change your shape if you just added 1 pound of ground beef to each delt and each quad sweep. That would only be 4 pounds, but imagine the difference to your silhouette.

Cheers
Ron

[steve_d]

Couldn't agree more Ron! I was just saying this point to my wife yesterday...I was saying that personally my offseason weight seems to climb more each year, and even though I am no fatter, the dehydrated weight remains as a slow and steady climb. And you're weights have supported this fully. You compete 20 pounds heavier in ten years, which to me is an outstanding improvement.

This year, I've gotten to over 190 morning weight, which is the heaviest I've ever been. I am a good 15 pounds heavier than last year at this time, and in my opinion, leaner. At this pace, I should be close to 180 on stage next year...But again, it's not gonna happen!

[natenator]

Couldn't agree more Ron! I was just saying this point to my wife yesterday...I was saying that personally my offseason weight seems to climb more each year, and even though I am no fatter, the dehydrated weight remains as a slow and steady climb. And you're weights have supported this fully. You compete 20 pounds heavier in ten years, which to me is an outstanding improvement.

This year, I've gotten to over 190 morning weight, which is the heaviest I've ever been. I am a good 15 pounds heavier than last year at this time, and in my opinion, leaner. At this pace, I should be close to 180 on stage next year...But again, it's not gonna happen!
People like to be blind rather than facing up to reality.

[ironwill]

I guess we could come up with a formula to say the shorter you are, the less pounds per year. But then again the taller you are, the more pounds per year is required to actually visually see an improvement.

I dunno. Anyone should be perfectly content with gaining 2-3 pounds per year as a natural, or perhaps double that as non-natural. Take those numbers and add a bit if you're 6 feet or taller. I am just going by my own experience - and I wouldn't say my training sux, even though It's not dog crap. I think my brother's resume also speaks for itself. No one would ever say his training philosophy is stupid after seeing what he's done...and again, another example of 2-3 consistent pounds per year.

Let's just throw some other names up here. Ron Partlow...in the last 10 years, how much has he gained? No one is saying he doesn't know how to train, or that he should quit, but again, baby steps to get to where you want to be. How about Pat bernard? He's been placing as a middleweight at nationals for years...5 pounds per year would put him as a top end heavy...more than that and he's a super heavy? How about my buddy Che, freaky lightweight always doing well in all his shows, yet he continues to compete as a lightweight...Denis Pednault - another freaky competitor, natural too - yet he's a bantam every year he competes, and has done so for 5-6 years now...So shouldn't he at least be a welter by now? Larry Vinette...after stearing away from the Fame shows, he's been consistently in the 190s show after show....why hasn't he gotten up to 210?

Is everyone's training wrong?

And I'd like to know who your friend is that placed top 3 as a middle to a light heavy...No disrespect to him, but was he top 3 as a middle, or did he place top 3 as a light heavy. If the former, and didn't do well as a light-heavy, it only means he just didn't come in lean enough, or he weighed in before drying up, or he went from natural to non-natural.

We can disagree on this, but my point remains about Bbuilder's post - don't expect to jump from 170 to 190 in a year and obliterate the competition in a year. And I'll even add that that won't happen even going from natural to non.

I can come up with many examples of natural guys going on and basically placing no better in a higher weight class. Once you gotta compete against guys in the 190s at a high level, it becomes more than just packing on a bit of muscle to be competitive.

He placed top 3 in the middles, and got 5th in light heavies...Then went back to middles, and got third once again, but way, to depleted this time...Noticeably...
Definitely dont think youre training wrong steve, nor anyone else, i havent seen anyone else train.......I am using DC guys as examples, because thats what i am most familiar with..., not saying it is be all, end all trng.
Again, i am only saying that i get frustrated hearing guys say they cannot, and again i am talking first few shows in beginning of BB attempts.Not seasoned vets....
You are correct it takes more to see an improvement in taller guys...But i believe a taller larger framed guy would gain more in a yr than a shorter, smaller framed guy would, everything being equal....

Ron, cool to see you joining the discussion..., would you say you gained 6-8 lbs of muscle per yr in your first few years of competition?? Have you ever gained 6-8 lbs in a yr?? How much was the most gained in your career in one year??
I also think the way one diets down definitely makes a difference also, in the end result....Maybe some guys try a different diet technique etc, then they may lose more muscle in his prep, than if he did a different style, One can have cortisol, or thyroid differences during prep, that would make a big difference in final result, BUT, one may have actually built that extra muscle off season, and lost more due to different conditions...Thats my opinion, anyway...???

[natenator]

He placed top 3 in the middles, and got 5th in light heavies...Then went back to middles, and got third once again, but way, to depleted this time...Noticeably...
Definitely dont think youre training wrong steve, nor anyone else, i havent seen anyone else train.......I am using DC guys as examples, because thats what i am most familiar with..., not saying it is be all, end all trng.
Again, i am only saying that i get frustrated hearing guys say they cannot, and again i am talking first few shows in beginning of BB attempts.Not seasoned vets....
You are correct it takes more to see an improvement in taller guys...But i believe a taller larger framed guy would gain more in a yr than a shorter, smaller framed guy would, everything being equal....

Ron, cool to see you joining the discussion..., would you say you gained 6-8 lbs of muscle per yr in your first few years of competition?? Have you ever gained 6-8 lbs in a yr?? How much was the most gained in your career in one year??
I also think the way one diets down definitely makes a difference also, in the end result....Maybe some guys try a different diet technique etc, then they may lose more muscle in his prep, than if he did a different style, One can have cortisol, or thyroid differences during prep, that would make a big difference in final result, BUT, one may have actually built that extra muscle off season, and lost more due to different conditions...Thats my opinion, anyway...???

Contest prep dieting strategy is for sure a major factor.

I knew a guy who basically cheated throughout his diet until the final 5-6 weeks and then had to haul ass to make it. The following year he stuck to the diet, did the cardio as he should have been doing and low and behold he came in heavier and leaner than the previous year.

He'll tell you he gained 10lbs of stage weight and I'll tell him he's full of shit.

[Andre Gregoire]

Contest prep dieting strategy is for sure a major factor.

I knew a guy who basically cheated throughout his diet until the final 5-6 weeks and then had to haul ass to make it. The following year he stuck to the diet, did the cardio as he should have been doing and low and behold he came in heavier and leaner than the previous year.

He'll tell you he gained 10lbs of stage weight and I'll tell him he's full of shit.

Dan Feduluk explains that he did just that in his interview on CBB. Weighed like 15lbs more or something like that in 1 year but he explained the reason.

Also, obviously the more advanced you are like Ron, the closer you are to your potential and the slower the gains are.

[BigGuns21]

"Technically" I'm the exception to Steve's argument. In 09 I stepped on stage at 175 and won the MW's, missed the overall by a 3-4 judge's split and this year I stepped on stage at 192 and placed 2nd in the LHW's, so 17lbs of stage muscle in one year. But did I gain 17lbs of stage muscle in one year? NO, it means I f'd my diet up in 09, ate into too much muscle, came in hard but flatter and smaller than I should have been. My offseason weight from '09to '10 went from 220 to 233, so less weight than I carried to the stage, mind you I was much tighter at 233 than I was at 220. A slight alteration to your diet can easily make a 3lb difference on stage, not necessarily mean you gained "x" lbs. That's where I think the numbers get skewed with some guys, you don't dial in right one year, then nail it the next and don't sacrifice as much muscle and you think you gained stage weight when you really didn't.

3-4lbs natural gains of legitimate stage weight per year, for a seasoned competitor would be the most I can see anyone doing, unless the offseason caloric intake was super low and you started eating like a man. 10-12lbs juiced gains would be the top end of what someone could put on and still hit the stage as conditioned or even more conditioned than the previous year.
I was still a little flat in my second show and should have been closer to 196, but this is why I've acquired the services of one Mr.Pakulski to take me into Provincials next June.

Mike is a buddy of mine and in my opinion is a phenomenal natural bb, especially when you take into consideration his heart condition. I can attest to the fact that this guy is 110% natural, right to stage day. I didn't get to see him last weekend, but the difference from May 09 to Nov 09 in his dryness was amazing. Tighter than many guys I know poppin diuretics. To continuously place top 3 in untested events against guys like me is something to be said. I'm gonna get him in with me for some back and leg workouts this offseason and murder him, lol.

[ironwill]

[QUOTE=BigGuns21;402818

3-4lbs natural gains of legitimate stage weight per year, for a seasoned competitor would be the most I can see anyone doing, unless the offseason caloric intake was super low and you started eating like a man. 10-12lbs juiced gains would be the top end of what someone could put on and still hit the stage as conditioned or even more conditioned than the previous year.
I was still a little flat in my second show and should have been closer to 196, but this is why I've acquired the services of one Mr.Pakulski to take me into Provincials next June.

[/QUOTE]
Agreed, and water manipulation etc...all make a huge diffence....
I am hiring an expert as well to bring me in, as i f'd up myself last yr in the last weeks alone, went kamikaze....lol..
I learnt my lesson, and now cant wait to work with my new coach....Just have to hire him...lol

[steve_d]

He placed top 3 in the middles, and got 5th in light heavies...Then went back to middles, and got third once again, but way, to depleted this time...Noticeably...


what I see hear is a guy who is hovering around 2 categories, and likely the only real difference from year to year is how much water he's got to lose by the time he hits weigh in. I weighed in at sudbury at 170. If I were like most guys, I would tell everyone, I am 170. But I was on stage at 162. The following week I weighed in at 162. Not alot of people are like me in wanting to know how much I weigh at all times. And alot of people carb up so much different than I do, and end up 10 pounds heavier on stage then they should have been. Not looking any better or worse, but with an extra 10 pounds of junk floating in their gut. Again, so much variability.

For me, my weight is my weight. I am dehydrated when I compete, and my stomach is as empty as it can get by the time I am on stage. So my weight iincreases are easy to know what it is. Its not water, food, fat, etc. When you come in consistently shredded each year, and you weigh yourself as often as I do, you start to see the pattern and know what is a real weight gain.



He'll tell you he gained 10lbs of stage weight and I'll tell him he's full of shit.

My point exactly. I overheard so many guys telling everyone at weigh-ins - oh...i put on 10 pounds this year. you look at them and its either 10 pounds of fat, or its 10 pounds of water they havent peed out yet. It's such a vain sport, that most guys like to brag about what they've done or what they will do. But like you say, they're kidding themselves and hiding behind what the truth is...


Dan Feduluk explains that he did just that in his interview on CBB. Weighed like 15lbs more or something like that in 1 year but he explained the reason.

Also, obviously the more advanced you are like Ron, the closer you are to your potential and the slower the gains are.

Exactly, when you screw up your prep 1 year, and get it right the next, its easy to say you gained alot. You aren't comparing apples to apples though. Which is what bigGuns explains...



3-4lbs natural gains of legitimate stage weight per year, for a seasoned competitor would be the most I can see anyone doing, unless the offseason caloric intake was super low and you started eating like a man. 10-12lbs juiced gains would be the top end of what someone could put on and still hit the stage as conditioned or even more conditioned than the previous year..

yep - 3 or 4 at MOST...yet people are disappointed when they only gained say 1. a gain is a gain in my mind. Which is why alot of people show up soft the year after they were ripped. They get a number in their head, and end up sacrificing getting lean because they think they gained 10 pounds of muscle. In the end they gained 2 muscle, 8 fat.

Again, when you first start out, the 3-4 might be 6-7. But then again, I honestly don't think ANYONE should be on stage in a BBing event if they are just starting out. Why start messing around with dieting all the time from the get go. Take some time to work out, and get at least some sort of base before you jump on stage. So by the time you are on stage, you aren't "new", and thus those crazy 6-7 pound first year gains are a thing of the past.

[natenator]

Mike is a buddy of mine and in my opinion is a phenomenal natural bb, especially when you take into consideration his heart condition. I can attest to the fact that this guy is 110% natural, right to stage day. I didn't get to see him last weekend, but the difference from May 09 to Nov 09 in his dryness was amazing. Tighter than many guys I know poppin diuretics. To continuously place top 3 in untested events against guys like me is something to be said. I'm gonna get him in with me for some back and leg workouts this offseason and murder him, lol.

100% agreed.

Mike rocks!

[ironwill]

Sigh, steved, well youre a stubborn one, and so am i....What if someone is 10 lbs heavier on stage, and his bis are 3/4 inch larger, and his quads 1 inch larger, waist the same size, chest 1.5 inches larger...Would you still say its water and fat if he looked like flies should be hanging around his eyelids because he is so shredded??
I dunno duder, just cant/wont agree with ya ....
You say that someone starting out shouldnt be on stage, i disagree...I think after a couple of yrs and you have decent genetics, you can and should be up there on stage...Thats like me saying if you are less than 175 lbs, you shouldnt be on stage....Doesnt make sense....
I think the couple of months of muscle building cessation is made up in the couple of months following a contest diet in the form of rebound.....
Ah well, ill do what i do, and ill keep telling anyone to giver shit and try and gain as much as possible, but will never limit myself or anyone else to believe they may only build 2-3 lbs in a yr.....When they are seasoned vets, then they will know that a few lbs is all to expect, but you have to work hard @ that level to maintain your previous gains, along with trying to gain even more...Then she gets tough!!!
I dont use hamburger as an analogy of stacking on a bodypart as some do, i use the analogy of flank steak, hamburger is aerated, and fat within, flank steak is muscle, and it doesnt look that big at 2-3 lbs if imagining it stacked on a body....Much smaller amnt than the same weight in burger...And if that was all i had to look forward to in a yr trng approximately 255 times that yr, equalling 400-500 hours, let alone resting, cooking, eating, and sacrificing, id pull the pin....Thankfully that is not the case here....My girl made more than that this yr, easily....
BUT, i do know it will slow quite a lot in the next few yrs, but for now, im diggin it....A lot!!!:)

[steve_d]

I am not trying to come off as being stubborn (although I am at times).

As for competing, yes, a couple of years of consistent training, that could be enough for someone. But this sport is for the most part something we all started in our teens. (as in training in the gym) And someone with 2 years under their belt implies they are just 18 or 19...I am not saying they shouldn't for any reason compete. But what I do see is how this sport isn't necessarily something the average person should get into. I regret competing at that age. I should have enjoyed my university years, not spent it dieting for shows!

I guess maybe what I am getting from all this is that if you are capable of putting on 10 pounds a year, for 2-3 years in a row, you are nowhere near 'seasoned'. But for those of us who have been working out consistently and properly for 5-10+ years, you should be at the point of being what I would call 'seasoned' as in, you've put on the big gains already. Regardless of how many shows you've done.

PS: As for the 10 pounds on stage thing, with bigger muscle bellies etc, I can't really comment. It's probably not water and fat in your example, but it could be something flawed in the previous show in terms of carbing up etc. It could be a number of things really. And yes, it could be 10 pounds of pure beef. But if it is, no way will it happen the year after and the year after that and so on. Law of diminishing returns.

I am just going be the examples I threw out there. And perhaps those are all example of 'seasoned vets'...And perhaps I can consider myself as a 'seasoned vet' even though I feel like a youngin at 30.

THe other part to all this, is that it would almost seem that the sport we're in is 'easy' so to speak, in that if you bust your ass hard enough, you can gain the amounts you speak of. Also, if what you are saying is correct, then I should really think about hanging up my trunks, since I am as hard of a gainer as it gets!

[ironwill]

I am a newb personally...Trng fairly serious for 4 yrs, always wanted to do more, but i was working on my career (first priority), and chasing girls,, Now my career is further than i anticipated, and i have a good girl in my life , and BBing is just good ol fun, until the last month or so anyway before hitting a stage...And it actually turned my life around, and saved me from a different life i once had, thats why i hold it in very high regard.., and did first show last yr..This last year has been consistent, and i will definitely find it harder every yr as i go, plus im 40 now, so wont get any easier on any front...I feel like im 22....lol
Good discussion...Not even any swearing...lol

[Ron Partlow]

Ron, cool to see you joining the discussion..., would you say you gained 6-8 lbs of muscle per yr in your first few years of competition?? Have you ever gained 6-8 lbs in a yr?? How much was the most gained in your career in one year??
I also think the way one diets down definitely makes a difference also, in the end result....Maybe some guys try a different diet technique etc, then they may lose more muscle in his prep, than if he did a different style, One can have cortisol, or thyroid differences during prep, that would make a big difference in final result, BUT, one may have actually built that extra muscle off season, and lost more due to different conditions...Thats my opinion, anyway...???

Ya, that happens too. Guys come in at a certain range for years and then they kinda figure out their body and all of a sudden they keep a whack of muscle that they have been giving up unknowingly, and they shock everyone. Some preps are just way better than others. Also, it's contest prep....shit happens and mistakes get made. The body doesn't always do what you plan or hope it will. I think everyone, even the very best, have bad shows where things just don't work well. Then there are preps that feel "too easy" and you almost feel ****-up-proof.

I'm a bit of a different case than most people I know. I had already trained for 7 years before I ever competed. I'm genetically pretty skinny I think, so my starting weight of 138, compared to the 265 when I started dieting in 1997 for my first show is already a huge jump.

[Bbuilder31]

I wanted to thank you all for your valid input - having such great sources of information is not only helpful but inspiring. Reading your own personal experiences only motivate me more to push hard, and work even harder. I may not make the gains I invision, but its the thought - mind over matter that counts. Its what keeps one driven to succeed. I don't get disappointed because improvement regardless how small is still better than it was.

Next year, I still plan on coming with a vengence, the goal to come in more full, and more dry is key to my success - I have a year. Miracles I don't expect, but determination is there. Again thanks for everything guys, I respect all of your comments, and appreciate you took the time to share them. More often than not, thing are left un-said.

thanks for continually reading

Mike

[Bbuilder31]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs989.snc4/76288_459094333327_500878327_5251871_2353594_n.jpg

[Curt Griffin]

Hey Mike,

Don't know if you remember me but I competed at the IDFA Ottawa Classic as well, I came 2nd in the Open Heavyweight. I realize I'm a little late, just joined the CBB.com recently and read all the threads. You still waiting to compete next year or planing on doing a show sooner?


Curt

[Bbuilder31]

Hey hey Curt,

I am planning on doing IDFA again....either this summer of October, I have yet to decide. Since I remain leanish through out the year, I can start dieting 2 months out and should be good. Well welcome to the forum and feel free to hit me up anytime.

Cheers
Mike

[Curt Griffin]

Hey Mike,

Yeah I plan on doing the same if all goes well, had a few minor setbacks injury wise and I have to deal with chrohns disease as well. I had to ease off the gym for a bit but I do eat well all year and didn't fall apart too much and hope to compete this year at IDFA and probably UFE. Just gotta work on my routine as that is an added challenge that I wasn't honestly too prepped for during the Elite show in November.

Curt

[steve_d]

"Technically" I'm the exception to Steve's argument. In 09 I stepped on stage at 175 and won the MW's, missed the overall by a 3-4 judge's split and this year I stepped on stage at 192 and placed 2nd in the LHW's, so 17lbs of stage muscle in one year. But did I gain 17lbs of stage muscle in one year? NO, it means I f'd my diet up in 09, ate into too much muscle, came in hard but flatter and smaller than I should have been. My offseason weight from '09to '10 went from 220 to 233, so less weight than I carried to the stage, mind you I was much tighter at 233 than I was at 220. A slight alteration to your diet can easily make a 3lb difference on stage, not necessarily mean you gained "x" lbs. That's where I think the numbers get skewed with some guys, you don't dial in right one year, then nail it the next and don't sacrifice as much muscle and you think you gained stage weight when you really didn't.

3-4lbs natural gains of legitimate stage weight per year, for a seasoned competitor would be the most I can see anyone doing, unless the offseason caloric intake was super low and you started eating like a man. 10-12lbs juiced gains would be the top end of what someone could put on and still hit the stage as conditioned or even more conditioned than the previous year.
I was still a little flat in my second show and should have been closer to 196, but this is why I've acquired the services of one Mr.Pakulski to take me into Provincials next June.

Mike is a buddy of mine and in my opinion is a phenomenal natural bb, especially when you take into consideration his heart condition. I can attest to the fact that this guy is 110% natural, right to stage day. I didn't get to see him last weekend, but the difference from May 09 to Nov 09 in his dryness was amazing. Tighter than many guys I know poppin diuretics. To continuously place top 3 in untested events against guys like me is something to be said. I'm gonna get him in with me for some back and leg workouts this offseason and murder him, lol.

So this was an old thread, but it's fun to see what happens year to year. I believe you weighed in right at the cutoff this year, at 187, so probably similar on stage or maybe a little less after drying out even more overnight - so after a year, you showed up the same weight or less, but way leaner. How much leaner? probably about 5 pounds of fat/water leaner, and therefore another very successful year putting on muscle. But I should stress, this was a 3-5 pound muscle gain! And if anyone dares to say that this was NOT a good gain, then have a look at what a few pounds of stage weight muscle gain actually looks like in your case. huge difference.

Another example was Korilon on this board. Showed up similar weight, a little tighter, and again - a successful year in my opinion.

Point is...don't expect gains of 10-15 pounds in a year. It's not realistic, and will set you up for failure, or a fat and watery stage weight.

[BigGuns21]

So this was an old thread, but it's fun to see what happens year to year. I believe you weighed in right at the cutoff this year, at 187, so probably similar on stage or maybe a little less after drying out even more overnight - so after a year, you showed up the same weight or less, but way leaner. How much leaner? probably about 5 pounds of fat/water leaner, and therefore another very successful year putting on muscle. But I should stress, this was a 3-5 pound muscle gain! And if anyone dares to say that this was NOT a good gain, then have a look at what a few pounds of stage weight muscle gain actually looks like in your case. huge difference.

Another example was Korilon on this board. Showed up similar weight, a little tighter, and again - a successful year in my opinion.

Point is...don't expect gains of 10-15 pounds in a year. It's not realistic, and will set you up for failure, or a fat and watery stage weight.

I actually hit the stage about the same weight as last year, like 191.8 I think when I weighed myself sat morning. Keep in mind when I stepped on the scales at provincials the very first time i was 191 and I cut to 187 in 30 min in the hotel sauna, it was MURDER! So immediately after stepping off the scales I did a little rehydration and a probably took in 200g over the next hour, so I was back to 190 literally 30min after I stepped off the scale. But regardless, same weight yes, same condition? Not a chance, I was way more dialed in this year than sudbury, so I'd say a good 5lbs of solid stage muscle gain over the last year, so you are bang on...

[Bbuilder31]

Your shape was retarded this year Rob - amazing man. I am doing rather well this year, and just started my diet August 1st for the October show. I plan on coming
in even more dialed in than last year, and my legs have improved a bit too - I am hoping to dominate my weight class this year. We shall see.